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Trump - really, I mean really?? 08:31 - Jan 22 with 16132 viewsunstableblue

People are really flabbergasted and concerned this morning in the US. Is he really going to be like this??

Basically he is claiming 1.5million people for his inauguration, he is stating it's is ghe largest turnout ever. He is stating the media are lying that it was only 250k, and much lower than Obamas.

He won't even acknowkedge the protest movement - which was larger. He's basically p!ssed about this and is blaming the media. His press secretary has carried on the line and the attack.

But photos and importantly the Washington mass transit numbers prove the press news.

Trump is lying! Like he did throughout his campaign. But now he is president.

It is shocking. It is like a banana republic.

And to think there were muppets on here lauding him.
[Post edited 22 Jan 2017 8:32]

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:33 - Jan 22 with 2158 viewsgordon

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 09:47 - Jan 22 by bluelagos

I think so many people now get their news from social media rather than more reliable news sources, that he knows full well he can sprout sh1t and many will just lap it up.

It's become a new way of influencing voters...throw enough bollox out there and some people will believe it. We used to have dodgy papers reporting sh1t, now they don't even need to get them onside.

Still, bottom line is, he has promised jobs, jobs, jobs. If he delivers, he'll he hailed a hero. If he doesn't, he'll be another failure.


I think the point is to erode peoples trust in facts to the extent that when things do go wrong he can blame Hillary/Liberals/China/immigrants/Democrats and enough people will buy it to let him continue.

There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:37 - Jan 22 with 2122 viewsGlasgowBlue

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:33 - Jan 22 by gordon

I think the point is to erode peoples trust in facts to the extent that when things do go wrong he can blame Hillary/Liberals/China/immigrants/Democrats and enough people will buy it to let him continue.

There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'.


"There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'."

The same is happening here but because Murdoch and the Mail are going to get a good kicking out of it people of your political persuasion are not just turning a blind eye to it, they are actively encouraging it.

We have funds from the most notorious fascist in British history being used to fiance what you are complaining about in America.

It's a funny old world init?

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:50 - Jan 22 with 2100 viewsgordon

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:37 - Jan 22 by GlasgowBlue

"There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'."

The same is happening here but because Murdoch and the Mail are going to get a good kicking out of it people of your political persuasion are not just turning a blind eye to it, they are actively encouraging it.

We have funds from the most notorious fascist in British history being used to fiance what you are complaining about in America.

It's a funny old world init?


That's a pretty transparent argument by association fallacy you've offered up there. Trumpesque, we might even say.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:52 - Jan 22 with 2086 viewsNo9

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:33 - Jan 22 by gordon

I think the point is to erode peoples trust in facts to the extent that when things do go wrong he can blame Hillary/Liberals/China/immigrants/Democrats and enough people will buy it to let him continue.

There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'.


"There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'."

Why is it I believe this should read; we will selectively hold the press accountable
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 14:30 - Jan 22 with 2038 viewsgordon

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:52 - Jan 22 by No9

"There is also the more worrying aspect that he and his entourage are prepping the ground for trying to control the freedom of the press in the US - 'we will hold the press accountable'."

Why is it I believe this should read; we will selectively hold the press accountable


Good point.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 14:34 - Jan 22 with 2029 viewsDarth_Koont

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 13:30 - Jan 22 by J2BLUE

The press exist to make money. They aren't going to boycott his press conferences.

Just to reiterate my point from the last few months the democrats and media are partly to blame for all this for their insistence that Clinton was the nominee. Sanders never had a fair chance. It should have been Biden.


The press don't exist to make money per se. Never mind the public news services, they exist to satisfy needs.

Yes, there's a marketplace and commercial need but the need for an independent media has also been part of our democratic values for centuries. There are many, many journalists who still perform this role and haven't sold out but the problem is that overall it's been surpassed by a need for clicks.

When we let the news agenda be defined by clicks and mass consumption then we get the news (and politics) we deserve.

Pronouns: He/Him

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:36 - Jan 22 with 1966 viewsNo9

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 14:34 - Jan 22 by Darth_Koont

The press don't exist to make money per se. Never mind the public news services, they exist to satisfy needs.

Yes, there's a marketplace and commercial need but the need for an independent media has also been part of our democratic values for centuries. There are many, many journalists who still perform this role and haven't sold out but the problem is that overall it's been surpassed by a need for clicks.

When we let the news agenda be defined by clicks and mass consumption then we get the news (and politics) we deserve.


Didn't the Daily Mail editor, infront a commons Committee , tell MP's he didn't publish fact he published what his readers wanted to read? & they seemd to accept that.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:42 - Jan 22 with 1963 viewsDubtractor

Have you seen that that Kellyanne Conway chap has now stated that his press secretary was simply presenting "alternative facts" when lying about the number of people at the inauguration?

Almost 1984 type of language that!

