| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) 11:14 - Feb 24 with 6678 views | GlasgowBlue |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:33 - Feb 24 with 1205 views | Dolly2.0 |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 16:50 - Feb 24 by bluelagos |
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/when-jeremy-met-gerry-1-7106302
Not saying it's right, or that it wasn't a long time ago, in different times etc. But the tory press will make hay with photos like this. The guy was the leader, at the time, of a party when they were still advocating both ballot and armed struggle.
Like I say, I think the Tories will completely misconstrue the whole thing into a JC was a "terrorist sympathiser" and much of the electorate will buy it hook line and sinker.
Not supporting the Tory approach for one second, but they will be as ruthless as necessary to win. |
And it's the main reason I, and many others, hate politics.
It's win at all costs and not what's best for the country. |  |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:38 - Feb 24 with 1195 views | jas0999 |
Defeat at the next election? |  | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:40 - Feb 24 with 1194 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:33 - Feb 24 by Dolly2.0 |
And it's the main reason I, and many others, hate politics.
It's win at all costs and not what's best for the country. |
I didn't say it was right. I didn't say it was wrong. I said it how it is.
If the roles were reversed Labour would do the same. Did you see the leaflet Labour were putting out in Copeland saying that babies will die if the tories win? Or the bloke who emeailed all Muslims and said they would go to hell if they didn't vote labour?
Don't think this is one sided. | |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:40 - Feb 24 with 1194 views | Dolly2.0 |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 17:59 - Feb 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Because he is an easy target. A gift that keeps on giving.
If your main opponent has a leader who is easy to ridicule and attack in front of then general public then you ridicule and attack him.
It's not a case of wanting to win the next election, which is a given. It's a case of wanting to wipe his party off the face of the electoral map so that it takes them a generation to recover.
So you could take to Dolly approach and not attack him as he is no threat and win a majority with Labour the main opposition party with 200 seats or you attack him and see them reduced to 100 seats.
The tactics are the difference between a large majority and an absolutely massive landslide.
butbyou don't want to go in too hard now because they may replace him with somebody more competent. the juicy stuff will happen in 2020. |
You seem to go in pretty hard to me.
I hate this kind of politics. It's disgusting. It should be about what's best for the country not digging up dirt on your opponent.
Don't you ever feel a little grubby? I appreciate the real world is what it is but doesn't it sadden you? Do you ever wish it was just policy v policy, and the best one wins.
Gutter politics is the reason so many are turned off by it. And why the perception (wrongly) is that all politicians are self-serving arsses. | |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:42 - Feb 24 with 1190 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:40 - Feb 24 by Dolly2.0 |
You seem to go in pretty hard to me.
I hate this kind of politics. It's disgusting. It should be about what's best for the country not digging up dirt on your opponent.
Don't you ever feel a little grubby? I appreciate the real world is what it is but doesn't it sadden you? Do you ever wish it was just policy v policy, and the best one wins.
Gutter politics is the reason so many are turned off by it. And why the perception (wrongly) is that all politicians are self-serving arsses. |
I replied to the wrong post. See my reply above. | |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 21:30 - Feb 24 with 1129 views | connorscontract |
This was the moment when it became very, very apparent that he and his inner circle were utterly incapable of the most basic management required to lead a shadow cabinet.:
An MP, Thangam Debbonaire, was promoted into the Shadow Cabinet without being asked, was announced in a Press Release, then when she said "I can't do it, I'm about to begin treatment for cancer" they sacked her by press release without explaining it and without telling her, leaving her to have to deal with loads of journalists door-stepping her to find out the inside story on her bust up with Jeremy Corbyn so early in her front bench career.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/18/jeremy-corbyn-labour-mp-had-to-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/jeremy-corbyn-hired-and-fired-me-whil
The idea of him with real decisions to make terrified me. Now it doesn't because he can't possibly win. (I'm a Labour voter) But the idea of what happens to the NHS when people in a rural constituency vote in a By-election for the party which is about to close their local hospital rather than Corbyn's sh!tshow absolutely petrifies me. G4S and Serco contracts for minor and major operations by 2022... | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:17 - Feb 24 with 1099 views | m14_blue |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:33 - Feb 24 by Dolly2.0 |
And it's the main reason I, and many others, hate politics.
