| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:25 - Mar 26 with 2929 views | factual_blue |
Thinking they can't get into something like Whatsapp is probably an error. Thinking they'd tell you they can an even bigger one.
Britain's intelligence services are primus inter pares at deception and duplicity |  |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:26 - Mar 26 with 2924 views | J2BLUE |
If they can get in then other people can get in. It comes down to privacy vs security. Which are you more concerned about? It seems like you're prepared to give up any freedom in the name of terror. |  |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:28 - Mar 26 with 2920 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:26 - Mar 26 by J2BLUE |
If they can get in then other people can get in. It comes down to privacy vs security. Which are you more concerned about? It seems like you're prepared to give up any freedom in the name of terror. |
I'm prepared to give up privacy for the sake of mine and my family's safety. Of course I am.
Anyone who's more concerned about a security geezer seeing what you text your missus rather than there being more terrorist attacks is either a lier or an idiot.
In my opinion. |  |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:31 - Mar 26 with 2911 views | ElderGrizzly |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:25 - Mar 26 by factual_blue |
Thinking they can't get into something like Whatsapp is probably an error. Thinking they'd tell you they can an even bigger one.
Britain's intelligence services are primus inter pares at deception and duplicity |
Like the US security services couldn't get into Apple devices.... ;) |  | | |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:31 - Mar 26 with 2903 views | eireblue |
Red herring. Easy enough to encrypt data. WhatsApp just makes it slightly easier. |  | | |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:34 - Mar 26 with 2890 views | J2BLUE |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:28 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
I'm prepared to give up privacy for the sake of mine and my family's safety. Of course I am.
Anyone who's more concerned about a security geezer seeing what you text your missus rather than there being more terrorist attacks is either a lier or an idiot.
In my opinion. |
Remember that while the current government will have these powers all future governments will as well and you can't guarantee future governments will be as 'democratic' as they are now.
Another thing to remember is that this info being stored is a prime target for cyber criminals. I'm not saying after careful consideration I would be more concerned about privacy than terrorism but i'm also not saying i'm not, in your words, an idiot. I think to accept these measures with little consideration rather than critically think about them makes you naive or an idiot.
You're very unlikely to die in a terrorist attack. Is mass surveillance and data on every citizen a measured response to make you ever so slightly safer? Again, not saying I would accept it but i'd have a damn good think about it first. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:43 - Mar 26 with 2855 views | Herbivore |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:28 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
I'm prepared to give up privacy for the sake of mine and my family's safety. Of course I am.
Anyone who's more concerned about a security geezer seeing what you text your missus rather than there being more terrorist attacks is either a lier or an idiot.
In my opinion. |
How would the security services being able to monitor WhatsApp have prevented the attack in London this week? |  |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:48 - Mar 26 with 2837 views | LankHenners |
End-to-end encryption is end-to-end encryption - as I understand it whatsapp couldn't give information (i.e. content of messages) if they wanted to. As J2 alluded to, either everyone's privacy is exposed or no-one's is. |  |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 20:36 - Mar 26 with 2737 views | textbackup |
Romford, whatever anyone tells you, trust me, they can see what people are doing. If they suspect it, there are ways. |  |
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| on 20:47 - Mar 26 with 2700 views | _ |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:28 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
I'm prepared to give up privacy for the sake of mine and my family's safety. Of course I am.
Anyone who's more concerned about a security geezer seeing what you text your missus rather than there being more terrorist attacks is either a lier or an idiot.
In my opinion. |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:20 - Mar 26 with 2572 views | tcblue |
Interesting, isn't it | | | |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:31 - Mar 26 with 2551 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:43 - Mar 26 by Herbivore |
How would the security services being able to monitor WhatsApp have prevented the attack in London this week? |
The attacker went on whatsapp two minutes before going over the bridge.
He may well have been texting his mate to say that he's 'about to do it. Good luck with your attack next week at ______'
He could've spent the previous weeks organising it with someone else.
COULD'VE being a keyword. Nobody will ever know. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:34 - Mar 26 with 2535 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:34 - Mar 26 by J2BLUE |
Remember that while the current government will have these powers all future governments will as well and you can't guarantee future governments will be as 'democratic' as they are now.
Another thing to remember is that this info being stored is a prime target for cyber criminals. I'm not saying after careful consideration I would be more concerned about privacy than terrorism but i'm also not saying i'm not, in your words, an idiot. I think to accept these measures with little consideration rather than critically think about them makes you naive or an idiot.
