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Thoughtfull little piece from Al Jazeera turning over the questions regarding America's political direction of travel, and thankfully free of the 'Godwin's Law' misnomer:
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
On a side note, it's a shame that Hitler's rise is the most accessible and agreed example but I think it's evident that in times of uncertainty democracies tend to gravitate towards demagogues (or those who reflect some populist tendencies).
You could argue that we did the same with Thatcher and her fairly extreme ideological views as a response to the oil crisis and the global recession that we had gone through but not really resolved emotionally.
If someone's pointing a way out of uncertainty then we'll latch on to it despite where we'd be heading and what we think we're running from. The government of the 1980s managed to damage our long-term social and economic structure (in some regions and industries fatally) at the price of more money in our pockets. Money that was going to get there anyway through the inevitable global economic upswing.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:35 - Feb 9 with 1462 views
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:19 - Feb 9 by Darth_Koont
Very interesting.
On a side note, it's a shame that Hitler's rise is the most accessible and agreed example but I think it's evident that in times of uncertainty democracies tend to gravitate towards demagogues (or those who reflect some populist tendencies).
You could argue that we did the same with Thatcher and her fairly extreme ideological views as a response to the oil crisis and the global recession that we had gone through but not really resolved emotionally.
If someone's pointing a way out of uncertainty then we'll latch on to it despite where we'd be heading and what we think we're running from. The government of the 1980s managed to damage our long-term social and economic structure (in some regions and industries fatally) at the price of more money in our pockets. Money that was going to get there anyway through the inevitable global economic upswing.
There was, in my opinion a further, and more deep-seated, element to Thatcher, which was the perception that Britain was no longer 'great'. We had not, and still haven't, come to terms with a changes that mean we no longer rule a quarter of the world. We don't have an empire, we didn't win WW2 single-handed, we never even 'stood alone'.
Until that is resolved and understood and accepted we're going to be held back by it.
I have an 84 year old friend here (Georgia, USA) who lived through Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia. He ended up in England, went to Cambridge and rowed for GB in the Olympics (1960 I think). He is extremely concerned, so much so, that he is currently in the Bahamas looking for a house.
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Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:40 - Feb 9 with 1447 views
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:35 - Feb 9 by factual_blue
There was, in my opinion a further, and more deep-seated, element to Thatcher, which was the perception that Britain was no longer 'great'. We had not, and still haven't, come to terms with a changes that mean we no longer rule a quarter of the world. We don't have an empire, we didn't win WW2 single-handed, we never even 'stood alone'.
Until that is resolved and understood and accepted we're going to be held back by it.
That's true. By the 70s we were pretty much back in the pack barely in the US slipstream and starting to fall away from Japan and Germany too.
No surprise we wanted a bit of jingoism and bravado (at the same as we put the boot into our fellow countrymen who we held responsible for holding us back).
Pronouns: He/Him
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Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:49 - Feb 9 with 1390 views
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:35 - Feb 9 by tampa_bay
I have an 84 year old friend here (Georgia, USA) who lived through Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia. He ended up in England, went to Cambridge and rowed for GB in the Olympics (1960 I think). He is extremely concerned, so much so, that he is currently in the Bahamas looking for a house.
I know Glassers is a Tory and all but you'd think he could paddle his own boat.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:35 - Feb 9 by tampa_bay
I have an 84 year old friend here (Georgia, USA) who lived through Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia. He ended up in England, went to Cambridge and rowed for GB in the Olympics (1960 I think). He is extremely concerned, so much so, that he is currently in the Bahamas looking for a house.
Now that is deeply worrying. I have to admit there are one or two things I dislike about the USA (maybe eighteen months of going to a school which was half navy brats, mostly from Florida too, did not help - sorry) but also many redeeming features. It is going to come to something if I have to give up any plans of visiting the States in future because it has descended into organised anarchy - surely this cannot happen?
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:53 - Feb 9 by WeWereZombies
Now that is deeply worrying. I have to admit there are one or two things I dislike about the USA (maybe eighteen months of going to a school which was half navy brats, mostly from Florida too, did not help - sorry) but also many redeeming features. It is going to come to something if I have to give up any plans of visiting the States in future because it has descended into organised anarchy - surely this cannot happen?
