| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party 04:44 - Feb 29 with 9074 views | Zapers |
Has she been a good girl, or a naughty girl, and forgotten to pay her CGT tax on the sale of her council house.
Without evidence I'm not convinced i believe either her, or Starmer;) |  | | |  |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:58 - Feb 29 with 1727 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:36 - Feb 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Completely agree. If it is an honest mistake then put your hands up and rectify asap. Kills the story.
Sadly with politicians, it is rarely the offence or mistake that does for them but the way they handle the story when it comes out. |
One of the points behind this story is not the immediate denouncing of Rayner, I'm sure most of the commentators on this (including Guido) know that this was an honest mistake - but, if Rayner says it was an honest mistake and rectifies it, this then allows all sorts of get outs for more shady politicians to say, when challenged, it was an honest mistake, just like Rayner's , thus getting the opportunity to keep bringing this back to people's attention as we get closer to the election......and if she doesn't immediately rectify it, more sticks to beat Labour with.....this is how it's going to be for the next few months I reckon...... |  |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:03 - Feb 29 with 1717 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:36 - Feb 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Completely agree. If it is an honest mistake then put your hands up and rectify asap. Kills the story.
Sadly with politicians, it is rarely the offence or mistake that does for them but the way they handle the story when it comes out. |
Funny how these 'stories' from years back suddenly emerge in the lead up to a general election. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:05 - Feb 29 with 1708 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:16 - Feb 29 by Zapers |
An honest mistake you think, from the deputy leader of the Labour Party.
Be careful, in a minute you’ll have Stokie asking what evidence you have to say it was “an honest mistake” |
Funny how you're all over this but not a word on the millions upon millions of pounds involved in actual deliberate and proven Tory corruption. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:12 - Feb 29 with 1691 views | Radlett_blue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:54 - Feb 29 by OldFart71 |
Where the need to start looking is the multi million pound contracts handed out for PPE, the Post Office scandal where both Conservatives and Labour spent 100 million on a coverup. Where HS2 is partly scrapped meaning hundreds of millions already spent on nothing. Where 15 million a day is being spent on immigrants in hotels. Where the Navy are questioning whether they may have to sell one of the two 3.5 billion aircraft carriers due to Hunt not putting anymore funds into the Armed Forces budget, but intent on giving sweetners in the form of tax cuts in the hope that the many voters who will revert back to Labour or just not bother to vote for a Party that has overseen 14 years of the Country in decline whilst everyone pays higher taxes. |
Indeed, lots of expensive mistakes made by past governments, whatever their political colour. But isn't this increasingly a fact of life wherever in the wrold you look?
And yes, that doesn't mean we should quietly accept it. |  |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:15 - Feb 29 with 1680 views | NthQldITFC |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:54 - Feb 29 by OldFart71 |
Where the need to start looking is the multi million pound contracts handed out for PPE, the Post Office scandal where both Conservatives and Labour spent 100 million on a coverup. Where HS2 is partly scrapped meaning hundreds of millions already spent on nothing. Where 15 million a day is being spent on immigrants in hotels. Where the Navy are questioning whether they may have to sell one of the two 3.5 billion aircraft carriers due to Hunt not putting anymore funds into the Armed Forces budget, but intent on giving sweetners in the form of tax cuts in the hope that the many voters who will revert back to Labour or just not bother to vote for a Party that has overseen 14 years of the Country in decline whilst everyone pays higher taxes. |
What do you call a thing where it's so obvious and so blatant and so widespread and we call it out all the time and yet we don't actually do anything about it?
It's a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes parable, yet even more unexplainable. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:23 - Feb 29 with 1652 views | Zapers |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:19 - Feb 29 by Herbivore |
She wasn't deputy leader of the Labour Party at the time so not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Can you spell it out please? |
And Boris Johnson wasn't even Mayor of London when he made the stupid racist comments about piccaninnies and water melon smiles.
Didn't stop people to continue bashing Johnson when he became PM
I'm not sure whether she was deputy leader at the time has any bearing on her ability to correct anything, if it needs to be corrected, now that she is deputy leader | | | |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:26 - Feb 29 with 1634 views | Herbivore |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:23 - Feb 29 by Zapers |
And Boris Johnson wasn't even Mayor of London when he made the stupid racist comments about piccaninnies and water melon smiles.