You're very unlikely to die in a terrorist attack. Is mass surveillance and data on every citizen a measured response to make you ever so slightly safer? Again, not saying I would accept it but i'd have a damn good think about it first. |
I've had a think about it too.
I wrote an essay on it encryption and privacy in school once which involved 2 weeks of research
I believe anyone choosing privacy over safety (not just from terrorists) is absolutely crazy. This attacker could have spent weeks on whatsapp (he was on there 2 minutes before going over the bridge) going through every last stage with someone from ISIS on how to do it. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:35 - Mar 26 with 2527 views | Keaneish |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 19:28 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
I'm prepared to give up privacy for the sake of mine and my family's safety. Of course I am.
Anyone who's more concerned about a security geezer seeing what you text your missus rather than there being more terrorist attacks is either a lier or an idiot.
In my opinion. |
Some might argue this reaction is all part of the bigger plan to willingly give away our freedom away ala 9/11 conspiracy theorists.
Given the Patriot Act, Detainee and Homeland Security legislation that was passed in response eroding civil liberties, I'm inclined to agree with them.
I feel very secure despite all the media terrorist hysteria. In fact, statistically, this has been one of the safest times to be alive if you ignore the threat of nuclear holocaust of course(!). My privacy is subject to constant scrutiny every day. It makes me feel more insecure knowing someone has visibility over everything I do rather than any supposed terrorist attack. |  |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:37 - Mar 26 with 2511 views | Herbivore |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:31 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
The attacker went on whatsapp two minutes before going over the bridge.
He may well have been texting his mate to say that he's 'about to do it. Good luck with your attack next week at ______'
He could've spent the previous weeks organising it with someone else.
COULD'VE being a keyword. Nobody will ever know. |
All evidence suggests he acted alone and that their is no evidence of any linked attacks. Wild speculation should not be the basis of an argument to increase surveillance of civilians. There is no credible link between this attack and the use of WhatsApp and it's disingenuous of the home secretary to use a terror attack to seek yet greater access to people's private communications. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:37 - Mar 26 with 2502 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:35 - Mar 26 by Keaneish |
Some might argue this reaction is all part of the bigger plan to willingly give away our freedom away ala 9/11 conspiracy theorists.
Given the Patriot Act, Detainee and Homeland Security legislation that was passed in response eroding civil liberties, I'm inclined to agree with them.
I feel very secure despite all the media terrorist hysteria. In fact, statistically, this has been one of the safest times to be alive if you ignore the threat of nuclear holocaust of course(!). My privacy is subject to constant scrutiny every day. It makes me feel more insecure knowing someone has visibility over everything I do rather than any supposed terrorist attack. |
But it's the fact that many things aren't with end to end encryption that is why there are so few attacks. 12 foiled by the intelligence service according to a statement the other day in this country alone.
Very few things have complete encryption but whatsapp started it last year. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:41 - Mar 26 with 2486 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:37 - Mar 26 by Herbivore |
All evidence suggests he acted alone and that their is no evidence of any linked attacks. Wild speculation should not be the basis of an argument to increase surveillance of civilians. There is no credible link between this attack and the use of WhatsApp and it's disingenuous of the home secretary to use a terror attack to seek yet greater access to people's private communications. |
'There is no credible link between this attack and the use of WhatsApp'
From sky news website:
'The pair spoke as Sky learned that Masood had used the WhatsApp phone messaging service at 2.37pm on Wednesday afternoon.He launched his attack two minutes later, killing four people. It is unclear whether he was communicating with someone.'
This was today confirmed in a statement from whatsapp themselves who condemned the attack.
He could've been speaking to someone at Isis about future attacks. You have absolutely no idea. That's my point. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:42 - Mar 26 with 2477 views | Herbivore |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:34 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
I've had a think about it too.
I wrote an essay on it encryption and privacy in school once which involved 2 weeks of research
I believe anyone choosing privacy over safety (not just from terrorists) is absolutely crazy. This attacker could have spent weeks on whatsapp (he was on there 2 minutes before going over the bridge) going through every last stage with someone from ISIS on how to do it. |
That's wild speculation and does not tally with what the police have found in their investigation to date. You seem to be placing a lot of significance on him going on WhatsApp 2 minutes before the attack took place and I'm not sure why, millions of people in the UK go on WhatsApp regularly. I'd imagine being sat in a car about to do what he was about to do, pissing about on his phone was a welcome distraction. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:46 - Mar 26 with 2461 views | Herbivore |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:41 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
'There is no credible link between this attack and the use of WhatsApp'
From sky news website:
'The pair spoke as Sky learned that Masood had used the WhatsApp phone messaging service at 2.37pm on Wednesday afternoon.He launched his attack two minutes later, killing four people. It is unclear whether he was communicating with someone.'
