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The sad reality is 18:40 - Mar 22 with 9950 viewsArcher4721

in times like these it really does bring out all the nobheads

https://mobile.twitter.com/hrtablaze/status/844603723892514816/video/1
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The sad reality is on 11:32 - Mar 23 with 1387 viewsGlasgowBlue

The sad reality is on 10:45 - Mar 23 by caught-in-limbo

I never said ISIS has no link to Islam.

Followers of ISIS claim to be muslims.

Nazis claimed to be Christians.

Nazis didn't represent Christianity.

ISIS does not represent Islam.

There's nothing naive about what I said.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2017 10:48]


A big difference there CIL.

Members of the Nazi party may have been born Christian, as I was, but they never claimed that the Nazi Party represented Christianity. They didn't carry out their atrocities in the name of Christianity. In fact people like Himmler, Goebbels and Bormann were very anti religion and oppression of churches.

IS are Muslims and they claim to be carrying out their barbaric acts in the name of Islam.

Of course it goes without saying that the views of IS are not shared by the millions of decent peace loving Muslims around the world but your comparison with the Nazi's representing Christianity is deeply flawed.

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The sad reality is on 11:34 - Mar 23 with 1393 viewslowhouseblue

The sad reality is on 11:17 - Mar 23 by WeWereZombies

Taking those questions in turn:

1. I would be very surprised if an immediate investigation was not taking place, i.e. a meeting of COBRA. I also expect a more detailed investigation and report at a later stage.

2. I have no idea of the percentages but I think most of the findings will be made public and some will, of necessity, remain secret.

3. Your final question seems to contradict, in part at least, your first question. How can anyone know at this stage if there is anything wrong with the investigation? Mistakes are bound to occur and, we hope, will be corrected.


good answers.

so when you say "I would prefer agencies with the capability to find out who carried out the attack and inform us plausibly" what can it possibly mean?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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The sad reality is on 11:39 - Mar 23 with 1373 viewsWeWereZombies

The sad reality is on 11:14 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue

Perhaps the bodies can at least go cold before people start throwing around bizarre conspiracy theories?


It is not that bizarre, unless you live life in total ignorance of the manipulative nature of some human beings, but it is, as I thought I made clear, unlikely.

As for body temperature, well we do not know what happens to us after we die but those of us still alive owe a duty to the murdered - we need to make best efforts to find out why and how this atrocity occurred. To prevaricate and delay only hinders that. And indeed to give undue resources to unlikely scenarios would not either.

However, Imsureazzure posted yesterday that the guy taking a selfie near the event should be arreested - waste of time and serves no real purpose. Taking the two spouting off in the clip Archer posted into custody for a few hours would have removed individuals who could have had an inflammatory effect on the situation from the scene and made them, and others, think twice in future about their actions.

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The sad reality is on 11:39 - Mar 23 with 1369 viewsJonnosdreadlocks

The sad reality is on 23:29 - Mar 22 by Bluefish

Just so that we are clear are you saying that support banning all Muslims from the uk?


Where have I said that? What I don't like is you shouting down people saying you you can't say that or dishing out volleys of abuse because they have a different view, regardless if you agree or not. Banning any religion is ridiculous but whether you like it or not these people consider themselves proper Muslims rather like the 'Christian' nutters of Tudor age burning one another as heretics because they had differing views on the bible.
the most worrying thing is that Islam is a set of fascist ideological ideas which believes all unbelievers must convert or die and democracy and other non believers are kaffirs. Moderate Muslims don't truly believe in the literal meaning of the qui ran word for word in the way that most Christians or Jews don't believe in the Old Testament literally. Moderate muslims and Christians and Jews have just watered down or copy and pasted what suits them from their religious texts.

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The sad reality is on 11:46 - Mar 23 with 1353 viewsNo9

The sad reality is on 11:32 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue

A big difference there CIL.

Members of the Nazi party may have been born Christian, as I was, but they never claimed that the Nazi Party represented Christianity. They didn't carry out their atrocities in the name of Christianity. In fact people like Himmler, Goebbels and Bormann were very anti religion and oppression of churches.

IS are Muslims and they claim to be carrying out their barbaric acts in the name of Islam.

Of course it goes without saying that the views of IS are not shared by the millions of decent peace loving Muslims around the world but your comparison with the Nazi's representing Christianity is deeply flawed.


CIL has a very good point, you may want to review what is behind the link

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/06/nazi-leaders-and-christianity/
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The sad reality is on 11:53 - Mar 23 with 1340 viewsWeWereZombies

The sad reality is on 11:34 - Mar 23 by lowhouseblue

good answers.

so when you say "I would prefer agencies with the capability to find out who carried out the attack and inform us plausibly" what can it possibly mean?


I would mean that we believe, on balance, what those agencies tell us. When I saw on the news last November that there had been a 7.5 earthquake I believed it (because I had felt it eight hours earlier) and I was not shocked and dismayed to find out later that it had, in fact, been a 7.8. The report was good enough to go on with.

