| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? 10:46 - Mar 28 with 6613 views | hype313 |
If so, please elaborate as why he isn't. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:40 - Mar 28 with 1178 views | flashblue |
Just like a house or land, a football club does not make a profit but appreciates in value. They are not making any more of them. You can't just go out an buy an English football club.
ITFC is worth more now than it was when Evans bought it. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:54 - Mar 28 with 1157 views | Benters |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 12:23 - Mar 28 by BlueBadger |
In all fairness though Benters, things you don't understand include books that don't have Janet and John on the cover, automatic doors and that things written on buses may be lies. [Post edited 28 Mar 2017 12:24]
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yep fantastic work buffing those hospital floors.. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:55 - Mar 28 with 1148 views | Guthrum |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:40 - Mar 28 by flashblue |
Just like a house or land, a football club does not make a profit but appreciates in value. They are not making any more of them. You can't just go out an buy an English football club.
ITFC is worth more now than it was when Evans bought it. |
However, the demand for second-tier English football clubs is extremely low.
And nothing about a football club, apart from any land owned and assets like players, appreciates significantly in value. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:58 - Mar 28 with 1143 views | Benters |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 12:25 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
But that's mainly by claiming extra expenses/costs or sending profit elsewhere, using means which don't cost more than the sums you're likely to save.
Making a deliberate loss on ITFC to offset against other MEG profits doesn't achieve that, as you will necessarily pay out more than you're saving. Effectively the net profit (what's left over to potentially go into your pocket) would go down by up to four times the amount you'd avoided paying in tax.
Accountants still have to work within the law. It's a science, not magic. |
forgive me if you will but you are a painter and decorator yes ? | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 17:32 - Mar 28 with 1126 views | Guthrum |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:58 - Mar 28 by Benters |
forgive me if you will but you are a painter and decorator yes ? |
Yes. And I've been filling in tax forms for 20 years now.
Plus I spent some time working in a job that involved a lot of looking at business accounts (including those with overseas holdings). | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 17:37 - Mar 28 with 1117 views | BackToRussia |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:55 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
However, the demand for second-tier English football clubs is extremely low.
And nothing about a football club, apart from any land owned and assets like players, appreciates significantly in value. |
What are you basing that first claim on? |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 17:40 - Mar 28 with 1120 views | Guthrum |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 17:37 - Mar 28 by BackToRussia |
What are you basing that first claim on? |
How many people are in a position to bid? How often do sales occur, how long do they take? How often is there actual competition between prospective buyers, rather than the seller having to go out and solicit? | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:11 - Mar 28 with 1103 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:40 - Mar 28 by flashblue |
Just like a house or land, a football club does not make a profit but appreciates in value. They are not making any more of them. You can't just go out an buy an English football club.
ITFC is worth more now than it was when Evans bought it. |
Evidence for this?
Given the debt position, I doubt you'd get anything substantive for the club at all. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:14 - Mar 28 with 1097 views | jas0999 |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 10:50 - Mar 28 by hype313 |
Fair enough, I just don't get why one would buy a business that needs £8m a year just to keep it's head above water. |
Does he put £8 M in a year though. Didn't he have one year where we made a £5M profit due to player sales?
It's been reported in the past that he uses the loses to offset elsewhere. That's no surprise. He also bought the debt for a fraction of it's current value. |  | | |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:16 - Mar 28 with 1091 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:14 - Mar 28 by jas0999 |
Does he put £8 M in a year though. Didn't he have one year where we made a £5M profit due to player sales?
It's been reported in the past that he uses the loses to offset elsewhere. That's no surprise. He also bought the debt for a fraction of it's current value. |
Oh for goodness sake... Read the thread about the offsetting. Thats what it was initially about. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:39 - Mar 28 with 1071 views | braveblue |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 10:48 - Mar 28 by BlueBadger |
Given that he's reportedly putting £8m a year in to ensure the place keeps running, I'm can't really see how he's going to save money in the long run through some kind of tax loophole. |
£8m is nonsense. | | | |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:40 - Mar 28 with 1072 views | monty_radio |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:55 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
However, the demand for second-tier English football clubs is extremely low.
And nothing about a football club, apart from any land owned and assets like players, appreciates significantly in value. |
I thought I remembered Phil saying that finding a buyer wouldn't be too difficult for M.E. if he really wanted to sell?
On a more minor point, several have quoted the £80m+ debt, and some have referred also to M.E. having put in that amount. But did he not pay £8m for a £36m debt, and then initially another £10m to boost playing resources? So he has "put in" nearer £60m than £80m, though the debt is obviously represented by the larger figure.
And I don't suppose that even our most ardent fan/accountants have been quite able to unravel how the big monies received for sales fully match up to the "large loan-fees and increased wages" that are often thrown at us i.e. is anyone qualified to point directly to money being effectively taken out of the club at certain points, or not? | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:47 - Mar 28 with 1069 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:40 - Mar 28 by monty_radio |
I thought I remembered Phil saying that finding a buyer wouldn't be too difficult for M.E. if he really wanted to sell?
On a more minor point, several have quoted the £80m+ debt, and some have referred also to M.E. having put in that amount. But did he not pay £8m for a £36m debt, and then initially another £10m to boost playing resources? So he has "put in" nearer £60m than £80m, though the debt is obviously represented by the larger figure.
