| Happy Article 50 Day 09:09 - Mar 29 with 13112 views | pickles110564 |
At last all we have been waiting for. We are all now joined as one in the quest to make Britain Great again. We are all leavers! |  | | |  |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:42 - Mar 29 with 1655 views | Archer4721 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:39 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I gave you a Guardian and New Statesman link which both demonstrate how the two unelected Eurocrats were pout into place. Did you bother to read them?
Don't you know the first rule of debate? ‘Never cite Wikipedia.’ [Post edited 29 Mar 2017 15:39]
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Your first rule of debate is to copy and paste Guido. |  | | |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:43 - Mar 29 with 1653 views | J2BLUE |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:39 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I gave you a Guardian and New Statesman link which both demonstrate how the two unelected Eurocrats were pout into place. Did you bother to read them?
Don't you know the first rule of debate? ‘Never cite Wikipedia.’ [Post edited 29 Mar 2017 15:39]
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I have never found wikipedia to be incorrect other than the hilarious 'has signed for Ipswich' edits etc. Traditionally Wikipedia isn't a good source to cite but for informal debates it should be allowed. Move with the times. |  |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:43 - Mar 29 with 1649 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:42 - Mar 29 by Archer4721 |
Your first rule of debate is to copy and paste Guido. |
I just linked two articles from the Labour supporting New Stateman and the Guardian you halfwit. |  |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:45 - Mar 29 with 1634 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:43 - Mar 29 by J2BLUE |
I have never found wikipedia to be incorrect other than the hilarious 'has signed for Ipswich' edits etc. Traditionally Wikipedia isn't a good source to cite but for informal debates it should be allowed. Move with the times. |
Dolly obviously didn't bother reading the two articles I linked. If he did then he dismissed them and went with a quick wiki search.
To you and I that is laughable fact checking but to Dolly it's a step up from the Trews. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:50 - Mar 29 with 1608 views | No9 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 12:00 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes I can read wikiipedia.
Now you have accused me of telling lies. Put up or shut up. |
I erred, it was the PM of Italy & I should have put the fact for the PM of Greece
Both were appointed by the Presidents of their respective countries.
You should, as you know so much about the EU have noted that the people of the EU defeated the TTIP something Mr Cameron signed up to without telling Partliament.
It is not the EU that is undemocratic but the UK with a governemnt defeated on it's policies and with a PM that did not have to seek election |  | | |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:52 - Mar 29 with 1598 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:50 - Mar 29 by No9 |
I erred, it was the PM of Italy & I should have put the fact for the PM of Greece
Both were appointed by the Presidents of their respective countries.
You should, as you know so much about the EU have noted that the people of the EU defeated the TTIP something Mr Cameron signed up to without telling Partliament.
It is not the EU that is undemocratic but the UK with a governemnt defeated on it's policies and with a PM that did not have to seek election |
Perhaps you'll get the right country this time and the right Italian Prime Minister.
http://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/402319/3567935/happy-article-50-day/#post3567935
Now perhaps you'll also address points 1-6 which you consider to be lies. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:59 - Mar 29 with 1580 views | Kitman |
..it started wet and drizzly down in this manor. I was keen to get into the office today early and out of the wet to do some prep for - shall we say- a meeting with a rather difficult client. Heading across the pedestrian area towards my office door, I spotted a bespectacled lad in a black raincoat scribbling some notes on a whiteboard. As the only pedestrian in the vicinity he stopped what he was scribing and promptly jumped into my personal space.! Here we go I thought. An early morning Jehova's Witness or Scientologist or some other weird religious looney. Just what I don't need.
Anyway, he was thankfully nothing of the sort and announced that he was from BBC Radio Sussex anxious to ask the population of Crawley what their most up to date questions on Brexit now are. Good luck thought I and although tempted to dally a while to fire a few at the lad and with other thoughts on the impending meeting with the client from Hell, I simply asked him to let me know if there was any way if we could leave this shambles in any less a period than TWO years! |  |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:59 - Mar 29 with 1572 views | No9 |
If you could understand I have already dealt with 1
2/ I don't beleive you are right- So you will admit the UK is making things even worse by the deployment of a large army to the East?
