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So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 23:11 - Mar 21 by gtsb1966
As Truce has said Rommy here's a wicki piece on Winnie Mandela. A controversial activist, she remains popular among her supporters, who refer to her as the 'Mother of the Nation', yet reviled by others after the South African Truth and Reconciliation commission found that she had personally been responsible for the murder, torture, abduction and assault of numerous men, women and children, as well as indirectly responsible for an even larger number of such crimes.[5]
Will have a look later. Cheers
Just watching United 93. Seen it before - great film
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 21:54 - Mar 21 by Ryorry
I know, but other options than murdering civilians in cold blood & without any warning were available, as was eventually proved.
excerpt from Wikipedia on the foundation of the state of Israel.
"After World War II, Britain found itself in intense conflict with the Jewish community over Jewish immigration limits, as well as continued conflict with the Arab community over limit levels. The Haganah joined Irgun and Lehi in an armed struggle against British rule. At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Jewish Holocaust survivors and refugees sought a new life far from their destroyed communities in Europe. The Yishuv attempted to bring these refugees to Palestine but many were turned away or rounded up and placed in detention camps in Atlit and Cyprus by the British.
On 22 July 1946, Irgun attacked the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. A total of 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured. The hotel was the site of the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and the Headquarters of the British Armed Forces in Palestine and Transjordan. The attack initially had the approval of the Haganah. It was conceived as a response to Operation Agatha (a series of widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, conducted by the British authorities) and was the deadliest directed at the British during the Mandate era. It was characterized as one of the "most lethal terrorist incidents of the twentieth century." In 1947, the British government announced it would withdraw from Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews."
Terrorism, like crime, DOES pay.
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So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 00:11 - Mar 22 with 1210 views
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 23:50 - Mar 21 by Eireannach_gorm
excerpt from Wikipedia on the foundation of the state of Israel.
"After World War II, Britain found itself in intense conflict with the Jewish community over Jewish immigration limits, as well as continued conflict with the Arab community over limit levels. The Haganah joined Irgun and Lehi in an armed struggle against British rule. At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Jewish Holocaust survivors and refugees sought a new life far from their destroyed communities in Europe. The Yishuv attempted to bring these refugees to Palestine but many were turned away or rounded up and placed in detention camps in Atlit and Cyprus by the British.
On 22 July 1946, Irgun attacked the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. A total of 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured. The hotel was the site of the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and the Headquarters of the British Armed Forces in Palestine and Transjordan. The attack initially had the approval of the Haganah. It was conceived as a response to Operation Agatha (a series of widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, conducted by the British authorities) and was the deadliest directed at the British during the Mandate era. It was characterized as one of the "most lethal terrorist incidents of the twentieth century." In 1947, the British government announced it would withdraw from Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews."
Terrorism, like crime, DOES pay.
It may have escaped your attention, but I was talking about M. McGuinness and N. Ireland, as per the thread OP.
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 01:02 - Mar 22 by Ryorry
It may have escaped your attention, but I was talking about M. McGuinness and N. Ireland, as per the thread OP.
So was he a Terrorist or a Freedom Fighter?
Your point about other options being available at the time is not valid. Have a look at this and see was there any chance of negotiations ( the comments of the soldiers says it all ).
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So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 04:33 - Mar 22 with 1139 views
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 02:27 - Mar 22 by Eireannach_gorm
So was he a Terrorist or a Freedom Fighter?
Your point about other options being available at the time is not valid. Have a look at this and see was there any chance of negotiations ( the comments of the soldiers says it all ).
Sorry but I don't have a spare 26 minutes.
Perhaps you can write out the key comments for me.
And I don't consider that there can ever be any justification for cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians - on either side. Engaging in tit for tat retribution is just immoral, childish and hugely stupid.
And why did he never apologise to either the surviving victims or the relatives of those he murdered?
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 04:33 - Mar 22 by Ryorry
Sorry but I don't have a spare 26 minutes.
Perhaps you can write out the key comments for me.
And I don't consider that there can ever be any justification for cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians - on either side. Engaging in tit for tat retribution is just immoral, childish and hugely stupid.
And why did he never apologise to either the surviving victims or the relatives of those he murdered?
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 23:50 - Mar 21 by Eireannach_gorm
excerpt from Wikipedia on the foundation of the state of Israel.
