| MP's get to vote then on 11:21 - Jan 24 with 1000 views | Pinewoodblue |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:03 - Jan 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Typical Fred question.
Have you ever been to the Isle of Lewis? Have you ever worked in the EU? Have you ever lived and worked in America? etc etc. |
Or have you ever been to Cromer! |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:24 - Jan 24 with 994 views | giant_stow |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:17 - Jan 24 by Vic |
what happens if they vote against it? (Which could happen) |
May said in her speach: no deal is better than a bad deal - hard brexit here we come. Watch for the timing of the vote too - I'd imagine it will come right up against that 2 year deadline, leaving no time for renegotiation.
A complete an utter massive stitch up. [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 11:25]
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| Feckin too right... on 11:25 - Jan 24 with 987 views | flimflam |
| Feckin too right... on 11:08 - Jan 24 by unstableblue |
.. the 'Hard Brexit' deal bares no resemblance to what people voted for. And it was completely unconstitutional. Mail with have a field day.
Having said all that - and I know this is mad - we should open negotations with the EU immediately, stating if you reign back the federal Europe agenda, and tighten external migration further, we will go back on full Brexit. They'd bite our hands off, and we'd all be happy. |
There is not any other Brexit.
I voted leave and fully understood it would meaning exactly that. No bit part member ship or clinging onto any scraps on offer, a full exit from the EU. And I believe the majority of people who voted leave understood this too.
In fact I would say if we had another referendum now the numbers voting leave would be greater than 52% [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 11:26]
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| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:28 - Jan 24 with 973 views | CaptainObvious |
| MP's get to vote then on 10:44 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe |
I agree with the Lib Dems, let the people vote on the actual deal |
i don't really understand how this would work, the deal will be the one we agree with the eu, they are not going to offer us a variety to select from. |  |
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| Feckin too right... on 11:29 - Jan 24 with 966 views | Darth_Koont |
| Feckin too right... on 11:25 - Jan 24 by flimflam |
There is not any other Brexit.
I voted leave and fully understood it would meaning exactly that. No bit part member ship or clinging onto any scraps on offer, a full exit from the EU. And I believe the majority of people who voted leave understood this too.
In fact I would say if we had another referendum now the numbers voting leave would be greater than 52% [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 11:26]
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Absolute rubbish.
Even the Leave side were talking about exploring different models of access to the single market and other European apparatus post-referendum. |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:30 - Jan 24 with 959 views | Guthrum |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:17 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe |
If a majority of people can't agree on how we should change then we should stay as we are.... |
But then what about the original Referendum? |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:30 - Jan 24 with 961 views | itfcjoe |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:28 - Jan 24 by CaptainObvious |
i don't really understand how this would work, the deal will be the one we agree with the eu, they are not going to offer us a variety to select from. |
Come on Captain Obvious, it's obvious surely?
Agree a deal which is signed pending agreement of the people.
Put the deal to the people, if it is accepted then sign it, if it isn't then stay as we are |  |
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| Feckin too right... on 11:30 - Jan 24 with 961 views | usm |
| Feckin too right... on 11:08 - Jan 24 by unstableblue |
.. the 'Hard Brexit' deal bares no resemblance to what people voted for. And it was completely unconstitutional. Mail with have a field day.
Having said all that - and I know this is mad - we should open negotations with the EU immediately, stating if you reign back the federal Europe agenda, and tighten external migration further, we will go back on full Brexit. They'd bite our hands off, and we'd all be happy. |
The vast majority of people have no idea what they voted for, but democracy is democracy, so get on with it, I say.
Having said that it is the sort of thing that the general public should never vote on because they have no idea of the implications. |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:31 - Jan 24 with 954 views | itfcjoe |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:30 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
But then what about the original Referendum? |
What about it? If it acts as an exploratory referendum which then gives a proper choice to the people (when they know what they are actually voting for) then it has been worth it. | |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:33 - Jan 24 with 938 views | giant_stow |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:31 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe |
What about it? If it acts as an exploratory referendum which then gives a proper choice to the people (when they know what they are actually voting for) then it has been worth it. |
.... and wasn't the referendum was always explicitly 'advisory' - not legally binding. | |
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| Feckin too right... on 11:35 - Jan 24 with 922 views | flimflam |
| Feckin too right... on 11:30 - Jan 24 by usm |
The vast majority of people have no idea what they voted for, but democracy is democracy, so get on with it, I say.
Having said that it is the sort of thing that the general public should never vote on because they have no idea of the implications. |
How very condescending of you. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Feckin too right... on 11:37 - Jan 24 with 911 views | giant_stow |
| Feckin too right... on 11:35 - Jan 24 by flimflam |
How very condescending of you. |
He's right though - even GB, a politico, doesn't seem to understand what was voted on and importantly, what wasn't. | |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:38 - Jan 24 with 903 views | J2BLUE |
| MP's get to vote then on 10:36 - Jan 24 by WeWereZombies |
So, upside - we do live in a representative democracy after all
Downside - it's probably just going to make the Brexit process even more shambolic, but
Upside - Corbyn will be exposed as being at odds with the majority of his MPs and we may get a more effective leader of the opposition before the next General Election, but
Downside - the break up of the United Kingdom in the near future looks more likely
Interesting times, no? |
I have no issue with Scotland but they have far too much say for their share of the population. If they want to leave and rule themselves then good luck to them. If they stay they should accept being part of the UK means having a fair say but not being the spoilt child of the union. Before the vote people happily talked about a landslide vote in Scotland being key to keeping the entire UK in the EU but now it has gone the other way it is suddenly 'democratically unacceptable'.
I don't think they will accept a fair say so i'd prefer it if they took independence. I'd wish them well. I completely understand their frustration. |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:41 - Jan 24 with 893 views | CaptainObvious |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:30 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe |
Come on Captain Obvious, it's obvious surely?