3/ YOu are wrong
4/ It was the bankers that created and continue to create problems in the financial world
5/ as per 4
6/ You have been telling us this is the democratoc process haven't you but it is amatter fro individual government not soley the EU | | | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:09 - Mar 29 with 1551 views | feelingblue |
1. Same as politics almost everywhere. In fact we are as bad as most democratic, developed countries, and that has nothing to do with the EU
2. The eastward expansion of the EU from the time of the fall of the Iron Curtain was very specifically a British initiative.
3. Entirely a matter for national governments, who did nothing until the EU under pressure from Germany took the initiative.
4, 5 had much more to do with national governments failing to control their banking and construction sectors, and we were one of the worst.Some of the better run EU economies had almost no damage in the banking crisis.
6. How did they 'enable it' Did they change laws or something? If you mean that economic and social conditions have led to a rise in far right organisations, fair enough. |  | | |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:11 - Mar 29 with 1550 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:39 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I gave you a Guardian and New Statesman link which both demonstrate how the two unelected Eurocrats were pout into place. Did you bother to read them?
Don't you know the first rule of debate? ‘Never cite Wikipedia.’ [Post edited 29 Mar 2017 15:39]
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I read the first link. It's an opinion piece by some chap called David Skelton. Where is the evidence other than his opinion?
Wiki is very hot on accuracy... if something is wrong its contributors are quick to change it. It's an excellent resource, and is as legitimate (if not more so) as Mr. Skelton.
Are you going to address what Wiki actually says, or just rebuff it because it's Wiki?
I also note you've swerved my point about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU. That's what it says IN THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED TO!
I'd be grateful if you'd answer that inconsistency. |  |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:16 - Mar 29 with 1536 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:45 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Dolly obviously didn't bother reading the two articles I linked. If he did then he dismissed them and went with a quick wiki search.
To you and I that is laughable fact checking but to Dolly it's a step up from the Trews. |
Says someone who's been known to link to Buzzfeed!
You obviously have a lot of time on your hands. Some of us are at work... in which case Wikipedia is a quick and usually accurate way of avoiding reading through numerous and lengthy research articles to get to the facts. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:26 - Mar 29 with 1520 views | Swansea_Blue |
Cause and effect. You seem to be blaming the EU for anything that happens in the EU irrespective of cause, whilst simultaneously rejecting/ignoring any EU initiative to tackle said problems.
- Corruption - EU has shown strides to clean up its act and seems better in that regard that the UK now. Corruption is an issue still in general, and the EC does have some EU-wide initiatives, but Member States also have to take responsibility and can implement own legislation - see Sweden.
- Big business - EU programmes for business support and R&D often have SME-specific priorities. Several Directives put social or environmental priorities ahead of big business wishes, e.g. Water Framework Directive, Energy Efficiency Directive, Air Quality Directive.
- Yes, the Commission were slow to respond to the migrant crisis in terms of coordinated strategies, but that doesn't excuse Member States from shirking their responsibilities like we did. Also remember that we could have had a hand in preventing the situation developing in the first place in Syria, but chose to not intervene.
- Greece, Portugal, Spain, far from simple cases. Again, strongly linked to the global recession.
- Youth unemployment not unique to the EU, again recent increases and drops strongly linked to the global financial crisis and small recovery. The EU is pumping in €billions into youth training.
- Can't speak for other countries, but we have let things lurch to the right, ably abetted by our media who propagated a campaign of fear from the likes of UKIP. The EU policy of free migration may be their fuel, but time and again it has been shown that EU migrants are a benefit (and similarly UK citizens benefit reciprocally). Besides, recent events in Netherlands and Germany suggest things aren't as bad as feared.
- you're doing it to death here. |  |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:31 - Mar 29 with 1504 views | Kitman |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 14:12 - Mar 29 by Guthrum |
I'm reminded of the words of Lord Astley as he sat in the market place at Stown-on-the-Wold following the defeat of the last Royalist army at the end of the first part of the English Civil War: "Well, boys, you have done your work, now you may go and play–if you don't fall out among yourselves."
He was right. Within two years, fighting broke out again, many former Parliamentarians and their allies having by that time changed sides. |
...but wasn't the 2nd Civil War a result of the void left by the defeat of the King and Parliament having no real idea how to govern or what to do with the monarch? We still have and still will have a Head of Sate, a Government and a Parliament in 2 years time. ie business as usual.... | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 17:08 - Mar 29 with 1465 views | WeWereZombies |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 15:39 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I gave you a Guardian and New Statesman link which both demonstrate how the two unelected Eurocrats were pout into place. Did you bother to read them?