I've lived over here for 25 years and I'm leaving in March.
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Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 15:04 - Feb 9 with 1327 views
There is truth in the saying that those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it. But, on the other hand, events to not usually reoccur in exactly the same way.
Using terms like "fascist" are not entirely helpful. Originally, it referred to the authoritarian, nationalist, but economically state socialist regime of Mussolini's Italy between 1921 and 1943. In reality, Trumpism has little in common with that, favouring small government and libertarian capitalism. Even the nationalism espoused by Il Duce was outward-looking and cooperative, rather than the isolationism of Trump.
Neither is the President's islamophobe agenda anywhere close to the anti-Judaism (to the extent of favouring extermination) of the Nazis. While Bannon may yet prove to be Trump's Heydrich, he doesn't have the authority to carry out any "Final Solution" schemes.
Thirdly, the economic problems in the present-day US are nowhere near the severity of those afflicting Germany in the 1920s. Neither has the former recently lost a major war. Nor is America threatened by a rival political ideology, as Germany was with the communists - that leverage was liberally used by the Nazis on their road to power.
The office of the President of the United States of America does not carry the same authority and personal power as the combined roles of Chancellor, de facto President and Fuhrer which Hitler collected (especially with the country operating under emergency laws at the time). He had a movement on the ground able to physically intimidate and exclude rival legislators (internet abouse has some of the former, none of the latter). As we have seen this week, the other two branches of the US government are quite able and willing to defy Trump.
Complacency is not a good idea if one seeks to defend liberal Western values against the rise of neo-conservatism. But parallels with the plunge towards Fascism/Nazism can be overexaggerated.
Not really, no. We are living in hysterical times fueled by social media nonsense. Saying that I do hope Trump is impeached soon and a grown-up takes over.
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 15:07 - Feb 9 by Illinoisblue
Not really, no. We are living in hysterical times fueled by social media nonsense. Saying that I do hope Trump is impeached soon and a grown-up takes over.
Isn't the he 'grown up' in this particular situation likely to be the even more terrifying Pence though?
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:35 - Feb 9 by factual_blue
There was, in my opinion a further, and more deep-seated, element to Thatcher, which was the perception that Britain was no longer 'great'. We had not, and still haven't, come to terms with a changes that mean we no longer rule a quarter of the world. We don't have an empire, we didn't win WW2 single-handed, we never even 'stood alone'.
Until that is resolved and understood and accepted we're going to be held back by it.
Which is why the tories wanted to hitch up with a fast growing EU
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Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 15:52 - Feb 9 with 1123 views
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 14:35 - Feb 9 by factual_blue
There was, in my opinion a further, and more deep-seated, element to Thatcher, which was the perception that Britain was no longer 'great'. We had not, and still haven't, come to terms with a changes that mean we no longer rule a quarter of the world. We don't have an empire, we didn't win WW2 single-handed, we never even 'stood alone'.
Until that is resolved and understood and accepted we're going to be held back by it.
talking about your generation?
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Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 16:09 - Feb 9 with 1086 views
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 15:41 - Feb 9 by Raedwald_625
America is a different beast to W. European social democracies and has, in general, way stronger consevative tendencies.
Trump's win reflected the people's reaction to political correctness and does not tie in with the op.
Least we forget The Great Dictator:
One wonders whether those tendencies - which certainly existed all across Europe, not just Germany and Italy, in the '20s and '30s - were burned out by the experience of war and occupation. Something the USA has not experienced in that way for 200 years.
Memories which, however, are fading as the generation who saw those things departs. And so the hard right rises again (its voice and influence are heard, even if it does not attain power directly).
I'd say Trump's win is more a reaction to economic troubles and perceptions of being "left behind" than any nebulous notion such as "political correctness".
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 15:04 - Feb 9 by Guthrum
There is truth in the saying that those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it. But, on the other hand, events to not usually reoccur in exactly the same way.
