| Squatters rights.... 16:37 - Feb 2 with 3665 views | itfcjoe |
....how do these work?
Pub company we do a lot of work for have a pub in Muswell Hill that they were starting a scheme on on Monday.
Tuesday night someone breaks in and steals some gear, and then by Wednesday morning there are squatters living on site. Putty is in all the locks and everything is boarded up and they are telling the contractor, and anyone from the pub to f*ck off.
Pub now has to go through an eviction notice which takes 2 weeks, which is the whole timescale of the works. Contractor (our normal role) is worried because when they start the job building is handed over and their responsibility. But how can you secure a building properly if it is has windows and doors?
Squatters claim someone else broke in and they noticed so they didn't break in so that is why it isn't a crime.
How can they not just be forcibly removed? It's a disgrace what some people can get away with |  |
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| Squatters rights.... on 16:42 - Feb 2 with 2243 views | J2BLUE |
Squatters should have no rights. It's not something I would do but if someone went in and removed them by force i'd completely understand. |  |
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| Squatters rights.... on 16:44 - Feb 2 with 2226 views | itfcjoe |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:42 - Feb 2 by J2BLUE |
Squatters should have no rights. It's not something I would do but if someone went in and removed them by force i'd completely understand. |
But then they'd probably end up in court for doing it! | |
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| Squatters rights.... on 16:44 - Feb 2 with 2226 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
Surely if they're in they must have broke in? I mean whether they put a window through or just turned a door handle it's still forced entry if you don't have permission to be there isn't it? |  | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:46 - Feb 2 with 2215 views | itfcjoe |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:44 - Feb 2 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Surely if they're in they must have broke in? I mean whether they put a window through or just turned a door handle it's still forced entry if you don't have permission to be there isn't it? |
Apparently somebody broke in for a theft and they noticed later on that night and were able just to walk in.
Very convenient, but onus is on pubco to disprove this which is impossible without CCTV | |
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| Squatters rights.... on 16:47 - Feb 2 with 2206 views | hype313 |
Force them to watch our previous 6 games on loop, they will be jumping for the windows in no time. |  |
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| Squatters rights.... on 16:47 - Feb 2 with 2212 views | badadski |
if there are no signs up declaring it is occupied or signs declaring private property then the tenure/ownership goes back to the public, permanently i believe after 20 years of non declaration also. Until ownership can be certified or re-established and signposted then we as individuals have access to all unbordered and unsignposted lands or properties for our own enjoyment.
i am not a lawyer but i won a parking charge notice for the land not being properly decared as private property which i was supposedly on by using the squatters rights law. if their is no proof they broke in which is the only way you can get them out in the mean time, then you are stuck with them through all of the expense and pain of an eviction court notice.
The only other way is if you can force them to want to leave, i will leave that one to you and your imagination how that can be achieved. |  | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:50 - Feb 2 with 2192 views | badadski |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:47 - Feb 2 by badadski |
if there are no signs up declaring it is occupied or signs declaring private property then the tenure/ownership goes back to the public, permanently i believe after 20 years of non declaration also. Until ownership can be certified or re-established and signposted then we as individuals have access to all unbordered and unsignposted lands or properties for our own enjoyment.
i am not a lawyer but i won a parking charge notice for the land not being properly decared as private property which i was supposedly on by using the squatters rights law. if their is no proof they broke in which is the only way you can get them out in the mean time, then you are stuck with them through all of the expense and pain of an eviction court notice.
The only other way is if you can force them to want to leave, i will leave that one to you and your imagination how that can be achieved. |
Oh it just has to have a sign up declaring it private property once building has started, and made sure it is properly locked up and sealed. maybe even worth paying for a nightwatchmen if the works only short term. cheaper than the eviction notice costs probably. | | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:52 - Feb 2 with 2179 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:47 - Feb 2 by badadski |
if there are no signs up declaring it is occupied or signs declaring private property then the tenure/ownership goes back to the public, permanently i believe after 20 years of non declaration also. Until ownership can be certified or re-established and signposted then we as individuals have access to all unbordered and unsignposted lands or properties for our own enjoyment.
i am not a lawyer but i won a parking charge notice for the land not being properly decared as private property which i was supposedly on by using the squatters rights law. if their is no proof they broke in which is the only way you can get them out in the mean time, then you are stuck with them through all of the expense and pain of an eviction court notice.
The only other way is if you can force them to want to leave, i will leave that one to you and your imagination how that can be achieved. |
Surely, if it went to court, it would be deemed reasonable to assume they broke in. | | | |
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| Squatters rights.... on 16:59 - Feb 2 with 2157 views | sparks |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:47 - Feb 2 by badadski |
if there are no signs up declaring it is occupied or signs declaring private property then the tenure/ownership goes back to the public, permanently i believe after 20 years of non declaration also. Until ownership can be certified or re-established and signposted then we as individuals have access to all unbordered and unsignposted lands or properties for our own enjoyment.
i am not a lawyer but i won a parking charge notice for the land not being properly decared as private property which i was supposedly on by using the squatters rights law. if their is no proof they broke in which is the only way you can get them out in the mean time, then you are stuck with them through all of the expense and pain of an eviction court notice.