Don't you know the first rule of debate? ‘Never cite Wikipedia.’ [Post edited 29 Mar 2017 15:39]
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Wikipedia has come a long way in the last decade, it is very robust for such a wide ranging resource. I still feel slightly uncomfortable about using a site set up by a Scientologist (or is he a Mormon?) but to say 'never cite wikipedia' gives the impression of being elitist and out of touch by ten years. [Post edited 29 Mar 2017 17:17]
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 17:09 - Mar 29 with 1466 views | Guthrum |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:31 - Mar 29 by Kitman |
...but wasn't the 2nd Civil War a result of the void left by the defeat of the King and Parliament having no real idea how to govern or what to do with the monarch? We still have and still will have a Head of Sate, a Government and a Parliament in 2 years time. ie business as usual.... |
The Second Civil War was the result of a power struggle between the Presbyterians in Parliament and the Independents in the New Model Army (the latter also not having been paid by the former). Partly over their approach to dealing with the King (who played both sides off each other).
Royalists "having another go" and local disputes flaring up were added elements.
I'm not suggesting the scenario will be identical. But the various shades of Brexit factions disagreeing on the correct approach could turn the whole thing into a shambles, that's without adding in all the differing opinions on the EU side.
It will require a lot of nerve and extremely strong leadership to hold things on track. Does either side have that in sufficient quantities? |  |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 07:38 - Mar 30 with 1365 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 17:09 - Mar 29 by Guthrum |
The Second Civil War was the result of a power struggle between the Presbyterians in Parliament and the Independents in the New Model Army (the latter also not having been paid by the former). Partly over their approach to dealing with the King (who played both sides off each other).
Royalists "having another go" and local disputes flaring up were added elements.
I'm not suggesting the scenario will be identical. But the various shades of Brexit factions disagreeing on the correct approach could turn the whole thing into a shambles, that's without adding in all the differing opinions on the EU side.
It will require a lot of nerve and extremely strong leadership to hold things on track. Does either side have that in sufficient quantities? |
I always learn something from your posts Guthers. Your alternative career could've been teacher (assuming you're not one already)! | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 09:58 - Mar 30 with 1316 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 16:11 - Mar 29 by Dolly2.0 |
I read the first link. It's an opinion piece by some chap called David Skelton. Where is the evidence other than his opinion?
Wiki is very hot on accuracy... if something is wrong its contributors are quick to change it. It's an excellent resource, and is as legitimate (if not more so) as Mr. Skelton.
Are you going to address what Wiki actually says, or just rebuff it because it's Wiki?
I also note you've swerved my point about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU. That's what it says IN THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED TO!
I'd be grateful if you'd answer that inconsistency. |
Sorry Dollars this must have slipped down the board when I was in transit.
Please stop using a word you don’t understand the meaning of. I have had to educate you before:
swerve
verb
1.change or cause to change direction abruptly.
noun
1.an abrupt change of direction.
I didn’t’ change my direction in reply to you. I was continuing on the same path regarding the EU imposing unelected Prime Ministers on Italy and Greece. I didn’t swerve your point “about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU”. I ignored it.
Now back to the Greek and Italian Prime Ministers.
I could, of course, accuse you of serving my point regarding the Greek Prime Minister and only replying to the subject of the Italian Prime Minister. But like you, I would be wrong to do so. You ignored the point regarding the Greek PM. You didn’t swerve it. See how words work Dollers?
So your wiki quote “Monti was invited by President Giorgio Napolitano to form a new technocratic government following the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi.”
He was appointed by the President in the same way that the Queen invites British Prime Ministers to form a government. It has nothing to do with how they attain that position.
Monti was an Eurocrat. He wasn’t elected. His Cabinet didn’t include a single elected politician.
His appointment was akin to the EU deciding, in the last days of the Gordon Brown government, that EU Commissioner Neil Kinnock should be brought back to run the UK despite not being elected into any position in British politics.
Now I gave you two left leaning articles yesterday. You only read one and disputed it as an opinion piece. Herd are another two from the right.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2063756/Eurocrats-imposed-Greece-Italy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8884335/Left-and-Right-should-j
4 articles from opposing sides of the political spectrum reporting on the facts. Do you still wish to dispute them? | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:11 - Mar 30 with 1305 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 09:58 - Mar 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry Dollars this must have slipped down the board when I was in transit.
