| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill 14:41 - Apr 28 with 3845 views | giant_stow |
It seems to be getting bigger - an extra 2.5b to cover the turkey immigration deal now.
What I've never seen is a breakdown of the rights and wrongs of this - anyone got any clue?
Despite being a remainer, my immediate extinct is that we're being blackmailed: pay up (just to enable further chat) or fck off to the wilderness. We'll thanks a bundle fritze and fck you too. |  |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 14:49 - Apr 28 with 2759 views | No9 |
The settelment the UK is expected to make is to cover what was signed up to.
These spending obligations were made a few years ago & cover all sorts of things.
I recommend that you look up some EU sites to see what the UK (Cameron) signed up to.
Look at it like this - whenever you leave, be it a club, your hotel, a rented apaprtment, you have to settle your bills before you leave.
Would any reasonable person expect less?
Don't overlook the fact that currently the tory manifesto still says the UK will stay in the EU ans honour all these obligations.
This truly is a total mess that they have not yet come to terms with.
Meanwhile, te EU already has things well under way to the UK leaving. |  | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:02 - Apr 28 with 2727 views | giant_stow |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 14:49 - Apr 28 by No9 |
The settelment the UK is expected to make is to cover what was signed up to.
These spending obligations were made a few years ago & cover all sorts of things.
I recommend that you look up some EU sites to see what the UK (Cameron) signed up to.
Look at it like this - whenever you leave, be it a club, your hotel, a rented apaprtment, you have to settle your bills before you leave.
Would any reasonable person expect less?
Don't overlook the fact that currently the tory manifesto still says the UK will stay in the EU ans honour all these obligations.
This truly is a total mess that they have not yet come to terms with.
Meanwhile, te EU already has things well under way to the UK leaving. |
Maybe you're right. The bit that gets me though, to use your analogy, is that we'll be paying for that hotel room years after we left it. And presumably, any fee for single market access would be on top of this leaving fee? | |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:04 - Apr 28 with 2718 views | StokieBlue |
It's not 2.5bn. That's the total bill for all EU countries, the UK share will be a relatively small amount.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:16 - Apr 28 with 2681 views | giant_stow |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:04 - Apr 28 by StokieBlue |
It's not 2.5bn. That's the total bill for all EU countries, the UK share will be a relatively small amount.
SB |
Fair dos, but that still leaves them starting at 60b | |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:21 - Apr 28 with 2666 views | MJallday |
id just refuse to pay it. what are they gonna do? invade? |  |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:29 - Apr 28 with 2648 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:16 - Apr 28 by giant_stow |
Fair dos, but that still leaves them starting at 60b |
We can save £60 billion in one year by stopping benefit to all non UK nationals and by charging them access to things like schools and hospitals. Easy |  | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:30 - Apr 28 with 2639 views | No9 |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:02 - Apr 28 by giant_stow |
Maybe you're right. The bit that gets me though, to use your analogy, is that we'll be paying for that hotel room years after we left it. And presumably, any fee for single market access would be on top of this leaving fee? |
As I say the costs are sfor things that Cameron agreed to fund before his tory infighting cost him his job.
For some things we may well be paying for a while although I believe the Germans, at least want a clean break so the door can be shut behind the Uk as it leaves. If you get a new car on a lease deal & you don't like it you still have to pay for it.
Then there are questions about what monies should come back to the Uk & when?
I believe Cameron (& some in his party) want / wanted Turkey in the EU and to some extent, when you look at the strategic importance of Turkey, that can make sense.
The EU want to settle all matters relative to the 'divorce bill payment, the citizens right which the EU has said they want us in the Uk to retain all rights, Scotland, Ireland, Gibraltar will all come into play at some time before the 'divorce ceremony. Cessation of VAT arrangements, customs & excise, passporting etc. etc.
All this then they will say OK now which bits of the club do you want to buy into = the golf club, the gardens, the club restaurant, the swimming pool - figuratively speaking.
