| So Martin McGuiness has passed then 06:25 - Mar 21 with 10129 views | jeera |
Ill health possibly paid a large part in his stepping down.
There'll be mixed feelings no doubt on his death. [Post edited 21 Mar 2017 6:29]
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:36 - Mar 21 with 1545 views | jeera |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:34 - Mar 21 by Bluefish |
They may not be the same but they are without question both terrorists so therefore they can be compared |
Nonsense.
But I'm not giving credence to McGuiness by arguing the toss here.
If you sincerely believe what you say then you have much research to do. Or a biased view. | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:37 - Mar 21 with 1544 views | connorscontract |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:06 - Mar 21 by Parmigiano |
The platform and influence over the IRA he had during the peace negotiations would not have existed had he not been a leader of hate, murder and delusion in the first place. Too little, too late.
Yes Mandela was a terrorist by definition but the context was entirely different. |
1. There are marked similarities between Sharpeville and Bloody Sunday, the killing of peaceful protesters that unleashed the full scale Republican campaign.
2. Very few English people know about the Shankhill Butchers, the disgusting and sadistic wave of terror they launched, and the impact that had in derailing moves towards peace at crucial times.
The picture those of us on the mainland had was very partial.
I wouldn't eulogise his methods, but when the security forces are colluding with Loyalist terrorists like the Butchers (proven fact) then how would each of us respond in that situation?
A complex man with a bitterly problematic past who did much to redeem things. [Post edited 21 Mar 2017 8:39]
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:38 - Mar 21 with 1536 views | Bluefish |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:36 - Mar 21 by jeera |
Nonsense.
But I'm not giving credence to McGuiness by arguing the toss here.
If you sincerely believe what you say then you have much research to do. Or a biased view. |
Which bit is nonsense?
Mandela admits he was a terrorist in his own book
Are you saying you know more than him? |  |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:41 - Mar 21 with 1516 views | jeera |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:38 - Mar 21 by Bluefish |
Which bit is nonsense?
Mandela admits he was a terrorist in his own book
Are you saying you know more than him? |
You're being silly.
For the record, he said lots of things to placate others in later life.
But as you've read 'that book', you'll know all that. | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:42 - Mar 21 with 1503 views | Lord_Lucan |
Feck him |  |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:53 - Mar 21 with 1473 views | Bluefish |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:41 - Mar 21 by jeera |
You're being silly.
For the record, he said lots of things to placate others in later life.
But as you've read 'that book', you'll know all that. |
You obviously know better than him and me | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:55 - Mar 21 with 1474 views | hampstead_blue |
He should have endured the torture he dished out.
What a coward.
Never stood up to fight. Broke the law. His behind the law.
Rot in hell. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:57 - Mar 21 with 1457 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:37 - Mar 21 by connorscontract |
1. There are marked similarities between Sharpeville and Bloody Sunday, the killing of peaceful protesters that unleashed the full scale Republican campaign.
2. Very few English people know about the Shankhill Butchers, the disgusting and sadistic wave of terror they launched, and the impact that had in derailing moves towards peace at crucial times.
The picture those of us on the mainland had was very partial.
I wouldn't eulogise his methods, but when the security forces are colluding with Loyalist terrorists like the Butchers (proven fact) then how would each of us respond in that situation?
A complex man with a bitterly problematic past who did much to redeem things. [Post edited 21 Mar 2017 8:39]
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The Provos started their campaign of murder and terror in 1970, two years before the events of Bloody Sunday. To use that event as an excuse for the IRA terror campaign is an insult to the civil rights protesters killed by British troops.
The Shankhill Butchers didn't operate until 1975, five years after the IRA started their military campaign. They were utter scum who carried out indiscriminate sectarian murders on innocent Catholics but, without wantig to play terror top trumps, their victim tally pales in compassion to the IRA.
How would each of us respond to the events you describe?I doubt any of us would plant bombs in shopping centres knowing fill well we would be killing innocent children.
As I said at the start of this thread, today is a day we should remember the good Martin McGuiness did in later life rather than the bad. But posts like yours makes that harder to do. [Post edited 21 Mar 2017 8:58]
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:59 - Mar 21 with 1473 views | factual_blue |
All tthis stuff is complicated and best left to those with a decent grasp of Irish history which don't have. I think it's fair to say that the British have a long history of poor behaviour in Ireland.
Have a read about Cromwell, Henry Hugh Tudor and Bloody Sunday 1920, Derek Wilfred and Bloody Sunday 1972.
Terrorism has context. I don't seek to either condone or condemn it, just to point out all these things are a bit more nuanced. |  |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:03 - Mar 21 with 1453 views | Desmond |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:59 - Mar 21 by factual_blue |
All tthis stuff is complicated and best left to those with a decent grasp of Irish history which don't have. I think it's fair to say that the British have a long history of poor behaviour in Ireland.
Have a read about Cromwell, Henry Hugh Tudor and Bloody Sunday 1920, Derek Wilfred and Bloody Sunday 1972.
Terrorism has context. I don't seek to either condone or condemn it, just to point out all these things are a bit more nuanced. |
Have you ever had a positive word to say about this country and it's history brother?