Please stop using a word you don’t understand the meaning of. I have had to educate you before:
swerve
verb
1.change or cause to change direction abruptly.
noun
1.an abrupt change of direction.
I didn’t’ change my direction in reply to you. I was continuing on the same path regarding the EU imposing unelected Prime Ministers on Italy and Greece. I didn’t swerve your point “about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU”. I ignored it.
Now back to the Greek and Italian Prime Ministers.
I could, of course, accuse you of serving my point regarding the Greek Prime Minister and only replying to the subject of the Italian Prime Minister. But like you, I would be wrong to do so. You ignored the point regarding the Greek PM. You didn’t swerve it. See how words work Dollers?
So your wiki quote “Monti was invited by President Giorgio Napolitano to form a new technocratic government following the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi.”
He was appointed by the President in the same way that the Queen invites British Prime Ministers to form a government. It has nothing to do with how they attain that position.
Monti was an Eurocrat. He wasn’t elected. His Cabinet didn’t include a single elected politician.
His appointment was akin to the EU deciding, in the last days of the Gordon Brown government, that EU Commissioner Neil Kinnock should be brought back to run the UK despite not being elected into any position in British politics.
Now I gave you two left leaning articles yesterday. You only read one and disputed it as an opinion piece. Herd are another two from the right.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2063756/Eurocrats-imposed-Greece-Italy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8884335/Left-and-Right-should-j
4 articles from opposing sides of the political spectrum reporting on the facts. Do you still wish to dispute them? |
"I didn’t swerve your point “about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU”. I ignored it. "
Hahahaha. You are priceless. Avoided. Ignored. Swerved. What difference does it make? You couldn't answer it. I caught you out, so you just avoided it. The debating equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalala".
Here's where I educate YOU. Check out point two below...
swerve
/swÉœËv/
verb
1.
to turn or cause to turn aside, usually sharply or suddenly, from a course
2.
(transitive) to avoid (a person or event)
noun
3.
the act, instance, or degree of swerving
AVOID. I've done you up like a kipper AGAIN! | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:17 - Mar 30 with 1299 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 09:58 - Mar 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry Dollars this must have slipped down the board when I was in transit.
Please stop using a word you don’t understand the meaning of. I have had to educate you before:
swerve
verb
1.change or cause to change direction abruptly.
noun
1.an abrupt change of direction.
I didn’t’ change my direction in reply to you. I was continuing on the same path regarding the EU imposing unelected Prime Ministers on Italy and Greece. I didn’t swerve your point “about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU”. I ignored it.
Now back to the Greek and Italian Prime Ministers.
I could, of course, accuse you of serving my point regarding the Greek Prime Minister and only replying to the subject of the Italian Prime Minister. But like you, I would be wrong to do so. You ignored the point regarding the Greek PM. You didn’t swerve it. See how words work Dollers?
So your wiki quote “Monti was invited by President Giorgio Napolitano to form a new technocratic government following the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi.”
He was appointed by the President in the same way that the Queen invites British Prime Ministers to form a government. It has nothing to do with how they attain that position.
Monti was an Eurocrat. He wasn’t elected. His Cabinet didn’t include a single elected politician.
His appointment was akin to the EU deciding, in the last days of the Gordon Brown government, that EU Commissioner Neil Kinnock should be brought back to run the UK despite not being elected into any position in British politics.
Now I gave you two left leaning articles yesterday. You only read one and disputed it as an opinion piece. Herd are another two from the right.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2063756/Eurocrats-imposed-Greece-Italy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8884335/Left-and-Right-should-j
4 articles from opposing sides of the political spectrum reporting on the facts. Do you still wish to dispute them? |
As to your other point - I still see nothing in those articles where there is evidence those PMs were installed by the EU. They worked for the EU previously is about as near as it gets.
They weren't elected, that's true. But show me a definitive piece of EVIDENCE that they were installed by the EU, rather than conjecture.
And please stop referring to articles being from either the left or the right, it's irrelevant to the EU. People from both sides are pro and anti the EU. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:31 - Mar 30 with 1281 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:11 - Mar 30 by Dolly2.0 |
"I didn’t swerve your point “about the bankruptcy of Greece being caused by bad decisions by the Greek central banks rather than the EU”. I ignored it. "
Hahahaha. You are priceless. Avoided. Ignored. Swerved. What difference does it make? You couldn't answer it. I caught you out, so you just avoided it. The debating equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalala".