Agree a deal which is signed pending agreement of the people.
Put the deal to the people, if it is accepted then sign it, if it isn't then stay as we are |
ah-ha sneakily trying to stay in. There is no option to stay as we are, we have voted out.
(I can't actually remember why i chose this username it was so long ago now) | |
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| Feckin too right... on 11:41 - Jan 24 with 892 views | Darth_Koont |
Of course, but we're talking about Hard Brexit vs. Soft Brexit. Not whether in more or less semantic, constitutional terms we are officially outside the single market when we officially leave the EU. | |
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| MP's get to vote then (n/t) on 11:43 - Jan 24 with 887 views | No9 |
| MP's get to vote then on 10:46 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
Also an important reminder to the government that they don't have the mandate to make this type of decision unilaterally.
Hopefully that seeps into their Brexit negotiations too so it becomes red, white and blue rather than just a blue Brexit. |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:43 - Jan 24 with 889 views | J2BLUE |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:30 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe |
Come on Captain Obvious, it's obvious surely?
Agree a deal which is signed pending agreement of the people.
Put the deal to the people, if it is accepted then sign it, if it isn't then stay as we are |
It wouldn't work. A lot of remainers would decide to reject it the moment the referendum was announced. | |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:43 - Jan 24 with 889 views | itfcjoe |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:41 - Jan 24 by CaptainObvious |
ah-ha sneakily trying to stay in. There is no option to stay as we are, we have voted out.
(I can't actually remember why i chose this username it was so long ago now) |
It's not about being sneaky - it's about ensuring that the wishes of the people, after they have been presented with the facts of what the exit will entail, happen.
Whichever way that goes, then there wouldn't be all this drama over it. If an actual proposal was put to the table and agreed then neither the Remainer's or the Brexiters could have any complaints surely?
Ultimately - it isn't a race - it's more important to come up with the correct decision than to rush it - whichever way that goes? [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 11:44]
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:45 - Jan 24 with 877 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| MP's get to vote then on 10:41 - Jan 24 by Swansea_Blue |
It's just confirming the process of how Article 50 needs to be triggered. May wanted to be able to do it without deferring to a Parliament vote, but the courts have said she has to seek a majority vote in Parliament.
The end result will be the same I suspect, as it would be political suicide for MPs to vote against the will of their constituents (although some will no doubt, especially in Labour where their leadership issues are preoccupying them), so it' a bit of a waste of time. Nice little earner for the legal eagles though. |
As you and others have explained, I'm wrong.
Fair enough. I'll admit I'm wrong. |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:46 - Jan 24 with 876 views | No9 |
| MP's get to vote then on 10:46 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
Also an important reminder to the government that they don't have the mandate to make this type of decision unilaterally.
Hopefully that seeps into their Brexit negotiations too so it becomes red, white and blue rather than just a blue Brexit. |
You are correct, this 'government has no mandate at all'
Regarding your second para, it is obvious they are out of their depth & just blowing £ billions of taxpayer cash. | | | |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:46 - Jan 24 with 863 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:11 - Jan 24 by BlueLikeJazz |
The number of people who seem to think that 'democracy is f*cked' by a judgement that *upholds* parliamentary sovereignty and the rule of law, is spectacularly depressing. |
As I said, I simply got it wrong | |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:49 - Jan 24 with 858 views | CaptainObvious |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:43 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe |
It's not about being sneaky - it's about ensuring that the wishes of the people, after they have been presented with the facts of what the exit will entail, happen.
Whichever way that goes, then there wouldn't be all this drama over it. If an actual proposal was put to the table and agreed then neither the Remainer's or the Brexiters could have any complaints surely?
Ultimately - it isn't a race - it's more important to come up with the correct decision than to rush it - whichever way that goes? [Post edited 24 Jan 2017 11:44]
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the wishes of the people was to leave the eu. that's been decided so any vote that has an option to remain is in effect a second referendum and that wasn't in anyone's manifesto, and then where do we go - best of 3, best of 5? stay or leave was all that was on the ballot so by all means debate and vote over the terms because no-one voted hard, soft, medium brexit, but any option to stay is just a remainer not liking the first result. | |
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| Feckin too right... on 11:52 - Jan 24 with 841 views | vapour_trail |
| Feckin too right... on 11:35 - Jan 24 by flimflam |
How very condescending of you. |
He's right though. Millions of people taking a stab in the dark. Brilliant.
But we are where we are. We should get on with it as quickly as we reasonably can. Problem is, we have a PM and her legal advisers with a botched attempt to do this illegally, meaning increased scrutiny and argument will accompany the bill that does go to parliament, probably slowing us down further.
Cameron followed by May. Horrendous. |  |
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| MP's get to vote then on 11:55 - Jan 24 with 832 views | itfcjoe |
| MP's get to vote then on 11:49 - Jan 24 by CaptainObvious |
the wishes of the people was to leave the eu. that's been decided so any vote that has an option to remain is in effect a second referendum and that wasn't in anyone's manifesto, and then where do we go - best of 3, best of 5? stay or leave was all that was on the ballot so by all means debate and vote over the terms because no-one voted hard, soft, medium brexit, but any option to stay is just a remainer not liking the first result. |
I personally don't agree - leave or stay was far too simplistic a question and without any real knowledge of what leaving (or staying) really entailed most people were voting blind.
If the government were able to negotiate a good deal then it will likely go through, if they can't then why should the people suffer because they were lied to at the start of the process.
Seems silly to do anything with haste with all this 'Brexit means Brexit' rubbish when it could, quite easily, be a bad thing for the country by the time we are doing it and obvious it is a bad thing to be doing. | |
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