Didn't stop people to continue bashing Johnson when he became PM
I'm not sure whether she was deputy leader at the time has any bearing on her ability to correct anything, if it needs to be corrected, now that she is deputy leader |
Lolz. Good folk of TWTD, we have a new entry for the most classic example of false equivalence ever posted. |  |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:31 - Feb 29 with 1602 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 11:36 - Feb 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Completely agree. If it is an honest mistake then put your hands up and rectify asap. Kills the story.
Sadly with politicians, it is rarely the offence or mistake that does for them but the way they handle the story when it comes out. |
Doesn’t look like an honest mistake she doesn’t lack intelligence .
It is however the kind of thing that I’m sure thousands have done before.
You have to wonder how many man hours are spent digging for dirt to sling at politicians on both sides.
Best to hold her hands up and come clean. Will soon be forgotten by the electorate.
There is currently an unhealthy trend, attacking the individual rather than what they stand for. Starmer being a prime example. |  |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:38 - Feb 29 with 1578 views | DJR |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 10:58 - Feb 29 by DJR |
If there is a CGT liability here, the better thing would have been for the Labour Party to get advice to establish the position, and meet the issue head on (with an apology if necessary), rather than allowing Rayner to put out what could be a misinformed and misleading statement, thus forcing Labour on the defensive. [Post edited 29 Feb 11:04]
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I generally don't comment on speculative issues before the full facts are known but having started, I might as well finish.
I have sensed for a long time that those now in charge of the Labour would gladly be rid of Rayner (as Deputy) if they could. But she is in a powerful position because she was elected, and has tended to come out on top in past run-ins with Starmer.
This makes me wonder whether the fact that the Labour Party haven't got on top of things is deliberate, assuming there is something in the story.
The following two passages from a Mail article confirm my suspicions, and are not evidence of the control freakery with which those in charge normally operate.
The Labour leader's spokesman said he had 'confidence' in his deputy yesterday - but refused to say that the matter was 'closed' and referred all further questions to her office.
Asked whether Sir Keir was confident that she had paid all the tax that was due on the sale of her home, the spokesman again referred reporters to Ms Rayner's office. [Post edited 29 Feb 12:42]
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:52 - Feb 29 with 1528 views | Zx1988 |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:31 - Feb 29 by Pinewoodblue |
Doesn’t look like an honest mistake she doesn’t lack intelligence .
It is however the kind of thing that I’m sure thousands have done before.
You have to wonder how many man hours are spent digging for dirt to sling at politicians on both sides.
Best to hold her hands up and come clean. Will soon be forgotten by the electorate.
There is currently an unhealthy trend, attacking the individual rather than what they stand for. Starmer being a prime example. |
That's what I was thinking about it earlier - how many thousands, or tens of thousands, of people have done equivalent things (deliberately or not) with the end result of paying less tax than would otherwise be the case.
I do wonder how the Venn diagram would look if one considered:
a) Those calling for Rayner to be strung up from the nearest lamp-post
b) Those who complained that the financial support for the self-employed during the pandemic was based on declared income for previous years | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:04 - Feb 29 with 1490 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:52 - Feb 29 by Zx1988 |
That's what I was thinking about it earlier - how many thousands, or tens of thousands, of people have done equivalent things (deliberately or not) with the end result of paying less tax than would otherwise be the case.
I do wonder how the Venn diagram would look if one considered:
a) Those calling for Rayner to be strung up from the nearest lamp-post
b) Those who complained that the financial support for the self-employed during the pandemic was based on declared income for previous years |
Spot on. Nothing more than an error of judgement on her part.
Be nice to see a politician own up. | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:05 - Feb 29 with 1489 views | Herbivore |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:31 - Feb 29 by Pinewoodblue |
Doesn’t look like an honest mistake she doesn’t lack intelligence .
It is however the kind of thing that I’m sure thousands have done before.
You have to wonder how many man hours are spent digging for dirt to sling at politicians on both sides.
Best to hold her hands up and come clean. Will soon be forgotten by the electorate.