Mrs May is not the pserson to do any of this | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:31 - Apr 28 with 2631 views | No9 |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:21 - Apr 28 by MJallday |
id just refuse to pay it. what are they gonna do? invade? |
No they will take the Uk to the International courts | | | |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:32 - Apr 28 with 2628 views | artsbossbeard |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:29 - Apr 28 by FrowsyArmLarry |
We can save £60 billion in one year by stopping benefit to all non UK nationals and by charging them access to things like schools and hospitals. Easy |
Maybe put a little armband on them, so they are easier to spot. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:32 - Apr 28 with 2625 views | No9 |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:29 - Apr 28 by FrowsyArmLarry |
We can save £60 billion in one year by stopping benefit to all non UK nationals and by charging them access to things like schools and hospitals. Easy |
If Mrs May as HS had properly implementedthe E111 card system pproperly that question would never have arisen | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:35 - Apr 28 with 2613 views | StokieBlue |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:31 - Apr 28 by No9 |
No they will take the Uk to the International courts |
What about the UK's share of the assets which I believe the EU has calculated as being more than 60bn.
To continue the divorce analogy, it's not just about liabilities, the are assets to divide as well.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:39 - Apr 28 with 2600 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:35 - Apr 28 by StokieBlue |
What about the UK's share of the assets which I believe the EU has calculated as being more than 60bn.
To continue the divorce analogy, it's not just about liabilities, the are assets to divide as well.
SB |
If you went fully down the divorce analogy it's heavily weighted on ability to pay so maybe the EU should be paying us maintenance until the kids are 18 | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:14 - Apr 28 with 2540 views | MJallday |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:31 - Apr 28 by No9 |
No they will take the Uk to the International courts |
simple - we just wont turn up. next | |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:24 - Apr 28 with 2527 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:29 - Apr 28 by FrowsyArmLarry |
We can save £60 billion in one year by stopping benefit to all non UK nationals and by charging them access to things like schools and hospitals. Easy |
No we can't.
Most non-EU immigrants can't access benefits, and where they can minimum residency period conditions are in place. The numbers of EU+non-EU claimants are small compared to UK claimants, so it would make little difference in any case (volume for foreign claimants is around 7%). Figures are hard to come by, but even the propaganda pumped out by the likes of the Mail put the figures at under £900m/yr.
Sounds a lot, but recent immigrants pay more tax than they take out - EU immigrants a lot more, so if we discourage them the public purse will be worse off.
We could charge them to access schools I suppose. There are about 190,000-200,000 kids born to non-UK mothers each year, and another 10,000 move here. But more than 7% of couples are a mix of one foreign-born person and one UK born person. You probably wouldn't be able to charge their kids.
So if we round that to 200,000 kid per year. Now the average cost per pupil is around 4,550/pupil. 200,000x£4,550=£910m.
We are able to charge non-nats for hospital treatment now, but don't seem able to claim half of it back. It's a tiny amount too (we're missing out on about £250m/yr).
So that's:
- Benefit savings - £900m
- School charges - £910m
- Unclaimed hospital charges £250m
= £1.935bn
You're £58bn short.
Clamping down on tax evasion, avoidance and non-collection would generate between £34bn and 120bn per year depending on who you listen too. That sounds a much more sensible option to me. [Post edited 28 Apr 2017 17:26]
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:32 - Apr 28 with 2509 views | J2BLUE |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:29 - Apr 28 by FrowsyArmLarry |
We can save £60 billion in one year by stopping benefit to all non UK nationals and by charging them access to things like schools and hospitals. Easy |
What happens when a foreign child is taken to a hospital seriously injured or ill and their family can't afford to pay? |  |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:38 - Apr 28 with 2495 views | flashblue |
Essentially they are talking about commitments up until 2020. Well we're leaving in 2019 in any case so just make any implementation period last a further 12 months. This would be effective membership for another year with the benefits of the single market until then. |  |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 18:07 - Apr 28 with 2460 views | blueislander |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:14 - Apr 28 by MJallday |
simple - we just wont turn up. next |
The EU has made it clear that they will not begin to negotiate Brexit until the bill has been settled. Their figure is around 60 billion. The UK government reckon it should be about 3 billion. So there is plenty of room for negotiation. | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 18:14 - Apr 28 with 2438 views | giant_stow |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:38 - Apr 28 by flashblue |
Essentially they are talking about commitments up until 2020. Well we're leaving in 2019 in any case so just make any implementation period last a further 12 months. This would be effective membership for another year with the benefits of the single market until then. |
That's more sensible than my op deserves. So as long as we're paying for nothing after 2020, it's all a moot point in any case... A red herring. However you spell moot. | |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 08:06 - Apr 29 with 2290 views | No9 |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 15:35 - Apr 28 by StokieBlue |
What about the UK's share of the assets which I believe the EU has calculated as being more than 60bn.