Using terms like "fascist" are not entirely helpful. Originally, it referred to the authoritarian, nationalist, but economically state socialist regime of Mussolini's Italy between 1921 and 1943. In reality, Trumpism has little in common with that, favouring small government and libertarian capitalism. Even the nationalism espoused by Il Duce was outward-looking and cooperative, rather than the isolationism of Trump.
Neither is the President's islamophobe agenda anywhere close to the anti-Judaism (to the extent of favouring extermination) of the Nazis. While Bannon may yet prove to be Trump's Heydrich, he doesn't have the authority to carry out any "Final Solution" schemes.
Thirdly, the economic problems in the present-day US are nowhere near the severity of those afflicting Germany in the 1920s. Neither has the former recently lost a major war. Nor is America threatened by a rival political ideology, as Germany was with the communists - that leverage was liberally used by the Nazis on their road to power.
The office of the President of the United States of America does not carry the same authority and personal power as the combined roles of Chancellor, de facto President and Fuhrer which Hitler collected (especially with the country operating under emergency laws at the time). He had a movement on the ground able to physically intimidate and exclude rival legislators (internet abouse has some of the former, none of the latter). As we have seen this week, the other two branches of the US government are quite able and willing to defy Trump.
Complacency is not a good idea if one seeks to defend liberal Western values against the rise of neo-conservatism. But parallels with the plunge towards Fascism/Nazism can be overexaggerated.
Are there really parallels between the USA now and Germany in the 1930s? on 15:04 - Feb 9 by Guthrum
There is truth in the saying that those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it. But, on the other hand, events to not usually reoccur in exactly the same way.
Using terms like "fascist" are not entirely helpful. Originally, it referred to the authoritarian, nationalist, but economically state socialist regime of Mussolini's Italy between 1921 and 1943. In reality, Trumpism has little in common with that, favouring small government and libertarian capitalism. Even the nationalism espoused by Il Duce was outward-looking and cooperative, rather than the isolationism of Trump.
Neither is the President's islamophobe agenda anywhere close to the anti-Judaism (to the extent of favouring extermination) of the Nazis. While Bannon may yet prove to be Trump's Heydrich, he doesn't have the authority to carry out any "Final Solution" schemes.
Thirdly, the economic problems in the present-day US are nowhere near the severity of those afflicting Germany in the 1920s. Neither has the former recently lost a major war. Nor is America threatened by a rival political ideology, as Germany was with the communists - that leverage was liberally used by the Nazis on their road to power.
The office of the President of the United States of America does not carry the same authority and personal power as the combined roles of Chancellor, de facto President and Fuhrer which Hitler collected (especially with the country operating under emergency laws at the time). He had a movement on the ground able to physically intimidate and exclude rival legislators (internet abouse has some of the former, none of the latter). As we have seen this week, the other two branches of the US government are quite able and willing to defy Trump.
Complacency is not a good idea if one seeks to defend liberal Western values against the rise of neo-conservatism. But parallels with the plunge towards Fascism/Nazism can be overexaggerated.
Your breadth of reading on history, as always, shines through. One small point, though:
"The office of the President of the United States of America does not carry the same authority and personal power as the combined roles of Chancellor, de facto President and Fuhrer which Hitler collected (especially with the country operating under emergency laws at the time). "
In order to circumvent gridlock in the Senate and House, Obama redefined the role of President through the use of Executive Orders. As a bleeding heart lefty I saw things like "Obamacare" finding a way through and shouted "Hooray!"
Now I'm thinking "Sh!t!"
He has totally redefined the role of President. Now, he took several years of attempting to get the Care Act through Congress by negotiation and diplomacy. When all else failed, and with a substantial popular vote as President, he finally resorted to Executive Orders.
Within days of assuming office the Donald had taken Government by Executive Order as the new normal. Extremely controversial measures were passed into Law without any discussion or scrutiny by Congress.
The role of President was redefined by Obama, in extremis. With everything we know about Donald's leadership style and his self-perception as loved by the people for his straight-talking and decisiveness, and with the "Drain the Swamp!" rhetoric, I'd argue that "The office of the President of the United States of America" *may well come to* "carry the same authority and personal power as the combined roles of Chancellor, de facto President and Fuhrer which Hitler collected "
So at what real cost a few years of Affordable Care?
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