Here's where I educate YOU. Check out point two below...
swerve
/swÉœËv/
verb
1.
to turn or cause to turn aside, usually sharply or suddenly, from a course
2.
(transitive) to avoid (a person or event)
noun
3.
the act, instance, or degree of swerving
AVOID. I've done you up like a kipper AGAIN! |
You'd have done me up like a kipper had I used the word avoid. I didn't.
Can we ad poor reading skills to you not understanding the meaning of words?  | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:40 - Mar 30 with 1267 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:31 - Mar 30 by GlasgowBlue |
You'd have done me up like a kipper had I used the word avoid. I didn't.
Can we ad poor reading skills to you not understanding the meaning of words? |
Oh dear. No I've done you up like a kipper by showing you that "swerve" also means "avoid". Doesn't say a lot for your reading skills seeing as I wrote that in the the post you're replying to!
And you're STILL avoiding the Greek bankruptcy point because you know I've got you on that too.
You're struggling here Glassers. Not your finest hour. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:43 - Mar 30 with 1257 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:40 - Mar 30 by Dolly2.0 |
Oh dear. No I've done you up like a kipper by showing you that "swerve" also means "avoid". Doesn't say a lot for your reading skills seeing as I wrote that in the the post you're replying to!
And you're STILL avoiding the Greek bankruptcy point because you know I've got you on that too.
You're struggling here Glassers. Not your finest hour. |
I haven't avoided anything. I have ignored one of your points whilst continuing on the same path with the other.
You really need to go back to school to understand the meaning of words otherwise you be stuck flogging Haribos when the goal is to secure the account of Maynard's Wine Gums. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:53 - Mar 30 with 1238 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:43 - Mar 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't avoided anything. I have ignored one of your points whilst continuing on the same path with the other.
You really need to go back to school to understand the meaning of words otherwise you be stuck flogging Haribos when the goal is to secure the account of Maynard's Wine Gums. |
What is wrong with you? Ignoring is the same as avoiding in this context.
Just answer the bluddy question or admit that you can't!
No.9 said you lied. Have I show that, on this point at least, he was correct? You said the Greek bankruptcy was down to the EU and then linked to an article YOURSELF that says it was down to decisions by the Greek central banks.
Massive own goal by you... and now you're avoiding it like a squirming politician. Jeremy Paxman would tear you to pieces! | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 11:00 - Mar 30 with 1220 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:53 - Mar 30 by Dolly2.0 |
What is wrong with you? Ignoring is the same as avoiding in this context.
Just answer the bluddy question or admit that you can't!
No.9 said you lied. Have I show that, on this point at least, he was correct? You said the Greek bankruptcy was down to the EU and then linked to an article YOURSELF that says it was down to decisions by the Greek central banks.
Massive own goal by you... and now you're avoiding it like a squirming politician. Jeremy Paxman would tear you to pieces! |
I ignored one of your points in order to pursue the debate in another. The main point you seemed to take issue with was the imposition of the Italian Prime Ninsiter. For some reason you availed or ignored the Greek Prime Minister.
In most debates people deal with one point at a time. The point regarding the Greek financial crisis would then be addressed once we had reached agreement in the first point. I had every intention of doing so.
Unfortunately you climax prematurely before the debate can take its natural course.
So that's how to debate now added to understanding the meaning of words you have to learn.
Always happy to help. | |
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| Happy Article 50 Day on 11:18 - Mar 30 with 1190 views | No9 |
| Happy Article 50 Day on 10:53 - Mar 30 by Dolly2.0 |
What is wrong with you? Ignoring is the same as avoiding in this context.
Just answer the bluddy question or admit that you can't!
No.9 said you lied. Have I show that, on this point at least, he was correct? You said the Greek bankruptcy was down to the EU and then linked to an article YOURSELF that says it was down to decisions by the Greek central banks.
Massive own goal by you... and now you're avoiding it like a squirming politician. Jeremy Paxman would tear you to pieces! |
A major factor in the Greek economic tradgedy is the fact the government of the day failed to collect taxes from the rich.
A lot of Greek wealth is in shipping which is international so tax liabilities in the homeland is easily avoided.
The rest I agree with | | | |
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