It's win at all costs and not what's best for the country. |
But if labour want to do what's best for the country they have to win an election first.
This government is barely competent, truly horrible and taking the country ever further to the right, yet they are guaranteed an increased majority if Corbyn remains.
You (and I) might not like that fact but it's painfully obvious. | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:19 - Feb 24 with 1094 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 21:30 - Feb 24 by connorscontract |
This was the moment when it became very, very apparent that he and his inner circle were utterly incapable of the most basic management required to lead a shadow cabinet.:
An MP, Thangam Debbonaire, was promoted into the Shadow Cabinet without being asked, was announced in a Press Release, then when she said "I can't do it, I'm about to begin treatment for cancer" they sacked her by press release without explaining it and without telling her, leaving her to have to deal with loads of journalists door-stepping her to find out the inside story on her bust up with Jeremy Corbyn so early in her front bench career.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/18/jeremy-corbyn-labour-mp-had-to-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/jeremy-corbyn-hired-and-fired-me-whil
The idea of him with real decisions to make terrified me. Now it doesn't because he can't possibly win. (I'm a Labour voter) But the idea of what happens to the NHS when people in a rural constituency vote in a By-election for the party which is about to close their local hospital rather than Corbyn's sh!tshow absolutely petrifies me. G4S and Serco contracts for minor and major operations by 2022... |
The turkeys are voting for Christmas ! |  |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:24 - Feb 24 with 1095 views | Clapham_Junction |
People were turned against Corbyn from the start by the much of the media, whose vitriol has resulted in a situation where many people have an almost Pavlovianesque negative response to him without even bothering to look at what he actually stands for (the segment Channel 4 news did in Guildford where they presented voters with his policies but not mentioning his name was very telling). I'm sure Dacre et al are patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, even if Corbyn goes, I can't see it being any different for his replacement. Miliband was slaughtered at every opportunity, as was Brown. Unless they put Jacob Rees-Mogg in charge, nothing will change.
With regards to Copeland, it really is very depressing. We seem to have reached a situation where the years of meda vitriol against Labour have resulted in a situation where some people have been persuaded to do the electoral equivalent of shooting themselves in the face. The saddest thing is that I'm really not sure how we can get out of this mess given the control of the media by Murdoch et al.
One of the most interesting stats (for me at least) from the 2015 general election was the fact that the Labour vote was positively correlated with education level whereas the Tory vote was the opposite, contrary to what you'd expect historically. I don't think this is an intelligence issue, but more about critical thinking and the ability to see through the lies and misleading stories from the press. |  | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:28 - Feb 24 with 1080 views | bournemouthblue |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 11:21 - Feb 24 by nrb1985 |
He won't.
He's a Marxist who believes that social revolution comes from the grass roots and on the streets. Therefore being in power is not key to his agenda.
Thus, this result is unlikely to deter him at all. |
The problem in that sense is the assimilation of Labour by the moderates who are often not from their traditional working class roots
That's why Labour have a disconnect from their traditional voters
The Tories may be jovial currently but as Brexit unfolds, they will begin to look worse and worse, they are the party who took us into this unnecessary scenario after all |  |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:04 - Feb 25 with 1002 views | jimmyvet |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:24 - Feb 24 by Clapham_Junction |
People were turned against Corbyn from the start by the much of the media, whose vitriol has resulted in a situation where many people have an almost Pavlovianesque negative response to him without even bothering to look at what he actually stands for (the segment Channel 4 news did in Guildford where they presented voters with his policies but not mentioning his name was very telling). I'm sure Dacre et al are patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, even if Corbyn goes, I can't see it being any different for his replacement. Miliband was slaughtered at every opportunity, as was Brown. Unless they put Jacob Rees-Mogg in charge, nothing will change.
