| Kenlock v Knudsen... 11:37 - Apr 16 with 5180 views | olimar |
The problem I have with this is that we spent £300k on Knudsen, which may be a relatively small amount, but it happens to be the third highest transfer fee we have paid out in 5 years.
I dont think anyone can really argue that he didnt make a particularly great impression last season and that, given his age, he was perhaps one for the future who needed time to settle.
But at the same time, we had a player in our own academy who, to my admittedly untrained eye, looked to have more potential in his fleeting appearances than Knudsen did in the 40+ starts he was afforded.
What we needed last year was a stop gap- a player who could come in immediately and perform at a strong level for two years whilst our own development player was slowly fed into the team. Rather than another player, at a reasonable fee, who also needed developing at the same time, at the detriment of the first team.
It strikes me that we should have just stuck with Parr for 2 seasons, as a relatively cheap but capable left back. |  | | |  |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 12:51 - Apr 16 with 4552 views | kizaitfc |
Dont think fans can moan about the lack of investment and then claim we shouldnt have taken the punt of £300k who was highly rated at his club.
I personally think he has been okay, he hasnt been helped by a lack of winger in front of him, and i certainly think he was solid at the left side of the CBs in a three.
Parr was not good enough and Kenlock would have been a gamble to have him as first choice. If you look back to the start of the season it was actually Emmanuel that was looking like the real prospect not Kenlock.
Last of all I would pay over £300k for a player that would score 2 goals against the scum! | |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 12:58 - Apr 16 with 4519 views | Steve_M |
Maybe, although I'm not sure anyone really expected Kenlock to become a first team player two seasons ago. His progress over the last year has been good but I think it was slightly unexpected.
Knudsen seems exactly the right kind of signing for the club to make after Mings, a young player who can develop. Whether he is quite good enough for that is another matter, certainly his decision making, especially on the ball, is poor but I think defensively he is fairly good and his overlapping runs have helped Lawrence this season. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 13:16 - Apr 16 with 4453 views | J2BLUE |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 12:51 - Apr 16 by kizaitfc |
Dont think fans can moan about the lack of investment and then claim we shouldnt have taken the punt of £300k who was highly rated at his club.
I personally think he has been okay, he hasnt been helped by a lack of winger in front of him, and i certainly think he was solid at the left side of the CBs in a three.
Parr was not good enough and Kenlock would have been a gamble to have him as first choice. If you look back to the start of the season it was actually Emmanuel that was looking like the real prospect not Kenlock.
Last of all I would pay over £300k for a player that would score 2 goals against the scum! |
Don't think he's moaning. Just questioning whether it was a good use of very limited funds and it's a fair point. Remember when Mings was sold? People thought Parr was a ready and waiting replacement. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 14:50 - Apr 16 with 4333 views | tractorshark |
I liked Parr but he was very flaky with injuries.
Kenlock has progressed well but I suspect he'll have a dip.
I'm quite happy to have competition between him and Knudsen. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:21 - Apr 16 with 4264 views | BlueBadger |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 14:50 - Apr 16 by tractorshark |
I liked Parr but he was very flaky with injuries.
Kenlock has progressed well but I suspect he'll have a dip.
I'm quite happy to have competition between him and Knudsen. |
Personally, I suspect Knudsen's long term future will involve him moving to centre half. Particularly if we're going to continue playing 5-3-2. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:25 - Apr 16 with 4260 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 13:16 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
Don't think he's moaning. Just questioning whether it was a good use of very limited funds and it's a fair point. Remember when Mings was sold? People thought Parr was a ready and waiting replacement. |
We signed a Danish international for £300k, who had been one of their best players at his previous club and due to a clause in his contract allowing him to leave for that amount if he left Denmark.
They had valued him over £1m apparently at the time of sale, but the new contract he'd signed meant their hands were tied.
Knudsen is still the better defender of the two. Kenlock offers more going forwards. Neither is the complete answer right now.