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:44 - Jan 22 with 1951 viewsNo9

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:42 - Jan 22 by Dubtractor

Have you seen that that Kellyanne Conway chap has now stated that his press secretary was simply presenting "alternative facts" when lying about the number of people at the inauguration?

Almost 1984 type of language that!


&, more to come
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:51 - Jan 22 with 1929 viewsgordon

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:42 - Jan 22 by Dubtractor

Have you seen that that Kellyanne Conway chap has now stated that his press secretary was simply presenting "alternative facts" when lying about the number of people at the inauguration?

Almost 1984 type of language that!


Thing is, if Trump and his lot are as mind-blowingly stupid as they appear, it's terrifying. And if they aren't, and they have some nefarious hidden motive, it's also terrifying.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:08 - Jan 22 with 1897 viewsbluelagos

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 12:43 - Jan 22 by GlasgowBlue

"You can't lie in office, you can't make stuff up"

[Post edited 22 Jan 2017 12:44]


Whilst my page was refreshing I was thinking which clip of a politician lying you would link to. So many to chose from, though few as bare faced as Clinton.

Did you see the meme (?) of Hillary catching Bill's wondering eyes at the inauguration? Worth a Google if not.

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:26 - Jan 22 with 1874 viewsLankHenners

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:42 - Jan 22 by Dubtractor

Have you seen that that Kellyanne Conway chap has now stated that his press secretary was simply presenting "alternative facts" when lying about the number of people at the inauguration?

Almost 1984 type of language that!


Ignorance is Strength.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:36 - Jan 22 with 1839 viewsGlasgowBlue

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 16:36 - Jan 22 by No9

Didn't the Daily Mail editor, infront a commons Committee , tell MP's he didn't publish fact he published what his readers wanted to read? & they seemd to accept that.


i'd doubt that very much. Sounds like more fake news to me.

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:38 - Jan 22 with 1834 viewsGlasgowBlue

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:08 - Jan 22 by bluelagos

Whilst my page was refreshing I was thinking which clip of a politician lying you would link to. So many to chose from, though few as bare faced as Clinton.

Did you see the meme (?) of Hillary catching Bill's wondering eyes at the inauguration? Worth a Google if not.


I haven't seen it mate. Do you have a link?

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(No subject) (n/t) on 17:39 - Jan 22 with 1828 viewsBluetone

(No subject) (n/t) on 09:47 - Jan 22 by bluelagos



Tyrants build walls - Statesmen build bridges. His rhetoric brings back memories of Hitler's rallies.

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:39 - Jan 22 with 1825 viewsimsureazzure

If after four years he is responsible for less deaths than Obama, will he be awarded the Nobel peace prize?
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:45 - Jan 22 with 1802 viewsIpswichChris

I've been flabbergasted this entire election cycle.
"No way he gets the Republican nomination."
"No way he is elected President."

The sad fact is, as much of an imbecile he is - it has to be said he is at least brilliant in some aspects - in a evil genius kind of way.

Whether he personally believed what he was saying or not, he crafted his campaign on saying things that would win him votes. The easiest way he to do that, he figured, was to use hatred and fear.... And the ignorant masses ate it up. Even though he has basically already went back or ignored each of his pillars to get these people on his side, they don't care because they are ignorant to politics now just as they have always been. They were just riding the "Trump Train" because of "Yeeehaw Make 'Murica Great Again!"


"We are building a wall and Mexico will pay for it!"has turned into:
"They taxpayers will front the bill and Mexico will pay us back". (They won't)

"Lock her up!" Turned into:
"Hey, we won right? That sounded good when we needed to win but now we have won so that's that right?"

"Drain the swamp" turned into:
A cabinet with a worth 50x greater than that of Bushs' whom people said were too wealthy and/or connected to Wall Street.

The only things we actually know about Trump are that he played his cards correctly and that he only cares about his ego, his image, his brand.

I can't believe he is our President and Commander in Chief.
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:54 - Jan 22 with 1763 viewsWeWereZombies

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:45 - Jan 22 by IpswichChris

I've been flabbergasted this entire election cycle.
"No way he gets the Republican nomination."
"No way he is elected President."

The sad fact is, as much of an imbecile he is - it has to be said he is at least brilliant in some aspects - in a evil genius kind of way.

Whether he personally believed what he was saying or not, he crafted his campaign on saying things that would win him votes. The easiest way he to do that, he figured, was to use hatred and fear.... And the ignorant masses ate it up. Even though he has basically already went back or ignored each of his pillars to get these people on his side, they don't care because they are ignorant to politics now just as they have always been. They were just riding the "Trump Train" because of "Yeeehaw Make 'Murica Great Again!"


"We are building a wall and Mexico will pay for it!"has turned into:
"They taxpayers will front the bill and Mexico will pay us back". (They won't)

"Lock her up!" Turned into:
"Hey, we won right? That sounded good when we needed to win but now we have won so that's that right?"