With regards to Copeland, it really is very depressing. We seem to have reached a situation where the years of meda vitriol against Labour have resulted in a situation where some people have been persuaded to do the electoral equivalent of shooting themselves in the face. The saddest thing is that I'm really not sure how we can get out of this mess given the control of the media by Murdoch et al.
One of the most interesting stats (for me at least) from the 2015 general election was the fact that the Labour vote was positively correlated with education level whereas the Tory vote was the opposite, contrary to what you'd expect historically. I don't think this is an intelligence issue, but more about critical thinking and the ability to see through the lies and misleading stories from the press. |
It's the press....yes your right the voters are thick and don't understand what a grrat leader and visionary Corbyn actually is and what a great team he has around him.....you are a typical delusional left leaning individual who blames everyone and can't understand that Corbyns view of the world is completely out of touch with the vast majority of hard working British people and the polls agree with my view and not yours thank goodness | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:24 - Feb 25 with 986 views | giant_stow |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:24 - Feb 24 by Clapham_Junction |
People were turned against Corbyn from the start by the much of the media, whose vitriol has resulted in a situation where many people have an almost Pavlovianesque negative response to him without even bothering to look at what he actually stands for (the segment Channel 4 news did in Guildford where they presented voters with his policies but not mentioning his name was very telling). I'm sure Dacre et al are patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, even if Corbyn goes, I can't see it being any different for his replacement. Miliband was slaughtered at every opportunity, as was Brown. Unless they put Jacob Rees-Mogg in charge, nothing will change.
With regards to Copeland, it really is very depressing. We seem to have reached a situation where the years of meda vitriol against Labour have resulted in a situation where some people have been persuaded to do the electoral equivalent of shooting themselves in the face. The saddest thing is that I'm really not sure how we can get out of this mess given the control of the media by Murdoch et al.
One of the most interesting stats (for me at least) from the 2015 general election was the fact that the Labour vote was positively correlated with education level whereas the Tory vote was the opposite, contrary to what you'd expect historically. I don't think this is an intelligence issue, but more about critical thinking and the ability to see through the lies and misleading stories from the press. |
The press has been attacking labour all my life (42) so nothing's changed there. How does your theory explain Tony blair's time away? |  |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:26 - Feb 25 with 986 views | sparks |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:24 - Feb 24 by Clapham_Junction |
People were turned against Corbyn from the start by the much of the media, whose vitriol has resulted in a situation where many people have an almost Pavlovianesque negative response to him without even bothering to look at what he actually stands for (the segment Channel 4 news did in Guildford where they presented voters with his policies but not mentioning his name was very telling). I'm sure Dacre et al are patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, even if Corbyn goes, I can't see it being any different for his replacement. Miliband was slaughtered at every opportunity, as was Brown. Unless they put Jacob Rees-Mogg in charge, nothing will change.
With regards to Copeland, it really is very depressing. We seem to have reached a situation where the years of meda vitriol against Labour have resulted in a situation where some people have been persuaded to do the electoral equivalent of shooting themselves in the face. The saddest thing is that I'm really not sure how we can get out of this mess given the control of the media by Murdoch et al.
One of the most interesting stats (for me at least) from the 2015 general election was the fact that the Labour vote was positively correlated with education level whereas the Tory vote was the opposite, contrary to what you'd expect historically. I don't think this is an intelligence issue, but more about critical thinking and the ability to see through the lies and misleading stories from the press. |
Its not the media- the media simply reflected the views of their consumers, who quite reasonably saw Corbyn as an old fashioned dogmatic, hard left rebel type. Its absolutely about what he stands for- which is ideology over reality, rebellion over pragmatism, principle over economy. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:29 - Feb 25 with 976 views | giant_stow |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:26 - Feb 25 by sparks |
Its not the media- the media simply reflected the views of their consumers, who quite reasonably saw Corbyn as an old fashioned dogmatic, hard left rebel type. Its absolutely about what he stands for- which is ideology over reality, rebellion over pragmatism, principle over economy. |
This is good from the labour bashing guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/24/copeland-byelection-jeremy-corb | |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:35 - Feb 25 with 970 views | brogansnose |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:24 - Feb 24 by Clapham_Junction |
People were turned against Corbyn from the start by the much of the media, whose vitriol has resulted in a situation where many people have an almost Pavlovianesque negative response to him without even bothering to look at what he actually stands for (the segment Channel 4 news did in Guildford where they presented voters with his policies but not mentioning his name was very telling). I'm sure Dacre et al are patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, even if Corbyn goes, I can't see it being any different for his replacement. Miliband was slaughtered at every opportunity, as was Brown. Unless they put Jacob Rees-Mogg in charge, nothing will change.