When Blue Lagos first started posting about Hillsborough I didn't believe him and had faith in the Government reporting around that issue but subsequent revelations have vindicated our poster and shaken my faith in what can be useful in official reports. However, David Cameron's significant speeches and the publication of new material by the Government on Hillsborough, on Bloody Sunday and on the MAU MAU swung me back into regarding official narratives as trustworthy and worthwhile - and the Iraq enquiry just got me sceptical again, but mainly confused as to how anyone could digest all that. How much plausibility is a bit like asking how long is a bit of string when you have nothing to measure it with, but you can still say that there is some string there.

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The sad reality is on 13:40 - Mar 23 with 1273 viewsThe_Romford_Blue

The sad reality is on 07:01 - Mar 23 by FrowsyArmLarry

Just to play devils advocate, What's so important about religion that makes it unbannable?


You can't boot out every religious person for being religious. You just can't ban religion

Fwiw, I am not religious and don't think it should be taught in schools.

Banning whatever religious the terrorist supports is just idiocy imo

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The sad reality is on 15:34 - Mar 23 with 1228 viewsbluelagos

The sad reality is on 11:53 - Mar 23 by WeWereZombies

I would mean that we believe, on balance, what those agencies tell us. When I saw on the news last November that there had been a 7.5 earthquake I believed it (because I had felt it eight hours earlier) and I was not shocked and dismayed to find out later that it had, in fact, been a 7.8. The report was good enough to go on with.

When Blue Lagos first started posting about Hillsborough I didn't believe him and had faith in the Government reporting around that issue but subsequent revelations have vindicated our poster and shaken my faith in what can be useful in official reports. However, David Cameron's significant speeches and the publication of new material by the Government on Hillsborough, on Bloody Sunday and on the MAU MAU swung me back into regarding official narratives as trustworthy and worthwhile - and the Iraq enquiry just got me sceptical again, but mainly confused as to how anyone could digest all that. How much plausibility is a bit like asking how long is a bit of string when you have nothing to measure it with, but you can still say that there is some string there.


As an aside, I'd be interested in people views ref changing their opinions re Hillsborough. Will try and post something, maybe on the anniversary of the verdicts. (about 5 weeks time)

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The sad reality is on 16:05 - Mar 23 with 1185 viewsArcher4721

The sad reality is on 11:04 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue

Are you trolling?


I think everyone on here leaves that to you.
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The sad reality is on 16:08 - Mar 23 with 1167 viewsNo9

The sad reality is on 15:34 - Mar 23 by bluelagos

As an aside, I'd be interested in people views ref changing their opinions re Hillsborough. Will try and post something, maybe on the anniversary of the verdicts. (about 5 weeks time)


I always thought the Hillsborough tragedy was a very,cvery serious affair with the matter being decided at the very top
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The sad reality is on 16:12 - Mar 23 with 1155 viewsWD19

No worse than on here after a 0-0 home draw.
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The sad reality is on 16:13 - Mar 23 with 1151 viewsArcher4721

The sad reality is on 22:23 - Mar 22 by GlasgowBlue

The man who murdered Jo Cox was a White Supremacist. Should we ban white people from this country?


"White Supremacist?" Is that what they call far right wing racists and the BNP now?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/murdered-mp-jo-cox-had-10064036
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The sad reality is on 16:15 - Mar 23 with 1135 viewsfeelingblue

The sad reality is on 16:13 - Mar 23 by Archer4721

"White Supremacist?" Is that what they call far right wing racists and the BNP now?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/murdered-mp-jo-cox-had-10064036


That would be about right.
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The sad reality is on 16:18 - Mar 23 with 1112 viewsGlasgowBlue

The sad reality is on 16:13 - Mar 23 by Archer4721

"White Supremacist?" Is that what they call far right wing racists and the BNP now?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/murdered-mp-jo-cox-had-10064036


Yes. Compared to your average BNP knuckle dragger, Thomas Mair was way off the scale.

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The sad reality is on 16:20 - Mar 23 with 1108 viewsArcher4721

The sad reality is on 16:18 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue

Yes. Compared to your average BNP knuckle dragger, Thomas Mair was way off the scale.


But you don't have to be white to be a racist you know.
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The sad reality is on 16:22 - Mar 23 with 1089 viewsGlasgowBlue

The sad reality is on 16:20 - Mar 23 by Archer4721

But you don't have to be white to be a racist you know.


I'm struggling to see what you are taking issue with with regards to my post.

It was in reply to somebody's outrageous suggestion that we ban all Muslims from the country because of the actions of one Muslim man.

Have we reached the stage where you are challenging my posts just for the sake of it? If so then we may have to part company again as it's tedious and unproductive.