This was today confirmed in a statement from whatsapp themselves who condemned the attack.
He could've been speaking to someone at Isis about future attacks. You have absolutely no idea. That's my point. |
So if he'd gone to McDonald's 10 minutes before the attack would you be happy for the government to wire tap all McDonald's? There's no link, there's no evidence he was involved with anyone else in planning this or other attacks. The fact he logged into WhatsApp is entirely incidental. Seems that the propaganda to soften people to greater surveillance is doing the trick though. | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:53 - Mar 26 with 2420 views | flimflam |
No different to me using a vpn on my phone and laptop. Encryption is here to stay and not a lot they can do about it to be honest |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 23:08 - Mar 26 with 2382 views | caught-in-limbo |
More nonsense from politicians and news agencies. Honestly, this is absolute gibberish from Rudd and Marr. It's as real as TV detector vans. [Post edited 26 Mar 2017 23:13]
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 23:15 - Mar 26 with 2362 views | Keaneish |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:46 - Mar 26 by Herbivore |
So if he'd gone to McDonald's 10 minutes before the attack would you be happy for the government to wire tap all McDonald's? There's no link, there's no evidence he was involved with anyone else in planning this or other attacks. The fact he logged into WhatsApp is entirely incidental. Seems that the propaganda to soften people to greater surveillance is doing the trick though. |
Agreed. The US are now using Angel Fire drones on civilians. Once detected through facial recognition patterns, civilians are given a score/rating as to whether they're likely to commit a crime based on their habits, movements, social media feeds etc ..What was a successful tool in Mosul has been introduced into Homeland Securitys 'defense' arsenal.
How anyone can see anything that's right with this is beyond me yet people will insist that this protects their 'freedom' - it's like we're sleep walking to the beat of the sound bite media terror drum and rationalising it through fear, which is completely irrational on many levels! | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 23:20 - Mar 26 with 2348 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:42 - Mar 26 by Herbivore |
That's wild speculation and does not tally with what the police have found in their investigation to date. You seem to be placing a lot of significance on him going on WhatsApp 2 minutes before the attack took place and I'm not sure why, millions of people in the UK go on WhatsApp regularly. I'd imagine being sat in a car about to do what he was about to do, pissing about on his phone was a welcome distraction. |
You aren't understanding my point.
He COULD HAVE been saying anything.
There may be another plot planned for tomorrow planned by whatsapp. The intelligence services have no idea as whatsapp has end to end encryption now | |
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| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 23:40 - Mar 26 with 2295 views | StNeotsBlue |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 22:42 - Mar 26 by Herbivore |
That's wild speculation and does not tally with what the police have found in their investigation to date. You seem to be placing a lot of significance on him going on WhatsApp 2 minutes before the attack took place and I'm not sure why, millions of people in the UK go on WhatsApp regularly. I'd imagine being sat in a car about to do what he was about to do, pissing about on his phone was a welcome distraction. |
I tend to agree with your wider point but your last sentence is mental, he didn't have a go on Clash of Clans or Candy Crush to calm his nerves, in this case his use of WhatsApp and who with is of importance. |  | | |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 23:46 - Mar 26 with 2282 views | Keaneish |
| I didn't realise end-to-end encryption included intelligence services on 23:20 - Mar 26 by The_Romford_Blue |
You aren't understanding my point.
He COULD HAVE been saying anything.
There may be another plot planned for tomorrow planned by whatsapp. The intelligence services have no idea as whatsapp has end to end encryption now |
Looking at whatsapps data security protocol isn't the right way to look at solving this perceived security threat though. In fact it's at the very bottom of the pecking order. Foreign policy and humanitarian efforts in displaced countries are probably top of my list but it's not quite as easy to read at a glance or as vogue to print on the front of newspapers.
As they're too big and deep rooted problems to solve, we're subjected to quick, lazy headlines about a message platform being consequential in the act of murder. Well, maybe there is truth in it but where does it stop? Let's say the FBI, CIA, NSA, Mi5 get access to phones and WhatsApp data, there will just be new quantum cryptography developed and the circle continues. Cyber war is huge and is already considered as the fourth military arsenal along side the Navy, Army and Air Force. It's an unwinnable arms race where people will just become more exposed to more and more scrutiny and control until every word and movement is accounted for, if it isn't already. | |
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