Hopefully both will continue to develop and be more free to play their natural games under a new manager. Knudsen was an overlapping, ball playing LB in Denmark [Post edited 16 Apr 2017 15:27]
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:27 - Apr 16 with 4247 views | Superfrans |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 13:16 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
Don't think he's moaning. Just questioning whether it was a good use of very limited funds and it's a fair point. Remember when Mings was sold? People thought Parr was a ready and waiting replacement. |
Hadn't Parr gone by the time Mings went? Not saying for sure, but thought that was the case. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:59 - Apr 16 with 4180 views | jas0999 |
Thought he was better last season than most of this. But goals against Norwich has certainly helped overlook some poor displays. Kenlock is in my opinion the better player. | | | |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 17:47 - Apr 16 with 4049 views | clive_baker |
It's very easy with the benefit of hindsight though. I don't rate Knudsen at all, I think he's a liability defensively and I would definitely be in favour of Kenlock making that spot his own. Having said that, when we're signing a 22 year old Danish international (admittedly a couple of caps but still), it's impossible to say quite how he'll take to life over here and kick on with his development. Similarly, it's would've been hard to know how then 17 / 18 year old Kenlock will develop. It still is arguably. We've had more promising players than Kenlock at that age who haven't made it. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 19:48 - Apr 16 with 3919 views | braveblue |
Kenlock is good. Knudsen is poor. Simple. Knudsen does look better in the middle. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:07 - Apr 16 with 3802 views | Mullet |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 17:47 - Apr 16 by clive_baker |
It's very easy with the benefit of hindsight though. I don't rate Knudsen at all, I think he's a liability defensively and I would definitely be in favour of Kenlock making that spot his own. Having said that, when we're signing a 22 year old Danish international (admittedly a couple of caps but still), it's impossible to say quite how he'll take to life over here and kick on with his development. Similarly, it's would've been hard to know how then 17 / 18 year old Kenlock will develop. It still is arguably. We've had more promising players than Kenlock at that age who haven't made it. |
As good as Kenlock was Friday night, it was interesting to hear Dubbers contrast that with his Fulham performance. I think it's interesting how we see our youths and probably little different across most clubs.
I wonder if Knudsen came in similar to Peters did (age wise rather than method) he'd be regarded completely differently at this moment in time. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:16 - Apr 16 with 3783 views | Mullet |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:27 - Apr 16 by Superfrans |
Hadn't Parr gone by the time Mings went? Not saying for sure, but thought that was the case. |
Parr wanted out and a return home certainly. I think the timing was fairly unfortunate from memory too. | |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:48 - Apr 16 with 3731 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:07 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
As good as Kenlock was Friday night, it was interesting to hear Dubbers contrast that with his Fulham performance. I think it's interesting how we see our youths and probably little different across most clubs.
I wonder if Knudsen came in similar to Peters did (age wise rather than method) he'd be regarded completely differently at this moment in time. |
I thought Kenlock had a poor game at Fulham. But individual games arent really the point- hes going to have poor games and hes going to have good games whilst hes developing. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:49 - Apr 16 with 3725 views | Mullet |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:48 - Apr 16 by olimar |
I thought Kenlock had a poor game at Fulham. But individual games arent really the point- hes going to have poor games and hes going to have good games whilst hes developing. |
Completely agree but the views around good and bad performances are in stark contrast for either player which is more the point. I'm pleased to have both to be honest. | |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 21:59 - Apr 16 with 3706 views | BackToRussia |
Put Knudsen in the middle, Chambers too, get rid of Berra. Chambers, Smith, Webster and Knudsen, pick 3 out of them and stick Emmanuel and Kenlock as wing backs. Knudsen will be a good sub to have if he drops out, being able to play wing back or centre back. |  |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:03 - Apr 16 with 3696 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 17:47 - Apr 16 by clive_baker |
It's very easy with the benefit of hindsight though. I don't rate Knudsen at all, I think he's a liability defensively and I would definitely be in favour of Kenlock making that spot his own. Having said that, when we're signing a 22 year old Danish international (admittedly a couple of caps but still), it's impossible to say quite how he'll take to life over here and kick on with his development. Similarly, it's would've been hard to know how then 17 / 18 year old Kenlock will develop. It still is arguably. We've had more promising players than Kenlock at that age who haven't made it. |
Agreed, but there is also foresight required.
I can understand that MM might misjudge a player, but at this moment in time, we have two players who are both in need of time and games to develop, in exactly the same position. I dont see that our wage bill/budget can absorb developing two players at the same time for insurance, in case one of them doesnt work out, particularly when one of them cost £300k.
Its a perfect example of where the lack of a Director of Football hurts the club. At a club like Southampton (for the benchmark in this area), I dont think anyone would have sanctioned spending £10m (for a relative cost) on a fullback that needed development when they had another one coming through who might offer the same in another year. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:06 - Apr 16 with 3685 views | Mullet |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:03 - Apr 16 by olimar |
Agreed, but there is also foresight required.
I can understand that MM might misjudge a player, but at this moment in time, we have two players who are both in need of time and games to develop, in exactly the same position. I dont see that our wage bill/budget can absorb developing two players at the same time for insurance, in case one of them doesnt work out, particularly when one of them cost £300k.
Its a perfect example of where the lack of a Director of Football hurts the club. At a club like Southampton (for the benchmark in this area), I dont think anyone would have sanctioned spending £10m (for a relative cost) on a fullback that needed development when they had another one coming through who might offer the same in another year. |
Surely all clubs do that though? The ones that don't play or work out are moved on again in most cases. | |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:12 - Apr 16 with 3672 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:06 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
Surely all clubs do that though? The ones that don't play or work out are moved on again in most cases. |
Indeed and we do quite a bit of that too! Oar, while the fee was zero, was an expensive mistake for example. Same with Cameron Stewart who cost us over £1m in his stint here.