There is currently an unhealthy trend, attacking the individual rather than what they stand for. Starmer being a prime example. |
Lots of intelligent people wouldn't necessarily know the capital gains tax rules on properties when you marry someone and you both own a house. I'm not sure her being intelligent rules out the possibility that this was an honest mistake rather than deliberate tax avoidance. Given the small sums involved, it would be rather odd if she had wilfully not paid the tax given she was embarking on a career in politics where this kind of thing can come back to haunt you. | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:14 - Feb 29 with 1462 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:05 - Feb 29 by Herbivore |
Lots of intelligent people wouldn't necessarily know the capital gains tax rules on properties when you marry someone and you both own a house. I'm not sure her being intelligent rules out the possibility that this was an honest mistake rather than deliberate tax avoidance. Given the small sums involved, it would be rather odd if she had wilfully not paid the tax given she was embarking on a career in politics where this kind of thing can come back to haunt you. |
No but she would have been well aware of the rules when purchasing the property, you have to live there for a set period of time after purchase, otherwise you may be required to refund, on selling, any discount given.
Rules may have changed substantially since helped parents exercise their right to but 40 years ago. | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:30 - Feb 29 with 1427 views | Herbivore |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:14 - Feb 29 by Pinewoodblue |
No but she would have been well aware of the rules when purchasing the property, you have to live there for a set period of time after purchase, otherwise you may be required to refund, on selling, any discount given.
Rules may have changed substantially since helped parents exercise their right to but 40 years ago. |
That doesn't seem to be what's at issue here though. | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:43 - Feb 29 with 1400 views | Reus30 |
My two cents is that why is this even a thing when the majority of MPs are either sex pests, corrupt, deluded, stupid, inept, incapable and an embarrassment to the people they are meant to serve.
But for Angela.... I mean I would, wouldn't you. |  | | |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:52 - Feb 29 with 1387 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:03 - Feb 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Funny how these 'stories' from years back suddenly emerge in the lead up to a general election. |
No different than when Sunak's non dom status was exposed in the press during the Tory leadership election. That's the way of the world.
Although in this case the story has come about because a book about Rayner is being written. |  |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:56 - Feb 29 with 1367 views | Herbivore |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 13:52 - Feb 29 by GlasgowBlue |
No different than when Sunak's non dom status was exposed in the press during the Tory leadership election. That's the way of the world.
Although in this case the story has come about because a book about Rayner is being written. |
Slightly different in that she was still claiming non-dom status when the story broke in 2022. The initial reaction was to defend her right to that status (which legally she's entitled to claim). So not so much trawling back as highlighting a current apparent conflict of interest. | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:06 - Feb 29 with 1319 views | Radlett_blue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 12:38 - Feb 29 by DJR |
I generally don't comment on speculative issues before the full facts are known but having started, I might as well finish.
I have sensed for a long time that those now in charge of the Labour would gladly be rid of Rayner (as Deputy) if they could. But she is in a powerful position because she was elected, and has tended to come out on top in past run-ins with Starmer.
This makes me wonder whether the fact that the Labour Party haven't got on top of things is deliberate, assuming there is something in the story.
The following two passages from a Mail article confirm my suspicions, and are not evidence of the control freakery with which those in charge normally operate.
The Labour leader's spokesman said he had 'confidence' in his deputy yesterday - but refused to say that the matter was 'closed' and referred all further questions to her office.
Asked whether Sir Keir was confident that she had paid all the tax that was due on the sale of her home, the spokesman again referred reporters to Ms Rayner's office. [Post edited 29 Feb 12:42]
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I think Rayner is as thick of mince, but having her in the near meaningless position of "Deputy Leader" is an effective way of keeping the Labour left quiet, which is an important part of Starmer's "Tory Lite" strategy. John Prescott played a similar role under Blair, although he was way smarter than Rayner. | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:06 - Feb 29 with 1319 views | Blueschev |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 09:39 - Feb 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't seen Guido's version, but as I understand it from reading other sources, she was a council tenant. She then took advantage of the Tory "Right To Buy" policy, and bought the council house she had rented, making a profit of £50,000.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Millions of people got on the housing ladder by doing the same. Although I do understand that she opposes the policy. So a bit like Diane Abbott and private education.