If so I must have missed it. |  | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:11 - Mar 21 with 1434 views | LeoMuff |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:03 - Mar 21 by Desmond |
Have you ever had a positive word to say about this country and it's history brother?
If so I must have missed it. |
To be fair some elements of our history are very dark by any standards. |  |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:15 - Mar 21 with 1428 views | brazil1982 |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:59 - Mar 21 by factual_blue |
All tthis stuff is complicated and best left to those with a decent grasp of Irish history which don't have. I think it's fair to say that the British have a long history of poor behaviour in Ireland.
Have a read about Cromwell, Henry Hugh Tudor and Bloody Sunday 1920, Derek Wilfred and Bloody Sunday 1972.
Terrorism has context. I don't seek to either condone or condemn it, just to point out all these things are a bit more nuanced. |
Oh, here we are - the first to bring up Cromwell. | | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:16 - Mar 21 with 1408 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:15 - Mar 21 by brazil1982 |
Oh, here we are - the first to bring up Cromwell. |
Facters is old enough to remember Cromwell. | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:19 - Mar 21 with 1410 views | factual_blue |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:11 - Mar 21 by LeoMuff |
To be fair some elements of our history are very dark by any standards. |
And using History as a prop to bolster a particular view of a country or an individual is, to me anyway, disappointing. | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:24 - Mar 21 with 1397 views | factual_blue |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:15 - Mar 21 by brazil1982 |
Oh, here we are - the first to bring up Cromwell. |
Do you think he isn't relevant to how the Irish see their history and their relationship with the English, even to this day? Whether it is right or wrong that they do is irrelevant. | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:30 - Mar 21 with 1380 views | factual_blue |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:32 - Mar 21 with 1372 views | Desmond |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:24 - Mar 21 by factual_blue |
Do you think he isn't relevant to how the Irish see their history and their relationship with the English, even to this day? Whether it is right or wrong that they do is irrelevant. |
I'm blaming Brexit on the Roman invasion of AD43, the Norman conquest of 1066 and the bombing of the UK by the Germans brother.
This is clearly relevant to how the British see their history and their relationship with Europe, even to this day. | | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:50 - Mar 21 with 1325 views | Herbivore |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 06:36 - Mar 21 by GlasgowBlue |
There is no doubt that as Chief of Staff of the IRA Army Council he was responsible for some of the worst terror atrocities carried out both in Northern Ireland and the UK mainland.
However, he spent the latter part of his life working for peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland and it took a lot of courage to bring the hardline members of the IRA to the peace table at the risk of his own life.
You can't ignore what he did as a member of th IRA, but today it's probably best to remember the good he did rather than the bad. |
Agree entirely. |  |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:05 - Mar 21 with 1302 views | taximan |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 06:36 - Mar 21 by GlasgowBlue |
There is no doubt that as Chief of Staff of the IRA Army Council he was responsible for some of the worst terror atrocities carried out both in Northern Ireland and the UK mainland.
However, he spent the latter part of his life working for peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland and it took a lot of courage to bring the hardline members of the IRA to the peace table at the risk of his own life.
You can't ignore what he did as a member of th IRA, but today it's probably best to remember the good he did rather than the bad. |
so in 20 years time when isis have entered into a peace process, we can forgive and forget their past actions also ??
fantastic | | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:07 - Mar 21 with 1293 views | Herbivore |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:05 - Mar 21 by taximan |
so in 20 years time when isis have entered into a peace process, we can forgive and forget their past actions also ??
fantastic |
Either you've not read or not understood Glassers' post. | |
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| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:15 - Mar 21 with 1274 views | taximan |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:07 - Mar 21 by Herbivore |
Either you've not read or not understood Glassers' post. |
forget about the bad, focus on the good
sums it up well enough | | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:39 - Mar 21 with 1233 views | dryas |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 09:32 - Mar 21 by Desmond |
I'm blaming Brexit on the Roman invasion of AD43, the Norman conquest of 1066 and the bombing of the UK by the Germans brother.
This is clearly relevant to how the British see their history and their relationship with Europe, even to this day. |
"The British"? |  | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:41 - Mar 21 with 1230 views | dryas |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:06 - Mar 21 by Parmigiano |
The platform and influence over the IRA he had during the peace negotiations would not have existed had he not been a leader of hate, murder and delusion in the first place. Too little, too late.
Yes Mandela was a terrorist by definition but the context was entirely different. |
Delusion? | | | |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 10:43 - Mar 21 with 1227 views | dryas |
| So Martin McGuiness has passed then on 08:59 - Mar 21 by factual_blue |
All tthis stuff is complicated and best left to those with a decent grasp of Irish history which don't have. I think it's fair to say that the British have a long history of poor behaviour in Ireland.
Have a read about Cromwell, Henry Hugh Tudor and Bloody Sunday 1920, Derek Wilfred and Bloody Sunday 1972.
Terrorism has context. I don't seek to either condone or condemn it, just to point out all these things are a bit more nuanced. |
Unsurprisingly, this thread demonstrates a general understanding akin to that seen during the Brexit debate. | | | |
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