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Happy Article 50 Day on 10:04 - Mar 29 by bracknell_blue
Never been a leaver, never will be. Spent a lot of time working and travelling in the EU during my career, and it breaks my heart to see us turning back on our friends there.
Do you want to go back to the days of Empire, when we all knew our place, had not time for Johnny Foreigner and black people were savages?
Hyperbole is running wild on this thread. How on earth can you equate leaving the EU with going back to the days when "black people were savages".
I see leaving the EU as a very forward thinking progressive thing to do. It's a risk but I'm so pleased the UK decided to take it.
What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow? What do you mean? An African or European swallow? Huh? I... I don't know that ... Auuuuuuuugh.
Happy Article 50 Day on 10:04 - Mar 29 by bracknell_blue
Never been a leaver, never will be. Spent a lot of time working and travelling in the EU during my career, and it breaks my heart to see us turning back on our friends there.
Do you want to go back to the days of Empire, when we all knew our place, had not time for Johnny Foreigner and black people were savages?
Christ. For every Ipswich Crazy on the leave side there is a swivel eyed loon like you on remain.
Happy Article 50 Day on 10:04 - Mar 29 by bracknell_blue
Never been a leaver, never will be. Spent a lot of time working and travelling in the EU during my career, and it breaks my heart to see us turning back on our friends there.
Do you want to go back to the days of Empire, when we all knew our place, had not time for Johnny Foreigner and black people were savages?
Time to move on. Accept the vote and lets make Britain grate again!
Happy Article 50 Day on 10:44 - Mar 29 by BlueBadger
In all fairness, Call Me Dave, George Osborne and Jeremy Rhyming-Slang are exactly inspiring, trustworthy charismatic figures you could get behind, are they?
I'm reminded of the words of Lord Astley as he sat in the market place at Stown-on-the-Wold following the defeat of the last Royalist army at the end of the first part of the English Civil War: "Well, boys, you have done your work, now you may go and play–if you don't fall out among yourselves."
He was right. Within two years, fighting broke out again, many former Parliamentarians and their allies having by that time changed sides.
Happy Article 50 Day on 12:00 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue
Yes I can read wikiipedia.
Now you have accused me of telling lies. Put up or shut up.
I don't know the details but I think he's saying you're lying by saying the EU "replaced elected Prime Ministers of Italy and Greece with their own Eurocrats - bypassing the democratic process."
A quick Wiki search brings up this on the Italian Prime Minister:
"On 7 December 2016, Prime Minister Matteo Renzi announced his resignation, following the rejection of his proposals to overhaul the Italian Senate in the 2016 Italian constitutional referendum. A few days later, on 11 December 2016, Gentiloni was asked by President Mattarella to form a new government.[23][23] On the following day Gentiloni was officially sworn in as the new head of the government.[24]"
Happy Article 50 Day on 14:20 - Mar 29 by Dolly2.0
I don't know the details but I think he's saying you're lying by saying the EU "replaced elected Prime Ministers of Italy and Greece with their own Eurocrats - bypassing the democratic process."
A quick Wiki search brings up this on the Italian Prime Minister:
"On 7 December 2016, Prime Minister Matteo Renzi announced his resignation, following the rejection of his proposals to overhaul the Italian Senate in the 2016 Italian constitutional referendum. A few days later, on 11 December 2016, Gentiloni was asked by President Mattarella to form a new government.[23][23] On the following day Gentiloni was officially sworn in as the new head of the government.[24]"
So in what way did the EU put him in power?
They didn't. It beggars belief that people are so ill informed on the subjects they are debating.
Happy Article 50 Day on 13:55 - Mar 29 by Dolly2.0
Or Boris and Nige on the other side?
Inspiring and trustworthy they are not, but they've got charisma in spades compared to Osborne and Cameron.
Besides, it was all about the messaging and slogan. Take Back Control - remain had no answer to that. It doesn't matter that it's misleading, it worked. Timing was good too - off the back of a financial crisis so people were feeling vulnerable, we'd been stoked up for years into an immigrant-fearing populace thanks to Farage's career-long crusade. Stir up the emotions, proudly bang our chests patriotically and point to the nearest different people as the root of all our ails, real or imagined.
Common sense arguments were brushed aside as if in some way trivialised by their complexity beyond a slogan and we were told that experts had lost their relevance to the modern world.
Gawpy, geeky, pallid Cameron and Osborne, with about as much charisma between them as a stick of limp celery, had no chance against the emotive onslaught.
But what happens next if things don't change for the downtrodden in society? What happens if the waiting lists blamed on immigration continue to grow in the face of ever deeper cuts? Where do we go next if people on zero hours contracts remain on zero hours contracts at the mercy of the cats, fattening themselves as they always have done outside of the moral obligations to contribute to the public purse that hold the rest of us? How will the miners and steelworkers feel they've been treated if they continue to wait in vain for the return of valleys full of the sound of rumbling heavy machinery, making Britain great again through the making of things? Who will we blame as school class sizes continue to rise in stark contrast to the direction of our attainment ratings?