However, to qualify for the right to buy scheme you do have to be resident at that address. And where it gets confusing is after her wedding to her ex husband, she claims that from day one they lived apart. Angela at her registered address and her husband at his. Which does seem odd. Especially as they had children together.
When their first child was born she put down on the birth certificate that her address was the same as her husband's and not the address she now claims to have been living at. Her neighbours at the address where she claimed to be living say that her brother was living there and they only ever saw her once, when son broke her window with a football and her brother said his landlady would be visiting them to sort out payment for the damage. They claim that she wasn't resident there for the period she claims.
So she has either avoided Capital Gains Tax by claiming the ex council house was her main address or she has lied on her son's birth certificate, which is also a criminal offence.
From a purely personal point of view, I hope this is just a silly misunderstanding. Angela Rayner has an inspiring backstory. Brought up in abject poverty by her Bipolar mother who could not read or write and gave none of her children any love, pretty much became a carer for her mother from the age of seven, had an abusive father, only had a bath once a week when visiting her Gran, got pregnant at school at the age of 15 and left with no qualifications. Her second child was born very prematurely and is registered blind. She could have quite easily fallen through the system.
Yet she put herself through college, became passionately involved in the trades union movement, became a Labour MP and after the next election will most likely be Deputy Prime Minister. She is the perfect role model to all young people from her background.
I really hope this isn't another political career that end in tears. |
If events occurred as you've just outlined then that's a pretty obvious abuse of the system which is pretty bad in my opinion. |  | | |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:10 - Feb 29 with 1307 views | Clapham_Junction |
I'm not so much bothered about the CGT issue (which might be an honest mistake if it's real), but for me this is more of a moral issue about RTB.
Social housing is a scarce resource and a lifeline for the least well off. Anyone doing RTB is well aware that the property they are purchasing is unlikely to be replaced, so they are creating damage for wider society.
If she wanted to be a homeowner, she could have bought on the open market (RTB is not only an incredibly stupid policy, but also a horrendously unfair one – why should someone who has already been lucky enough to get social housing then be doubly lucky and get a big discount on buying a property, while the poor sods who had to put up with private renting have to pay full price). And then there's the consideration that her husband also owned a property already anyway. Did she just buy it with the intention of later selling it to make money?
Amongst the series of tweets defending herself was one in which she said Labour would continue RTB with a discount, and unfortunately this is the final straw for me in determining whether I will be voting for the party I am still (just about) a member of at the next general election. |  | | |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:19 - Feb 29 with 1268 views | Herbivore |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:10 - Feb 29 by Clapham_Junction |
I'm not so much bothered about the CGT issue (which might be an honest mistake if it's real), but for me this is more of a moral issue about RTB.
Social housing is a scarce resource and a lifeline for the least well off. Anyone doing RTB is well aware that the property they are purchasing is unlikely to be replaced, so they are creating damage for wider society.
If she wanted to be a homeowner, she could have bought on the open market (RTB is not only an incredibly stupid policy, but also a horrendously unfair one – why should someone who has already been lucky enough to get social housing then be doubly lucky and get a big discount on buying a property, while the poor sods who had to put up with private renting have to pay full price). And then there's the consideration that her husband also owned a property already anyway. Did she just buy it with the intention of later selling it to make money?
Amongst the series of tweets defending herself was one in which she said Labour would continue RTB with a discount, and unfortunately this is the final straw for me in determining whether I will be voting for the party I am still (just about) a member of at the next general election. |
Yes, completely agree with you on all of that to be fair. Right to buy is a ridiculous policy, I know the Thatcherites love it but I've seen first hand just how chronic the shortage of social housing is and RTB has contributed to a swollen private rental sector that still remains poorly regulated and that also impacts on the affordability of homes for first time buyers.
Those who can get social housing not only benefit from cheap, secure rental accommodation, they get the added benefit of being able to buy it well below market value, thus compounding the shortage of social housing stock.