With regards to Copeland, it really is very depressing. We seem to have reached a situation where the years of meda vitriol against Labour have resulted in a situation where some people have been persuaded to do the electoral equivalent of shooting themselves in the face. The saddest thing is that I'm really not sure how we can get out of this mess given the control of the media by Murdoch et al.
One of the most interesting stats (for me at least) from the 2015 general election was the fact that the Labour vote was positively correlated with education level whereas the Tory vote was the opposite, contrary to what you'd expect historically. I don't think this is an intelligence issue, but more about critical thinking and the ability to see through the lies and misleading stories from the press. |
Has the media presented Labour policies and leaders in a bad light ? Very possibly yes and the Miliband bacon roll episode was appalling but this hasn't stopped leaders like Brown scoring own goals. As for Corbyn, clealy the media don't like him but neither does the bulk of the country and they are picking up on the fact that he has no empathy and connection with his 'core vote' and is a rubbish leader. Funny old game politics when things are going badly, from whatever shade of the policical spectrum, that the media gets the blame and its all a smear campaign.
Meanwhile you keep on blaming the electorate for their lack of ability to be critical of the media and not seeing how wonderful Labour policies are. You keep on talking down to voters and prescribing what's best for them rather than talking with them and actually listening. |  | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:41 - Feb 25 with 967 views | jimmyvet |
Thats the thing......the vast majority of 'normal' working people in a strong labour seat since time began would rather vote for the party that is cutting back beds at its local hospital than vote for a party led by a man who is so alien and detached to the working class man ....never mind at least he has his momentum backers to keep feeding him delusional drivel as they both hurtle towards political oblivion.... | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 09:43 - Feb 25 with 934 views | Dolly2.0 |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 18:40 - Feb 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I didn't say it was right. I didn't say it was wrong. I said it how it is.
If the roles were reversed Labour would do the same. Did you see the leaflet Labour were putting out in Copeland saying that babies will die if the tories win? Or the bloke who emeailed all Muslims and said they would go to hell if they didn't vote labour?
Don't think this is one sided. |
I suppose the "babies will die" one could be true but the Muslims going to hell one is disgraceful. | |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 10:07 - Feb 25 with 919 views | lowhouseblue |
you are wilfully misrepresenting her words. what she is clearly saying is that the candidate was not at fault and did incredibly well in the circumstances; the crushing defeat is entirely due to the party being utterly adrift in the national polls which is a result of corbyn's incompetence and extreme unpopularity.
any other interpretation of her words can only be intended to make her look very stupid. [Post edited 25 Feb 2017 10:12]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 10:10 - Feb 25 with 906 views | lowhouseblue |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 22:24 - Feb 24 by Clapham_Junction |
People were turned against Corbyn from the start by the much of the media, whose vitriol has resulted in a situation where many people have an almost Pavlovianesque negative response to him without even bothering to look at what he actually stands for (the segment Channel 4 news did in Guildford where they presented voters with his policies but not mentioning his name was very telling). I'm sure Dacre et al are patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, even if Corbyn goes, I can't see it being any different for his replacement. Miliband was slaughtered at every opportunity, as was Brown. Unless they put Jacob Rees-Mogg in charge, nothing will change.
With regards to Copeland, it really is very depressing. We seem to have reached a situation where the years of meda vitriol against Labour have resulted in a situation where some people have been persuaded to do the electoral equivalent of shooting themselves in the face. The saddest thing is that I'm really not sure how we can get out of this mess given the control of the media by Murdoch et al.