As i pointed out earlier in this thread, Knudsen was and still probably is a worthwhile investment and signing for us | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:14 - Apr 16 with 3669 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:21 - Apr 16 by BlueBadger |
Personally, I suspect Knudsen's long term future will involve him moving to centre half. Particularly if we're going to continue playing 5-3-2. |
Id be surprised to see Mick playing a back three of Knudsen, Smith and Webster next year, that feels like an inexperienced mess. If neither Berra or Chambers is re-signed, then I would expect MM to bring in at least one other CB, possibly Taylor (though Im not sure about that) and I would see that Knudsen would be the odd one out. I cant see MM dropping Smith or Webster or a new signing to play Knudsen there. For all that he talked up Knudsens performances in a back three- and he clearly looked more composed there than anywhere else- he hasnt been prepared to try it again as soon as he had his other CBs available.
If MM isnt in charge, I imagine a new manager might have even less interest in trying to find a way to fit in a player that he doesnt have anything to prove with. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:18 - Apr 16 with 3646 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 15:27 - Apr 16 by Superfrans |
Hadn't Parr gone by the time Mings went? Not saying for sure, but thought that was the case. |
Parr moved on last winter, citing a move home. Its hard to judge if he would have made the same decision if he was in the team or not. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:28 - Apr 16 with 3622 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 12:58 - Apr 16 by Steve_M |
Maybe, although I'm not sure anyone really expected Kenlock to become a first team player two seasons ago. His progress over the last year has been good but I think it was slightly unexpected.
Knudsen seems exactly the right kind of signing for the club to make after Mings, a young player who can develop. Whether he is quite good enough for that is another matter, certainly his decision making, especially on the ball, is poor but I think defensively he is fairly good and his overlapping runs have helped Lawrence this season. |
I cant argue with trying to develop players for our future, its certainly the route everyone would want to follow, but it feels like we bought in a prospect when we have little to spend and when he isnt, well, a prospect, it seems.
At this point in time, it seems like MM has misjudged the potential of both players. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:37 - Apr 16 with 3602 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:06 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
Surely all clubs do that though? The ones that don't play or work out are moved on again in most cases. |
The difference is that usually they are at considerably different stages of development. Otherwise they get in each others way, particularly in such a specialised position. Its like us deciding to develop Crowe as our No.2 keeper next year and then also spending £300k on another young keeper who needs development. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:42 - Apr 16 with 3599 views | Mullet |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:37 - Apr 16 by olimar |
The difference is that usually they are at considerably different stages of development. Otherwise they get in each others way, particularly in such a specialised position. Its like us deciding to develop Crowe as our No.2 keeper next year and then also spending £300k on another young keeper who needs development. |
I'm not sure LB is as specialised as GK per se, but fair enough. I think you're using hindsight a little too much in fairness but I get what you mean. I wonder if Mick is happy with Jonas or not? If he's kicked on as much as he hoped? I bet he doesn't see the criticisms that present themselves on here certainly. | |
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| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 23:06 - Apr 16 with 3546 views | olimar |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 22:42 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
I'm not sure LB is as specialised as GK per se, but fair enough. I think you're using hindsight a little too much in fairness but I get what you mean. I wonder if Mick is happy with Jonas or not? If he's kicked on as much as he hoped? I bet he doesn't see the criticisms that present themselves on here certainly. |
I think it will be interesting to see how a new manager, without the weight of responsibility for buying him, would deal with him. My feeling is that they would ultimately look to move him on, probably not immediately.
Personally, and this will sound like hindsight, but after Id seen him play a dozen times it wasnt so much that I didnt think he looked all that special- players need to settle, I get that sometimes takes a while. It was more that I didnt see anything in his game that made me think "theres a player in there somewhere". As I said in the OP, Im no expert of course.
Id add that when I saw Kenlock play, I was immediately struck by his composure on the ball and his willingness to break forward. | | | |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 23:10 - Apr 16 with 3535 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Kenlock v Knudsen... on 23:06 - Apr 16 by olimar |
I think it will be interesting to see how a new manager, without the weight of responsibility for buying him, would deal with him. My feeling is that they would ultimately look to move him on, probably not immediately.
Personally, and this will sound like hindsight, but after Id seen him play a dozen times it wasnt so much that I didnt think he looked all that special- players need to settle, I get that sometimes takes a while. It was more that I didnt see anything in his game that made me think "theres a player in there somewhere". As I said in the OP, Im no expert of course.
Id add that when I saw Kenlock play, I was immediately struck by his composure on the ball and his willingness to break forward. |
Your last comment there is telling. Kenlock is better going forwards and that is clear. He's also benefited from Mick playing a formation better suited to his game later in this season as a wingback in the main.
Knudsen is still the better out and out defender. Maybe Kenlock will learn that side of the game in time.
I'd predict a new manager throwing all up in the air a bit and these two competing for another 12 months | | | |
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