| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:44 - Apr 28 with 2535 views | Swansea_Blue |
The thread the other day about the FT series this week put May's comments here into context. It's not so much a case of them lining up to oppose us, rather more presenting a united front to protect their own interests. And it's a position we knew we would be in - the EU were very clear on how they were going to approach this from day 1.
Any difficulties that arise from the negotiations we brought on ourselves. After all, we're the ones that wanted to leave. But we also need to remember It's also in their interests that both sides get as reasonable a deal as can be managed. There's no need to be confrontational at this stage (or at any stage maybe).
Why is May stirring us up over this? What's she trying to achieve? Is this her trying to demonstrate her "strong and stable" leadership qualities - i.e. this posturing is more about the election than Brexit? |  |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:48 - Apr 28 with 2530 views | Darth_Koont |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:39 - Apr 28 by Swansea_Blue |
It wouldn't because you're not at the wrong end of it. I'm not either thankfully, but rising child poverty levels, cuts to disability allowances, freezes on working age benefits, record numbers on temporary contracts or zero hours contracts, exclusion of young adults from housing allowances, a doubling of homelessness since 2010, etc., etc., means that to a lot of people it's a real issue and they're struggling. As seen by the phenomenal increase in food parcels being handed out, for example.
There's a lot of people who can't get pulled up on the coattails of the rich. I've no problem with wheedling out scroungers, but can't help but feel that Tory policy excludes a lot of society. Doesn't feel like a party for the common person to me.
And that's before we get to not looking after the environment and by extension public health by raising fossil fuel subsidies, cutting renewable initiatives, failing to comply with directives and regulations on air quality.... But that's a whole different story. |
On a related note, I think this trickle-down economics way of looking at national "prosperity" is a huge and deeply flawed ideological blind spot.
I'm sure we'll look back on it in a few years and see it as we saw totalitarian communism. Yes, it provides some short-term strength and direction but disguises a creeping, underlying weakness that will eventually bring it crashing down. The political chaos in the US and the UK - two of libertarian prosperity's biggest proponents over the years — seems to be one of the major cracks appearing. Certainly, the chaos has been instigated by the people who have been left behind and aren't seeing the benefits flowing down to them as promised. |  |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:56 - Apr 28 with 2507 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:48 - Apr 28 by Darth_Koont |
On a related note, I think this trickle-down economics way of looking at national "prosperity" is a huge and deeply flawed ideological blind spot.
I'm sure we'll look back on it in a few years and see it as we saw totalitarian communism. Yes, it provides some short-term strength and direction but disguises a creeping, underlying weakness that will eventually bring it crashing down. The political chaos in the US and the UK - two of libertarian prosperity's biggest proponents over the years — seems to be one of the major cracks appearing. Certainly, the chaos has been instigated by the people who have been left behind and aren't seeing the benefits flowing down to them as promised. |
Turkeys voting for Christmas though isn't it. Trump, the UKIP/the Brexit camp, and now with Macron being the frontrunner in France. Hardly anti-establishment and all personify the system we're describing. (Trump financially, if not politically).
You sum up the situation more eloquently than I did, but I can't see it changing any time soon. I don't know what the answer is. | |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:05 - Apr 28 with 2491 views | Archer4721 |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 10:17 - Apr 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Income inequality doesn't bother me in the slightest.
If the rich get richer at a faster rate than the poor get richer, the poor at least are still getting richer.
income inequality stats showing a smaller gap isn't much good if the rich get poorer and the poor stay poor. |
"Income inequality doesn't bother me in the slightest."
Shame on you.Said like a true self serving tory
Here's a little reminder from a couple of years ago of how we're all in this together.
Britain’s billionaires have seen their net worth more than double since the recession, with the richest 1,000 families now controlling a total of £547bn...
In contrast to the soaring incomes of the richest, the Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank says average household incomes have only recently recovered from the banking crash, leaving them no better off than in 2008. Median household income in the most recent financial year was at around the same level as it was in 2007—08 before the recession, though still more than 2% below its 2009—10 peak.
The richest 1,000 families have more money than the poorest 40% of British households combined, according to the Equality Trust. Last year they saw their wealth increase by £28bn, the equivalent of £77m a day.
The annual increase is enough to foot the nation’s council tax bills for a year, provide nearly 2m living-wage jobs for a year or 1m jobs paid at the average full-time wage of £27,195, said the trust...