The only other way is if you can force them to want to leave, i will leave that one to you and your imagination how that can be achieved. |
Gmpf. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Squatters rights.... on 17:01 - Feb 2 with 2153 views | badadski |
| Squatters rights.... on 16:52 - Feb 2 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Surely, if it went to court, it would be deemed reasonable to assume they broke in. |
If you can prove they broke in and not some one else you would not need an eviction notice which is only for civil orders through the courts but you could get the police to remove them. Until that can be proven then the Police cant legally do anything. | | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 17:05 - Feb 2 with 2143 views | badadski |
| Squatters rights.... on 17:01 - Feb 2 by badadski |
If you can prove they broke in and not some one else you would not need an eviction notice which is only for civil orders through the courts but you could get the police to remove them. Until that can be proven then the Police cant legally do anything. |
Its like in america in the films, they cant legally enter a closed property as their needs to be reason to enter, but if the door or window is already open then they use that "oh i heard a disturbance for reasonable cause."
Ofcourse the squatters broke in but with out any evidence - camera, CCTV etc then they will just say the door was open, no private property signs and no one living here so we have rights which they do. | | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 18:00 - Feb 2 with 2084 views | sparks |
| Squatters rights.... on 17:05 - Feb 2 by badadski |
Its like in america in the films, they cant legally enter a closed property as their needs to be reason to enter, but if the door or window is already open then they use that "oh i heard a disturbance for reasonable cause."
Ofcourse the squatters broke in but with out any evidence - camera, CCTV etc then they will just say the door was open, no private property signs and no one living here so we have rights which they do. |
Much of what you have said in this thread is at best less than correct. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Squatters rights.... on 18:29 - Feb 2 with 2021 views | sparks |
There is legislation to protect people from illegal and unfair eviction- so in this country, if you want to forcibly evict someone, you need a possession order.
Trespass is not a criminal matter.
Breaking and entering is- but the burden of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" so its difficult to pursue without clear evidence.
In fact, the last government brought in a law making squatting in residential premises an offence. But not for non residential premises. The squatters dont have "rights" per se, but are trespassers who are unlikely to have a defence to a possession claim, but you need the formal order. Often, you can get an IPO very quickly if you bring the claim within 28 days. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Squatters rights.... on 18:38 - Feb 2 with 2000 views | badadski |
| Squatters rights.... on 18:29 - Feb 2 by sparks |
There is legislation to protect people from illegal and unfair eviction- so in this country, if you want to forcibly evict someone, you need a possession order.
Trespass is not a criminal matter.
Breaking and entering is- but the burden of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" so its difficult to pursue without clear evidence.
In fact, the last government brought in a law making squatting in residential premises an offence. But not for non residential premises. The squatters dont have "rights" per se, but are trespassers who are unlikely to have a defence to a possession claim, but you need the formal order. Often, you can get an IPO very quickly if you bring the claim within 28 days. |
I appreciate the feedback Sparks, i like learning things and in fairness my knowledge was 6 hours self learned never to be taken as gospel, it was to avoid a parking charge on private land.
I am always happy to recieve new legal information and facts as you never know what can crop up. | | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 18:46 - Feb 2 with 1975 views | sparks |
| Squatters rights.... on 18:38 - Feb 2 by badadski |
I appreciate the feedback Sparks, i like learning things and in fairness my knowledge was 6 hours self learned never to be taken as gospel, it was to avoid a parking charge on private land.
I am always happy to recieve new legal information and facts as you never know what can crop up. |
I'm guessing that the parking charge is likely to have been an issue of the parkign operator being unable to prove that they had an entitlement (via the owner) to apply charges? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Squatters rights.... on 19:26 - Feb 2 with 1927 views | badadski |
| Squatters rights.... on 18:46 - Feb 2 by sparks |
I'm guessing that the parking charge is likely to have been an issue of the parkign operator being unable to prove that they had an entitlement (via the owner) to apply charges? |
Almost Sparks, i live in the flats opposite the train station and behind the barrier is parking opeator enforced, they did have the legal entitlement and rights given to them by the flat management compnay. They also had the legal signs up on the access drive and behind the barriers. The confrontation came from them being a new company and a lot of the residents were not informed, including my self as do not have an official space behind the barrier so actually park outside the front on the path after 6 pm as it is single yellow lines on the main road.