"Drain the swamp" turned into:
A cabinet with a worth 50x greater than that of Bushs' whom people said were too wealthy and/or connected to Wall Street.

The only things we actually know about Trump are that he played his cards correctly and that he only cares about his ego, his image, his brand.

I can't believe he is our President and Commander in Chief.


Want some Niccolò Machiavelli quotes at this point of the discussion:

“it is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”

“I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it.”

“Everyone sees what you appear to be, few experience what you really are.”

Although it might be that the one he has ignored and that will bring him down is:

“There is no other way to guard yourself against flattery than by making men understand that telling you the truth will not offend you.”

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 18:19 - Jan 22 with 1711 viewsDarth_Koont

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 17:54 - Jan 22 by WeWereZombies

Want some Niccolò Machiavelli quotes at this point of the discussion:

“it is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”

“I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it.”

“Everyone sees what you appear to be, few experience what you really are.”

Although it might be that the one he has ignored and that will bring him down is:

“There is no other way to guard yourself against flattery than by making men understand that telling you the truth will not offend you.”


Agree that his pride will be his ultimate downfall. Think that's where he and Machiavelli completely diverge.

I still think the reason Trump won is because he has a lower opinion of his core audience (and human nature) than anyone else, and it's a battle ground he could expertly dominate.

Pronouns: He/Him

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 19:24 - Jan 22 with 1646 viewsWeWereZombies

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 18:19 - Jan 22 by Darth_Koont

Agree that his pride will be his ultimate downfall. Think that's where he and Machiavelli completely diverge.

I still think the reason Trump won is because he has a lower opinion of his core audience (and human nature) than anyone else, and it's a battle ground he could expertly dominate.


As Machiavelli said:

'Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception.”

“…he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived.”

“Men are so simple of mind, and so much dominated by their immediate needs, that a deceitful man will always find plenty who are ready to be deceived.”

“The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.”

“Of mankind we may say in general they are fickle, hypocritical, and greedy of gain.”

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 19:37 - Jan 22 with 1622 viewsEireannach_gorm

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 09:59 - Jan 22 by WeWereZombies

I think you will find China has already done so, Trump is just damage limitation for us (May at least is commencing that operation on Friday) but China are the players we need to find an accommodation with - it's not going to be comfortable but it is necessary.


http://www.economist.com/news/china/21715035-does-he-really-want-be-global-leade
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 19:58 - Jan 22 with 1590 viewsWeWereZombies

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 19:37 - Jan 22 by Eireannach_gorm

http://www.economist.com/news/china/21715035-does-he-really-want-be-global-leade


Interesting read, warming to hear a world leader quoting Dickens, chilling to hear the dismissive attitude towards judicial independence. I take the point that Xi will not be a 'leader of the free world' figurehead in the way that US Presidents have become accustomed to but China has become manufacturer to the world in part by stealth and nowadays by obvious design (I saw some of the One Belt/One Road in Kenya and Ethiopia last year and it is staggering in it's scale and does not look remotely green). The other factor I have become aware of during a recent jaunt around the Pacific is just how widespread the Chinese diaspora outside the PRC is (though no 'Chinese' pubs in every town and city yet) and that these people are often English speakers when it comes to business and can have quite a British set of ideals and values (sorry, I'm including the many virtues of Ireland in British here too, is there a better phrase for all of us from this archipelago?)

What is the view on Trump from Ireland? I've read that he is unhappy with your low corporation tax rate - does he want to give green cards to more Irish citizens and drain the workers from a green and pleasant land into the corporations of grey and forbidding North American cities?

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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 21:36 - Jan 22 with 1535 viewscaught-in-limbo

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 09:48 - Jan 22 by Barneycurley

CIL will give you a predictable reply

Russia to move front and centre

stranger things have happened


Why don't you wait to hear what I think rather than misrepresent me?

#toxic
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 21:43 - Jan 22 with 1524 viewscaught-in-limbo

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 09:03 - Jan 22 by lowhouseblue

oh right, so cil will be on later with youtube videos showing this. i don't care about the number of people there either. but to lie so casually and blatantly once he is in office is bizarre.


Hilarious that you post an online BBC article with a photo (which has no time stamp) as evidence of some point point you wish to make, only for you then to say that you don't care about that point but that I will post something from an online source as evidence of the same thing.

You seem desperate for attention.

#toxic
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Trump - really, I mean really?? on 21:47 - Jan 22 with 1499 viewsCotty

Trump - really, I mean really?? on 21:43 - Jan 22 by caught-in-limbo

Hilarious that you post an online BBC article with a photo (which has no time stamp) as evidence of some point point you wish to make, only for you then to say that you don't care about that point but that I will post something from an online source as evidence of the same thing.

You seem desperate for attention.


In fairness, I saw exactly that image on the live coverage, incidentally not through the BBC. Were my eyes deceiving me?
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