And I don't suppose that even our most ardent fan/accountants have been quite able to unravel how the big monies received for sales fully match up to the "large loan-fees and increased wages" that are often thrown at us i.e. is anyone qualified to point directly to money being effectively taken out of the club at certain points, or not? |
It depends what you mean by a buyer...
A buyer for a pound, if the debt is written off would be easy, Im sure.
There is no evidence of money taken out of the club- the profits made have essentially just prevented money having to be put in so far as the accounts show.
It is correct that the oft quoted £7m is a bit misleading. By the time tax offset and yearly write downs are taken into account, the loss does not equate literally to an investment in the same amount each year. Its probably nearer 5.5 m Id estimate (very roughly). | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 23:43 - Mar 28 with 996 views | flashblue |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:11 - Mar 28 by sparks |
Evidence for this?
Given the debt position, I doubt you'd get anything substantive for the club at all. |
Evans could recover all his investment and more at any time. Believe me, there are buyers out there if he wanted to sell. The world is a very small place with a lot of rich people looking for a home for their wealth.
But he doesn't want to sell, because the club will be worth even more in 5 years' time. | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 00:06 - Mar 29 with 981 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 11:37 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
And loses all of the c£80m he's put in so far. |
But without any investment he's lost that anyway.
So effectively he does have the option to cut future losses.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 00:12 - Mar 29 with 977 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:40 - Mar 28 by flashblue |
Just like a house or land, a football club does not make a profit but appreciates in value. They are not making any more of them. You can't just go out an buy an English football club.
ITFC is worth more now than it was when Evans bought it. |
Not really, it's a fairly simple sum (when reduced to the main components):
Value = Assets - Liabilities + Future Earns Potential
I'll fill it in for you:
Value = ~10m - 80m + (years intending to own * -8m)
Should discount the final value for time but doesn't really matter.
Not something I'd look to invest in really, would you?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| on 07:30 - Mar 29 with 912 views | _ |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:54 - Mar 28 by Benters |
yep fantastic work buffing those hospital floors.. |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:35 - Mar 29 with 902 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 23:43 - Mar 28 by flashblue |
Evans could recover all his investment and more at any time. Believe me, there are buyers out there if he wanted to sell. The world is a very small place with a lot of rich people looking for a home for their wealth.
But he doesn't want to sell, because the club will be worth even more in 5 years' time. |
That is a bare assertion with no apparent logical or factual foundation. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| on 07:41 - Mar 29 with 895 views | _ |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:35 - Mar 29 by sparks |
That is a bare assertion with no apparent logical or factual foundation. |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:42 - Mar 29 with 894 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 12:13 - Mar 28 by Benters |
If you get the right highly paid accountant they could do things many of us would never understand on here ! |
Sorry Benters but that is the sort of thing that is posted by people who don't understand the tax system. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:51 - Mar 29 with 873 views | trncbluearmy |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:42 - Mar 29 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry Benters but that is the sort of thing that is posted by people who don't understand the tax system. |
Wealthy people have used tax avoidance schemes (not tax evasion which is illegal) as advised by accountants for years
Perhaps your knowledge of tax can explain this small example
" For years wealthy individuals have avoided paying stamp-duty land transactions tax (SDLT) by buying properties through “corporate envelopes”.
I know google is your friend, but you would still need a knowledgeable accountant to make it work |  | | |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:55 - Mar 29 with 865 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 16:40 - Mar 28 by flashblue |
Just like a house or land, a football club does not make a profit but appreciates in value. They are not making any more of them. You can't just go out an buy an English football club.
ITFC is worth more now than it was when Evans bought it. |
Complete rubbish | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:57 - Mar 29 with 862 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:35 - Mar 29 by sparks |
That is a bare assertion with no apparent logical or factual foundation. |
Or, to put it another way, is absolute bollox! |  | | |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 08:05 - Mar 29 with 854 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 07:51 - Mar 29 by trncbluearmy |
Wealthy people have used tax avoidance schemes (not tax evasion which is illegal) as advised by accountants for years
Perhaps your knowledge of tax can explain this small example
" For years wealthy individuals have avoided paying stamp-duty land transactions tax (SDLT) by buying properties through “corporate envelopes”.
I know google is your friend, but you would still need a knowledgeable accountant to make it work |
What has this got to do with gaining over £8m of income tax by losing £8m a year?
It doesn't make sense. | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 08:08 - Mar 29 with 846 views | Axeldalai_lama |
I really don't understand how this topic is so hard to grasp for many people.
I think it's because they hate how rubbish we have become and so want to make everything Evans does as evil and as dastardly as possible. Yes he's been a pretty rubbish owner, yes as it stands we're going backwards, yes the season ticket malarky is a ridiculous joke, and many other massive massive problems.
BUT no Evans hasn't somehow magically made money from us by losing tens of millions of pounds.
As others have said, if you take away the debt buy down, and the money he offsets in taxes etc, he has probably averaged around 5 or 6 million a year loss. So probably 50 million or so total.
Whether this is enough to fund a club in our position is another debate, it's not if we want to actively push up the table, but it's still a chunk of money he's putting in.
Why is he doing it is a more pertinent point. I'm baffled in many ways. I guess exposure for the business, and on some level he enjoys it. How long that can possibly remain the case is another question. | | | |
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