I know a couple of people who bought their flats via RTB and both now own two properties and rent out the flats they purchased through RTB. There's no doubt they were eligible for social housing at the time they got their flats and they stayed in them for the required amount of time, but surely a scheme that ends up with people becoming multiple property owners when those who aren't fortunate enough to access limited social housing can't even afford one property isn't really fair? | |
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:22 - Feb 29 with 1247 views | Zx1988 |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:19 - Feb 29 by Herbivore |
Yes, completely agree with you on all of that to be fair. Right to buy is a ridiculous policy, I know the Thatcherites love it but I've seen first hand just how chronic the shortage of social housing is and RTB has contributed to a swollen private rental sector that still remains poorly regulated and that also impacts on the affordability of homes for first time buyers.
Those who can get social housing not only benefit from cheap, secure rental accommodation, they get the added benefit of being able to buy it well below market value, thus compounding the shortage of social housing stock.
I know a couple of people who bought their flats via RTB and both now own two properties and rent out the flats they purchased through RTB. There's no doubt they were eligible for social housing at the time they got their flats and they stayed in them for the required amount of time, but surely a scheme that ends up with people becoming multiple property owners when those who aren't fortunate enough to access limited social housing can't even afford one property isn't really fair? |
Doubly so when so much of it, thanks to the generous proportions of post-war social housing stock, ends up turned into HMOs and therefore making even less of the private rental sector available to those who truly need affordable rental properties.
Take the Earlham/Eaton area here in Norwich, for example, which sits around the UEA. Why rent out a three-bedroom ex-LA property to a single family for about £900-£1,000pcm, when you can divvy it up into four or five bedrooms and charge students £400-£500pcm per room? [Post edited 29 Feb 14:41]
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:27 - Feb 29 with 1217 views | DJR |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:10 - Feb 29 by Clapham_Junction |
I'm not so much bothered about the CGT issue (which might be an honest mistake if it's real), but for me this is more of a moral issue about RTB.
Social housing is a scarce resource and a lifeline for the least well off. Anyone doing RTB is well aware that the property they are purchasing is unlikely to be replaced, so they are creating damage for wider society.
If she wanted to be a homeowner, she could have bought on the open market (RTB is not only an incredibly stupid policy, but also a horrendously unfair one – why should someone who has already been lucky enough to get social housing then be doubly lucky and get a big discount on buying a property, while the poor sods who had to put up with private renting have to pay full price). And then there's the consideration that her husband also owned a property already anyway. Did she just buy it with the intention of later selling it to make money?
Amongst the series of tweets defending herself was one in which she said Labour would continue RTB with a discount, and unfortunately this is the final straw for me in determining whether I will be voting for the party I am still (just about) a member of at the next general election. |
Despite all the flak it gets on TWTD and in the media, the SNP is the only truly progressive major party in Great Britain and abolished "right to buy" in 2016. [Post edited 29 Feb 20:09]
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| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:28 - Feb 29 with 1209 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:22 - Feb 29 by Zx1988 |
Doubly so when so much of it, thanks to the generous proportions of post-war social housing stock, ends up turned into HMOs and therefore making even less of the private rental sector available to those who truly need affordable rental properties.
Take the Earlham/Eaton area here in Norwich, for example, which sits around the UEA. Why rent out a three-bedroom ex-LA property to a single family for about £900-£1,000pcm, when you can divvy it up into four or five bedrooms and charge students £400-£500pcm per room? [Post edited 29 Feb 14:41]
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I live in an ex-council flat and my rent is approximately three times that of my neighbour who is still a council tenant. I know some flats in the block are being let out for even more as they are rented on a room-by-room basis (with the living room converted into one or two bedrooms). | | | |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:31 - Feb 29 with 1203 views | Radlett_blue |
| Angela Rayner, deputy leader of the Labour party on 14:27 - Feb 29 by DJR |
Despite all the flak it gets on TWTD and in the media, the SNP is the only truly progressive major party in Great Britain and abolished "right to buy" in 2016. [Post edited 29 Feb 20:09]
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I think the obsession with home ownership is one of the most destructive longer term impacts of THatcherism. She knew that if enough council houses were sold, she would be reinforcing a swathe of working class Conservative voters. THe Conservatives are still obsessed with keeping prices high, largely to keep their voters on-side & unfortunately hoem ownership is now so entrenched that it's near impossible to break this cycle, without a calamitous property crash. | |
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