Attracted by ever increasing property prices and the non-dom laws which allow UK residents with foreign passports to shelter their offshore assets from tax, the world’s super-rich are still flocking to London. Of the 117 billionaires who feature in the list, only 62 are British, and the Queen herself has now dropped out of the richest 300 for the first time.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/apr/26/recession-rich-britains-wealthi |  | | |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:14 - Apr 28 with 2468 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:05 - Apr 28 by Archer4721 |
"Income inequality doesn't bother me in the slightest."
Shame on you.Said like a true self serving tory
Here's a little reminder from a couple of years ago of how we're all in this together.
Britain’s billionaires have seen their net worth more than double since the recession, with the richest 1,000 families now controlling a total of £547bn...
In contrast to the soaring incomes of the richest, the Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank says average household incomes have only recently recovered from the banking crash, leaving them no better off than in 2008. Median household income in the most recent financial year was at around the same level as it was in 2007—08 before the recession, though still more than 2% below its 2009—10 peak.
The richest 1,000 families have more money than the poorest 40% of British households combined, according to the Equality Trust. Last year they saw their wealth increase by £28bn, the equivalent of £77m a day.
The annual increase is enough to foot the nation’s council tax bills for a year, provide nearly 2m living-wage jobs for a year or 1m jobs paid at the average full-time wage of £27,195, said the trust...
Attracted by ever increasing property prices and the non-dom laws which allow UK residents with foreign passports to shelter their offshore assets from tax, the world’s super-rich are still flocking to London. Of the 117 billionaires who feature in the list, only 62 are British, and the Queen herself has now dropped out of the richest 300 for the first time.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/apr/26/recession-rich-britains-wealthi |
I can see where he comes from in all fairness, as IF the trickle-down approach works well then everyone benefits. Trouble is there are so many indicators that people at the bottom are really struggling, it certainly doesn't appear to be working.
It's a difficult subject as if you knock the rich it's seen as jealousy. And people need to be incentivised to make a go of things and do well for themselves financially, if that's what turns them on.
But your bottom paragraph hits the nail on the head; when the system turns a blind eye to eye watering levels of tax evasion and processes and regulations favour the top earners, or when top executives are rewarded for failure, or when banks are bailed out but traditional industries aren't, it's hard to swallow for the majority. Poverty is bad enough, to be treated unfairly on top of it is the ultimate insult. [Post edited 28 Apr 2017 12:15]
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:22 - Apr 28 with 2453 views | Darth_Koont |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:56 - Apr 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Turkeys voting for Christmas though isn't it. Trump, the UKIP/the Brexit camp, and now with Macron being the frontrunner in France. Hardly anti-establishment and all personify the system we're describing. (Trump financially, if not politically).
You sum up the situation more eloquently than I did, but I can't see it changing any time soon. I don't know what the answer is. |
The answer is to find strength in numbers with our Europe neighbours and champion more advanced thinking on the needs of modern, sustainable societies. Societies where a balance between liberty and equality, freedom and justice can be found ...
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:57 - Apr 28 with 2421 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:22 - Apr 28 by Darth_Koont |
The answer is to find strength in numbers with our Europe neighbours and champion more advanced thinking on the needs of modern, sustainable societies. Societies where a balance between liberty and equality, freedom and justice can be found ...
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Or get a big bus and paint a slogan on the side - it would be bigly! | |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 13:38 - Apr 28 with 2379 views | No9 |
The woman is making a complete pigs ear of this.
She doesn't understand what leaving means.
Bit like a woman leaving her husband = she wants the house, the car, the TV, Hi Fi, furniture, greenhouse, premium bonds AND, the husbands wages.
The reality surely is that you have to leave then negotiate what you want in the future realising of course, you may not get everythign you want or, even need ?? |  | | |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 14:22 - Apr 28 with 2362 views | No9 |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:05 - Apr 28 by chicoazul |
The whole country is screwed beyond belief. I'd emigrate if I was younger. |
Me too, I regret the fact I didn't whne given good opportunities but that is what family loyalty does | | | |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 22:07 - Apr 28 with 2271 views | feelingblue |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:05 - Apr 28 by chicoazul |
The whole country is screwed beyond belief. I'd emigrate if I was younger. |
Yes, we're right in the sh1t, and most people don't see it.