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The sad reality is on 16:28 - Mar 23 with 1077 viewspointofblue

The sad reality is on 11:39 - Mar 23 by Jonnosdreadlocks

Where have I said that? What I don't like is you shouting down people saying you you can't say that or dishing out volleys of abuse because they have a different view, regardless if you agree or not. Banning any religion is ridiculous but whether you like it or not these people consider themselves proper Muslims rather like the 'Christian' nutters of Tudor age burning one another as heretics because they had differing views on the bible.
the most worrying thing is that Islam is a set of fascist ideological ideas which believes all unbelievers must convert or die and democracy and other non believers are kaffirs. Moderate Muslims don't truly believe in the literal meaning of the qui ran word for word in the way that most Christians or Jews don't believe in the Old Testament literally. Moderate muslims and Christians and Jews have just watered down or copy and pasted what suits them from their religious texts.


"the most worrying thing is that Islam is a set of fascist ideological ideas which believes all unbelievers must convert or die"

So does the Bible. It's the interpretation of the religious books within modern life which is important; most Christians and Muslims understand that the books were written by the educated to keep people in line in that era, but still has messages of warmth and hope which can be used in daily life.

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The sad reality is on 16:32 - Mar 23 with 1060 viewsArcher4721

The sad reality is on 16:22 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue

I'm struggling to see what you are taking issue with with regards to my post.

It was in reply to somebody's outrageous suggestion that we ban all Muslims from the country because of the actions of one Muslim man.

Have we reached the stage where you are challenging my posts just for the sake of it? If so then we may have to part company again as it's tedious and unproductive.


Why can't you ever answer a simple question when asked instead of throwing your toys out of the pram time and time again when challenged.


Do you think it's your right on here to abuse everyone as you like and then not explain yourself and cry like a little child when put on the spot.


It's very weird behaviour.
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The sad reality is on 16:36 - Mar 23 with 1038 viewsGlasgowBlue

The sad reality is on 16:32 - Mar 23 by Archer4721

Why can't you ever answer a simple question when asked instead of throwing your toys out of the pram time and time again when challenged.


Do you think it's your right on here to abuse everyone as you like and then not explain yourself and cry like a little child when put on the spot.


It's very weird behaviour.


You answered your own question with the link from the Mirror you posted.

The headline was :

"Murdered MP Jo Cox "had it coming" claims white supremacist group ex-member filmed in undercover sting"

Now what do you take issue with in the way I used the term in my op?

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The sad reality is on 18:32 - Mar 23 with 997 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

The sad reality is on 16:28 - Mar 23 by pointofblue

"the most worrying thing is that Islam is a set of fascist ideological ideas which believes all unbelievers must convert or die"

So does the Bible. It's the interpretation of the religious books within modern life which is important; most Christians and Muslims understand that the books were written by the educated to keep people in line in that era, but still has messages of warmth and hope which can be used in daily life.


Is that a fact? I thought Christianity was more about turning the other cheek? Anyway, the issue is how the religion is being implemented i.e. what countries or religions have a death sentence for apostasy?
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The sad reality is on 18:38 - Mar 23 with 980 viewsfeelingblue

The sad reality is on 18:32 - Mar 23 by FrowsyArmLarry

Is that a fact? I thought Christianity was more about turning the other cheek? Anyway, the issue is how the religion is being implemented i.e. what countries or religions have a death sentence for apostasy?


Presumably you haven't read the Old Testament?
And people do still live by taking sections of the Old Testament literally hence ridiculous things like creationism,denying that some people are born gay etc
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The sad reality is on 18:41 - Mar 23 with 975 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

The sad reality is on 18:38 - Mar 23 by feelingblue

Presumably you haven't read the Old Testament?
And people do still live by taking sections of the Old Testament literally hence ridiculous things like creationism,denying that some people are born gay etc


and the death sentence for not believing in creationism is?
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The sad reality is on 18:47 - Mar 23 with 956 viewsfeelingblue

The sad reality is on 18:41 - Mar 23 by FrowsyArmLarry

and the death sentence for not believing in creationism is?


Don't know.

Here is the one for being gay - King James Bible version.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
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The sad reality is on 18:57 - Mar 23 with 940 viewsmos

The only reason Muslim members should fight people/go to war is if:

They're acting in self-defence
If another nation threatens the faith
If another state is oppressing Muslims
This also includes that non-combatants mustn't be harmed.

If this terrorist who attacked London yesterday is Muslim. I argue not.

If I am to be correct, this can help disprove anyone who thinks Muslims should be banned from the UK.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2017 19:04]

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The sad reality is on 19:17 - Mar 23 with 911 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

The sad reality is on 18:47 - Mar 23 by feelingblue

Don't know.

Here is the one for being gay - King James Bible version.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."


From wikipedia:-

Current regimes with the death penalty:

Mauritania, only applies to Muslim men[1]
Sudan for a third conviction[1]
Northern Nigeria where several states have adopted sharia law[1]
Yemen[1][2]
Saudi Arabia[1]
Qatar applies only to Muslims, for extramarital-sex regardless of the gender of the participants[1]
Somalia where several southern states have adopted sharia law[1]
Iran[1]
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant[3]

There is legal dispute whether the law of the United Arab Emirates allows for the death penalty for homosexuality, however Amnesty International could find no instances of the death penalty.[2]
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