To continue the divorce analogy, it's not just about liabilities, the are assets to divide as well.
SB |
I would not argue with your point as I have not yet seen any comparison between liabilities and assets but would welcome a comparison chart. | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 10:08 - Apr 29 with 2234 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:24 - Apr 28 by Swansea_Blue |
No we can't.
Most non-EU immigrants can't access benefits, and where they can minimum residency period conditions are in place. The numbers of EU+non-EU claimants are small compared to UK claimants, so it would make little difference in any case (volume for foreign claimants is around 7%). Figures are hard to come by, but even the propaganda pumped out by the likes of the Mail put the figures at under £900m/yr.
Sounds a lot, but recent immigrants pay more tax than they take out - EU immigrants a lot more, so if we discourage them the public purse will be worse off.
We could charge them to access schools I suppose. There are about 190,000-200,000 kids born to non-UK mothers each year, and another 10,000 move here. But more than 7% of couples are a mix of one foreign-born person and one UK born person. You probably wouldn't be able to charge their kids.
So if we round that to 200,000 kid per year. Now the average cost per pupil is around 4,550/pupil. 200,000x£4,550=£910m.
We are able to charge non-nats for hospital treatment now, but don't seem able to claim half of it back. It's a tiny amount too (we're missing out on about £250m/yr).
So that's:
- Benefit savings - £900m
- School charges - £910m
- Unclaimed hospital charges £250m
= £1.935bn
You're £58bn short.
Clamping down on tax evasion, avoidance and non-collection would generate between £34bn and 120bn per year depending on who you listen too. That sounds a much more sensible option to me. [Post edited 28 Apr 2017 17:26]
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Do those figures include working tax credits and housing benefits? | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 10:11 - Apr 29 with 2226 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 17:32 - Apr 28 by J2BLUE |
What happens when a foreign child is taken to a hospital seriously injured or ill and their family can't afford to pay? |
Err... they will already have paid from their compulsory health insurance. If you don't take it out you get put on a government scheme which costs twice as much. That's how it works in other countries and nobody takes the pi$$ | | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 10:51 - Apr 29 with 2193 views | J2BLUE |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 10:11 - Apr 29 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Err... they will already have paid from their compulsory health insurance. If you don't take it out you get put on a government scheme which costs twice as much. That's how it works in other countries and nobody takes the pi$$ |
Ahh back on the health insurance thing.
I spent 7 hours at Ipswich hospital over Thursday night/Friday morning with my dad who was having chest pains after a recent heart attack (he's fine). The NHS is amazing. The staff are amazing. I would rather a large tax increase than have people like you gleefully see us changed to an insurance based system. I bet half of the people up there wouldn't have been there under an insurance based system.
If you gave the people a direct choice between trident + health insurance or no trident and the NHS being fully funded they wouldn't hesitate to turn their backs on trident. Keep your health insurance fantasy, it's not happening.
[Post edited 29 Apr 2017 11:42]
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 11:50 - Apr 29 with 2141 views | meekreech |
They are now saying before a trade deal can be agreed Ireland must be MADE ONE COUNTRY ! What do they think will be gained by such stupid ideas ? Ulster is part of the U.K. and will remain so , it is not up for discussion ! | |
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| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 11:57 - Apr 29 with 2127 views | feelingblue |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 11:50 - Apr 29 by meekreech |
They are now saying before a trade deal can be agreed Ireland must be MADE ONE COUNTRY ! What do they think will be gained by such stupid ideas ? Ulster is part of the U.K. and will remain so , it is not up for discussion ! |
No, they are not |  | | |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 11:58 - Apr 29 with 2123 views | vapour_trail |
| The Europeans and their brexit leaving bill on 11:50 - Apr 29 by meekreech |
They are now saying before a trade deal can be agreed Ireland must be MADE ONE COUNTRY ! What do they think will be gained by such stupid ideas ? Ulster is part of the U.K. and will remain so , it is not up for discussion ! |
They're really not. They're looking for a deal to avoid a hard border.
Don't know where you've got that from? |  |
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