There is a patch of path outside of the front of the flats around 3 foot that ajoins the public footpath that was previously walled off so therefore not accessable to park on previously a few years back.
i was not aware of this originally and after cheking my lease and land registry they were right, it was actually showing as walled off originally a few years back. The wall had been ripped down leaving just a different colour pavement showing any difference between the public footpath and the private 3 x 8 foot bit of pavement that i had a couple of wheels on. This didn't stop them trying to ticket my car and saying the land was private.
i had to use the squatters rights to try and show the adjudicator that the signage round the corner on the access drive and around the underground car park did not correspond or was even visible to the land i was on out the front and since the wall had been removed there was now visible boundary or sign outside the font to declare the pavement at the front as private therefore meaning they were allowing public access to it by not being clear. if they were not clear and the signs were not directly visible i also stated i could not be agreeing with their contractual terms either by parking on the apparently privte bit of land.
I am not sure how much was right or wrong but i won my appeal? | | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 19:27 - Feb 2 with 1919 views | TractorWood |
Ask a property disputes lawyer. |  |
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| Squatters rights.... on 19:53 - Feb 2 with 1834 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I recently read that some £20 Bn. worth of residential property (largely owned by foreign/corporate investors) is currently left empty in London.....I will save my moral indignation for this end of the spectrum. The criminalising of squatting empty residential properties is why more business empties are now used by the increasing numbers of homeless. The figures of empty square meters of office space (for tax write off purposes) are astronomical....just look alongside the ring roads of southern commuter belt towns like Basingstoke, Maidenhead etc..
http://www.emptyhomes.com/
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/shocking-waste-of-7500-council-homes-lying |  |
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| Squatters rights.... on 20:16 - Feb 2 with 1784 views | badadski |
| Squatters rights.... on 19:53 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I recently read that some £20 Bn. worth of residential property (largely owned by foreign/corporate investors) is currently left empty in London.....I will save my moral indignation for this end of the spectrum. The criminalising of squatting empty residential properties is why more business empties are now used by the increasing numbers of homeless. The figures of empty square meters of office space (for tax write off purposes) are astronomical....just look alongside the ring roads of southern commuter belt towns like Basingstoke, Maidenhead etc..
http://www.emptyhomes.com/
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/shocking-waste-of-7500-council-homes-lying |
i wonder if marcus owns any of those properties? | | | |
| Squatters rights.... on 20:27 - Feb 2 with 1763 views | sparks |
| Squatters rights.... on 19:53 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I recently read that some £20 Bn. worth of residential property (largely owned by foreign/corporate investors) is currently left empty in London.....I will save my moral indignation for this end of the spectrum. The criminalising of squatting empty residential properties is why more business empties are now used by the increasing numbers of homeless. The figures of empty square meters of office space (for tax write off purposes) are astronomical....just look alongside the ring roads of southern commuter belt towns like Basingstoke, Maidenhead etc..
http://www.emptyhomes.com/
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/shocking-waste-of-7500-council-homes-lying |
Are you seriously suggesting there is an advantage in deliberately leaving a property unlet for tax purposes? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Squatters rights.... on 20:50 - Feb 2 with 1713 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Squatters rights.... on 20:27 - Feb 2 by sparks |
Are you seriously suggesting there is an advantage in deliberately leaving a property unlet for tax purposes? |
Yes, to many property is simply a means of preserving/growing wealth and the hassle of actually letting the space an inconvenience. | |
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| Squatters rights.... on 21:00 - Feb 2 with 1670 views | itfcjoe |
| Squatters rights.... on 20:27 - Feb 2 by sparks |
Are you seriously suggesting there is an advantage in deliberately leaving a property unlet for tax purposes? |
It's not tax purposes, but it's easier for super rich to leave it empty when in high growth areas. Rakes of it in London | |
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| Squatters rights.... on 21:02 - Feb 2 with 1657 views | sparks |
| Squatters rights.... on 21:00 - Feb 2 by itfcjoe |
It's not tax purposes, but it's easier for super rich to leave it empty when in high growth areas. Rakes of it in London |
Easier than letting for a profit?
I dont disagree there are empty buildings, held as investments.
The idea that its some sort of tax write off is odd though. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Squatters rights.... on 21:07 - Feb 2 with 1634 views | itfcjoe |
| Squatters rights.... on 21:02 - Feb 2 by sparks |
Easier than letting for a profit?
I dont disagree there are empty buildings, held as investments.
The idea that its some sort of tax write off is odd though. |
According to an estate agent mate up there and lots of contractors we use.
One tiler was doing work for a Qatari, and went into next door apartment wirth over £10m.....was empty bar a washing up brush. Guy had bought it as his Rolls Royce didn't fit in space so shelled out for this one and had already doubled his money | |
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| Squatters rights.... on 21:13 - Feb 2 with 1611 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Squatters rights.... on 21:02 - Feb 2 by sparks |
Easier than letting for a profit?
I dont disagree there are empty buildings, held as investments.
The idea that its some sort of tax write off is odd though. |
In so much as it is money 'invested' rather than income to be taxed it represents a certain appeal . There have at least been some moves in recent years to charge some % of business rates on long term empty commercial space, but there are still loopholes ! | |
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