"After World War II, Britain found itself in intense conflict with the Jewish community over Jewish immigration limits, as well as continued conflict with the Arab community over limit levels. The Haganah joined Irgun and Lehi in an armed struggle against British rule. At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Jewish Holocaust survivors and refugees sought a new life far from their destroyed communities in Europe. The Yishuv attempted to bring these refugees to Palestine but many were turned away or rounded up and placed in detention camps in Atlit and Cyprus by the British.
On 22 July 1946, Irgun attacked the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. A total of 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured. The hotel was the site of the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and the Headquarters of the British Armed Forces in Palestine and Transjordan. The attack initially had the approval of the Haganah. It was conceived as a response to Operation Agatha (a series of widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, conducted by the British authorities) and was the deadliest directed at the British during the Mandate era. It was characterized as one of the "most lethal terrorist incidents of the twentieth century." In 1947, the British government announced it would withdraw from Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews."
Terrorism, like crime, DOES pay.
Yes. The bombing of the King David Hotel was an act of terrorism and the Irgun was a terrorist organisation. No ifs no buts.
I believe that the creation of a Israel in the historic ajewish homeland was the right thing to do and I believe that Israelnhasbthe right to exists within its ore 1967 borders.
That doesn't mean The Irgun was right to bomb their way to the negotiating table anymore than than the IRA.
My personal belief is that a United Ireland is not only desirable but morally right. However most people I speak to from the Irish Reunkic don't want the north to join. And I have read that view on here several times from some of our Irish posters.
But a United Ierland should only every come from the ballot box.
It's should never come from the deaths of innocent civilians, many who were woman and children, going about their day to day business in pubs, hotels and shopping centres.
The prospect of a United Ireland is far closer thanks to to the peace process than it ever was during the IRA's murderous campaign. Hundreds of innocent people would still be alive today had people taken the route of John Hume rather than that of Martin McGuiness in 1970.
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 04:33 - Mar 22 by Ryorry
Sorry but I don't have a spare 26 minutes.
Perhaps you can write out the key comments for me.
And I don't consider that there can ever be any justification for cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians - on either side. Engaging in tit for tat retribution is just immoral, childish and hugely stupid.
And why did he never apologise to either the surviving victims or the relatives of those he murdered?
It is taxing to enlighten oneself to the complexities of the Northern Ireland conflict. If it were solvable by sound bytes, it would have been resolved years ago. I dont condone murder of anyone, I am only trying to contextualise the reason for the behaviour of McGuinness and his like. The fact that there was no apology for the deaths is neither here or there. Apologies for killing people dont really do anything, to actually be sorry for doing it may be of some use.
The conflict in the North has gone on for a long time and I laud anyone who can influence an improvement. I personally would be more Hume than McGuinness but he did advance the peace process.
Just as a side note, I came across this report in other research I was doing which indicates the deep rooted nature of the conflict.
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 15:09 - Mar 22 by Eireannach_gorm
It is taxing to enlighten oneself to the complexities of the Northern Ireland conflict. If it were solvable by sound bytes, it would have been resolved years ago. I dont condone murder of anyone, I am only trying to contextualise the reason for the behaviour of McGuinness and his like. The fact that there was no apology for the deaths is neither here or there. Apologies for killing people dont really do anything, to actually be sorry for doing it may be of some use.
The conflict in the North has gone on for a long time and I laud anyone who can influence an improvement. I personally would be more Hume than McGuinness but he did advance the peace process.
Just as a side note, I came across this report in other research I was doing which indicates the deep rooted nature of the conflict.
Not asking for soundbytes, just a resume of 26 mins video! (half an hour on slow connection w. buffering no doubt). Thanks for other link, tho 24pp of v. dense small print is equally unlikely to be consumed in time I have these days ..
Appreciate what you're trying to point out, but I was previously aware (a lot from reading on here I might add) of a fair bit of Irish history generally vis a vis British involvement + the complexities of that.
"The fact that there was no apology for the deaths is neither here or there. Apologies for killing people dont really do anything, .."
I know that the victims, and the numerous family members (who I heard speak on radio yesterday) of victims no longer able to speak for themselves, would totally disagree with you on that.
So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:34 - Mar 21 by Bluefish
They may not be the same but they are without question both terrorists so therefore they can be compared
Unlike Taxi, you are not an unintelligent person, Truce. Having met Mandela and been an active part of the anti-apartheid struggle, I suggest you learn a little more about him before you make such statements. PM me if you want to discuss further.