Who will we blame when we can no longer blame the EU? And what will become of the politicians and parties who promised so much if they can't deliver? What then will happen to the fragile threads that attaches them still to the people? if the mainstream parties exhaust their credibility, what or who fills the void?
Happy Article 50 Day on 14:27 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue
They didn't. It beggars belief that people are so ill informed on the subjects they are debating.
I never mentioned Paolo Gentiloni.
He originally said this....."replaced elected Prime Ministers of Italy and Greece with their own Eurocrats - bypassing the democratic process. ".....maybe somebody he hasn't blocked should just ask him to share his wisdom as to what he is alluding .
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Happy Article 50 Day on 14:57 - Mar 29 by Dolly2.0
Which Italian and Greek Prime Ministers did the EU put in power in those countries then? I genuinely don't know.
Firstly going back to No9.I listed several things I believed were wrong with the EU:
1 A corrupt organisation run by and on behalf of big business 2 Created the tensions in Ukraine with it's expansionist agenda 3 Turned it's back on millions of refugees until the scenes on our TV screens became an embarrassment 4 Bankrupted the economies of Greece, Portugal and Spain 5 Created the highest youth unemployment since records began 6 Enabled the fascist far right to take a foothold in most EU countries 7 Replaced elected Prime Ministers of Italy and Greece with their own Eurocrats - bypassing the democratic process.
No 9’s reply was LIES!!
I asked him to point out what parts of the list were lies. The only reply I got was two copy and paste wiki links, one of which was to the Spanish Prime Minster and the other to the current Prime Minister of Italy.
Taking aside the fact that he didn’t attempt to debunk my points 1-6, I never mentioned the Prime Minster of Spain and he linked the wiki page for a completely different Prime Minister of Italy.
Now to your question: What Italian and Greek Prime Ministers did the EU put in power in those countries? Mario Monti and Lucas Papademos.
This was a shameful example of the EU bypassing the ballot box for what they believed to be the greater good.
Happy Article 50 Day on 15:12 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue
Firstly going back to No9.I listed several things I believed were wrong with the EU:
1 A corrupt organisation run by and on behalf of big business 2 Created the tensions in Ukraine with it's expansionist agenda 3 Turned it's back on millions of refugees until the scenes on our TV screens became an embarrassment 4 Bankrupted the economies of Greece, Portugal and Spain 5 Created the highest youth unemployment since records began 6 Enabled the fascist far right to take a foothold in most EU countries 7 Replaced elected Prime Ministers of Italy and Greece with their own Eurocrats - bypassing the democratic process.
No 9’s reply was LIES!!
I asked him to point out what parts of the list were lies. The only reply I got was two copy and paste wiki links, one of which was to the Spanish Prime Minster and the other to the current Prime Minister of Italy.
Taking aside the fact that he didn’t attempt to debunk my points 1-6, I never mentioned the Prime Minster of Spain and he linked the wiki page for a completely different Prime Minister of Italy.
Now to your question: What Italian and Greek Prime Ministers did the EU put in power in those countries? Mario Monti and Lucas Papademos.
This was a shameful example of the EU bypassing the ballot box for what they believed to be the greater good.
You'll note that I have purposely linked two left wing non Tory publications so as not to get the standard "Torygraph" reply.
I don't know why you listed all that other stuff, I only asked who were the PMs installed in those countries by the EU.
A quick search tells me this;
"Monti was invited by President Giorgio Napolitano to form a new technocratic government following the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi."
So in what way did the EU install him?
And then the other chap...
"Papademos was first proposed as a potential caretaker Prime Minister of Greece in early November 2011, after Prime Minister George Papandreou offered to resign and allow a provisional coalition government to deal with the major political turmoil caused by the country's debt crisis."
Again, in what way did the EU install him?
Also, your original post stated that the EU "Bankrupted the economies of Greece..." but the first article you linked to states, "There is a great irony in a central banker being imposed as Prime Minister following a debt crisis fuelled by poor central bank decisions."
So was it poor central bank decisions in Greece that bankrupted them or the EU?
Happy Article 50 Day on 15:35 - Mar 29 by Dolly2.0
I don't know why you listed all that other stuff, I only asked who were the PMs installed in those countries by the EU.
A quick search tells me this;
"Monti was invited by President Giorgio Napolitano to form a new technocratic government following the resignation of Silvio Berlusconi."
So in what way did the EU install him?
And then the other chap...
"Papademos was first proposed as a potential caretaker Prime Minister of Greece in early November 2011, after Prime Minister George Papandreou offered to resign and allow a provisional coalition government to deal with the major political turmoil caused by the country's debt crisis."
Again, in what way did the EU install him?
Also, your original post stated that the EU "Bankrupted the economies of Greece..." but the first article you linked to states, "There is a great irony in a central banker being imposed as Prime Minister following a debt crisis fuelled by poor central bank decisions."
So was it poor central bank decisions in Greece that bankrupted them or the EU?
Yours, Confused of Brixton.
I gave you a Guardian and New Statesman link which both demonstrate how the two unelected Eurocrats were pout into place. Did you bother to read them?
Don't you know the first rule of debate? ‘Never cite Wikipedia.’
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