I did emigrate 30+ years ago, but I came back for family (parents) reasons.
Mrs FB retires this June, and given that we only have 20 years left, if we are lucky, maybe we should get out and watch from a distance? |  | | |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 22:55 - Apr 28 with 2250 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Who "Arf'd" first on this forum, you or Glassers ?...it's the only thing that unites you ! |  |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 23:05 - Apr 28 with 2239 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 11:56 - Apr 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Turkeys voting for Christmas though isn't it. Trump, the UKIP/the Brexit camp, and now with Macron being the frontrunner in France. Hardly anti-establishment and all personify the system we're describing. (Trump financially, if not politically).
You sum up the situation more eloquently than I did, but I can't see it changing any time soon. I don't know what the answer is. |
Imho...an acceptance that perpetual debt based growth is a lie/myth and the development of new steady state economics...would have been better to start this a few decades ago before squandering billions of years of carbon energy on needless tat but heh ho ! This would require an honest dialogue between politicians and electorate and the abandonment of 5 year short term electoral cycles so probably no chance and it will end in chaos/war resource grabs as we are already witnessing and as per usual ! | |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 23:14 - Apr 28 with 2225 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 12:22 - Apr 28 by Darth_Koont |
The answer is to find strength in numbers with our Europe neighbours and champion more advanced thinking on the needs of modern, sustainable societies. Societies where a balance between liberty and equality, freedom and justice can be found ...
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Unfortunately all the institutions are built on the myths of the present system and populated by the very people with most to lose from delivering meaningful change. | |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 23:28 - Apr 28 with 2209 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Glasgow Blue should read this and weep, as I am at the prospect of being about £2,500 worse off when universal credit is rolled out here !
Like most Tories I don't imagine he has a clue on the realities of the nonsense he spouts......I can see though how you would have to believe the lies in order to live with yourself. | |
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| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 00:42 - Apr 29 with 2184 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 10:34 - Apr 28 by Darth_Koont |
Reality's a bitch, isn't it?
To be fair to May, we've had people on here who haven't understood the weakness in the UK's position from Day One. And still show little sign of wising up. So evidently May's empty rhetoric works/has an eager audience. |
The 27 have been consistent for about 10 months. UK still has no credible plan, no credible politicians to even start negotiating.
It is scary. | | | |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 06:41 - Apr 29 with 2143 views | No9 |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 23:13 - Apr 27 by GlasgowBlue |
I don't get this "difficult for the common man stuff Lucan. Under successive Tory governments, the "common man" has claimed the ladder. Whether it was the increase in home ownership under Thatcher. Or the opportunity for the "common man" to buy shares, something that was previously the preserve of the wealthy.
Even under this government we have seen millions of "common men" taken out of paying income tax. When Gordon Brown left office in 2010 the tax free allowance was £6,500. This year you can earn up to £11,500 before paying a oenny income tax.
The last Labour government saw an increase in unemployment. Under this government unemployment has falling to io it's lowest level since records began.
One final note. How is it dictatorial to call an election when you could stay as Prime Minister for another three years Guaranteed?
I think we are forgetting what real dictators act like. |
How much do the tories pay you to broadcast this garbage?
Thatcher saw the development of the underclass and almost the commencement of civil war.
The 'common man' was encouraged to buy shares so they would end up where the tories wnted them to - & it happened & resulted in cr@p companies
£11,500 tax threashold was a Lib-Dem idea and it isn't high enough to cover the cost of living
The unemployment numbers are not true - if you measured those 'not active' but unabe to claim jonbseekers allowance you would see an entirely different picture
The Dictators party was defeated in a referendum, staying in the EU is still in the tory manifesto, the Dictator never stood for election
Now the Dictator want to raid our pensioners, kill off the NHS kill of all other public services and return us to previous centuries. I'm sure you will have read that workhouse conditions have returned to England? | | | |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 08:34 - Apr 29 with 2124 views | Darth_Koont |
| Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain on 00:42 - Apr 29 by Freddies_Ears |
The 27 have been consistent for about 10 months. UK still has no credible plan, no credible politicians to even start negotiating.
It is scary. |
That's the Catch 22 here. To lead the UK in the negotiations, you need to be sharp, enthusiastic for the future, see the bigger picture, and able to deal successfully with Europeans. All qualities that would keep you out of the room and probably on the wrong side of the discussions. | |
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