One of the most interesting stats (for me at least) from the 2015 general election was the fact that the Labour vote was positively correlated with education level whereas the Tory vote was the opposite, contrary to what you'd expect historically. I don't think this is an intelligence issue, but more about critical thinking and the ability to see through the lies and misleading stories from the press. |
so you're saying he's a victim of the media and fake news. i understand that's quite a fashionable way of dismissing inconvenient stuff. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 12:46 - Feb 25 with 842 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:24 - Feb 25 by giant_stow |
The press has been attacking labour all my life (42) so nothing's changed there. How does your theory explain Tony blair's time away? |
Blair was supported by the Sun and I believe even briefly by the Mail. Can you see this happening to any Labour MP at present?
It also seems to me that the level of lies and misleading information in the press has increased in the past 20 years or so, pushing more people to vote in way that is perhaps not in their best interests. | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 12:47 - Feb 25 with 840 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 10:10 - Feb 25 by lowhouseblue |
so you're saying he's a victim of the media and fake news. i understand that's quite a fashionable way of dismissing inconvenient stuff. |
He's obviously not a great party leader, but he is undoubtedly a victim of the media - I'm not sure how anyone can possibly deny that. | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 12:56 - Feb 25 with 825 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 08:35 - Feb 25 by brogansnose |
Has the media presented Labour policies and leaders in a bad light ? Very possibly yes and the Miliband bacon roll episode was appalling but this hasn't stopped leaders like Brown scoring own goals. As for Corbyn, clealy the media don't like him but neither does the bulk of the country and they are picking up on the fact that he has no empathy and connection with his 'core vote' and is a rubbish leader. Funny old game politics when things are going badly, from whatever shade of the policical spectrum, that the media gets the blame and its all a smear campaign.
Meanwhile you keep on blaming the electorate for their lack of ability to be critical of the media and not seeing how wonderful Labour policies are. You keep on talking down to voters and prescribing what's best for them rather than talking with them and actually listening. |
But why doesn't the bulk of the country like him? Not that many people would have heard of him outside of London before he joined the leadership race. People only dislike him because of how he's been portrayed. As for not having empathy with his 'core vote', I know it's fashionable to assume Islington is a borough full of champagne socialists, but it's actually not very well off. His constituency has the fifth highest level of child poverty in the UK.
He is a rubbish leader, but he had been assassinated by the press long before that became obvious.
I'm not actually a Labour voter btw. | | | |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 13:03 - Feb 25 with 810 views | sparks |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 12:56 - Feb 25 by Clapham_Junction |
But why doesn't the bulk of the country like him? Not that many people would have heard of him outside of London before he joined the leadership race. People only dislike him because of how he's been portrayed. As for not having empathy with his 'core vote', I know it's fashionable to assume Islington is a borough full of champagne socialists, but it's actually not very well off. His constituency has the fifth highest level of child poverty in the UK.
He is a rubbish leader, but he had been assassinated by the press long before that became obvious.
I'm not actually a Labour voter btw. |
No- its because of his history and what he stands for, and its resonances with old hard left labour dogma, strikes, union firebrands etc | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 13:23 - Feb 25 with 781 views | brogansnose |
| What will it take for Corbyn to fall on his sword? (n/t) on 12:56 - Feb 25 by Clapham_Junction |
But why doesn't the bulk of the country like him? Not that many people would have heard of him outside of London before he joined the leadership race. People only dislike him because of how he's been portrayed. As for not having empathy with his 'core vote', I know it's fashionable to assume Islington is a borough full of champagne socialists, but it's actually not very well off. His constituency has the fifth highest level of child poverty in the UK.
He is a rubbish leader, but he had been assassinated by the press long before that became obvious.
I'm not actually a Labour voter btw. |
He's the leader of the second biggest political party in the country so he's going to be under a lot of scrutiny from the media and thus far they have been writing and doing articles about how woeful his performance has been. Its down to him. As for his 'core' support, I'm not going on about Islington, but countrywide.
Anyway, where are you in Clapham Junction ? I used to live on Battersea Rise. | | | |
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