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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. 12:39 - May 9 with 4383 viewsWeWereZombies

Be very careful if you turn to pills, even when prescribed by a doctor but especially if sourced otherwise:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-39855184

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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:10 - May 9 with 3112 viewsblue_oyster

Indeed. I can't see how doctors can perscribe drugs for something that they can't even quantify.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:33 - May 9 with 3078 viewsgerard1947

Without doubt medication plays an important role in the treatment of depression, anxiety and panic attacks. It works for some, makes no improvement or even causes major problems in others.

Unfortunately for GPs prescribing medication as a first resort has become necessary. Over the last few years specialist mental health therapy has become very hard to access. It can take months to get a consultation and then there's often a wait for basic CBT after that.

It really is a disgrace.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:41 - May 9 with 3054 viewsblue_oyster

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:33 - May 9 by gerard1947

Without doubt medication plays an important role in the treatment of depression, anxiety and panic attacks. It works for some, makes no improvement or even causes major problems in others.

Unfortunately for GPs prescribing medication as a first resort has become necessary. Over the last few years specialist mental health therapy has become very hard to access. It can take months to get a consultation and then there's often a wait for basic CBT after that.

It really is a disgrace.


There is plenty of doubt, as doctors don't even know what they are prescribing for.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:03 - May 9 with 3011 viewsWeWereZombies

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:41 - May 9 by blue_oyster

There is plenty of doubt, as doctors don't even know what they are prescribing for.


That is not true, there are disorders of the mind that exhibit quite clear behavioural symptoms. Much psychiatry could be regarded as still in the developmental stage but the same could be said of physiological medicine a couple of hundred years ago, and the immaterial is much more difficult to pin down.

But, from personal experience and observations of family and, especially in one tragic case, their friends I would always favour talking cures over medication.

At least your post prompted me to find this out when I went off to Wikipedia to seek a date for the beginning of psychiatry:

'The beginning of psychiatry as a medical specialty is dated to the middle of the nineteenth century, although its germination can be traced to the late eighteenth century. In the late 17th century, privately run asylums for the insane began to proliferate and expand in size. In 1713 the Bethel Hospital Norwich was opened, the first purpose-built asylum in England'
[Post edited 9 May 2017 14:08]

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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:17 - May 9 with 2976 viewsgerard1947

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:41 - May 9 by blue_oyster

There is plenty of doubt, as doctors don't even know what they are prescribing for.


If you mean GPs then I agree to an extent. My point is GPs are generalists, people suffering with mental health problems need access to specialists. When diagnosis is established sometimes medication is the best option. Sometimes there is a chemical imbalance in the brain and medicine helps. This is an example. It's a bit like diabetes that's an imbalance too.

When a GP is faced by a desperate patient what does he do, refer the patient knowing he or she will not see a specialist for 4 months or prescribe a tablet that may help in the meantime.
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(No subject) (n/t) on 14:26 - May 9 with 2957 viewsBenters


Gentlybentley
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:51 - May 9 with 2911 viewsblue_oyster

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:03 - May 9 by WeWereZombies

That is not true, there are disorders of the mind that exhibit quite clear behavioural symptoms. Much psychiatry could be regarded as still in the developmental stage but the same could be said of physiological medicine a couple of hundred years ago, and the immaterial is much more difficult to pin down.

But, from personal experience and observations of family and, especially in one tragic case, their friends I would always favour talking cures over medication.

At least your post prompted me to find this out when I went off to Wikipedia to seek a date for the beginning of psychiatry:

'The beginning of psychiatry as a medical specialty is dated to the middle of the nineteenth century, although its germination can be traced to the late eighteenth century. In the late 17th century, privately run asylums for the insane began to proliferate and expand in size. In 1713 the Bethel Hospital Norwich was opened, the first purpose-built asylum in England'
[Post edited 9 May 2017 14:08]


It's very questionable at the least, and your experiences may be true. But that means that there has to be doubt.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:53 - May 9 with 2902 viewsblue_oyster

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:17 - May 9 by gerard1947

If you mean GPs then I agree to an extent. My point is GPs are generalists, people suffering with mental health problems need access to specialists. When diagnosis is established sometimes medication is the best option. Sometimes there is a chemical imbalance in the brain and medicine helps. This is an example. It's a bit like diabetes that's an imbalance too.

When a GP is faced by a desperate patient what does he do, refer the patient knowing he or she will not see a specialist for 4 months or prescribe a tablet that may help in the meantime.


No, all doctors. In the case of 'depression' for example, there is no agreed consensus as to what it objectively is. So how can you perscribe drugs for it? You have no way of knowing it will work. Only hope.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:54 - May 9 with 2902 viewsSwailsey

I won't add much to this as it's a topic which is very close to me as you know.

I have had very good experience with medication, but that was after 10+ years of therapy and after having hours of consultation about what would be the right type.

I had a very bad reaction to one (putting on 2 stone in just over a month), but generally speaking, the correct ones are very beneficial.

GPs prescribe medication too readily and that is very, very dangerous, but it is also dangerous to warn people off them.

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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:55 - May 9 with 2889 viewsSwailsey

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:53 - May 9 by blue_oyster

No, all doctors. In the case of 'depression' for example, there is no agreed consensus as to what it objectively is. So how can you perscribe drugs for it? You have no way of knowing it will work. Only hope.


Not true.

'Depression' is a very broad way of describing mental illness. Unfortunately GPs fall down because they prescribe medication for it, after diagnosing people with having it on one visit.

There isn't a consensus to what causes depression, but there is for OCD, BPD, anorexia etc etc - to warn all people off medication for those illnesses isn't correct.
That is dangerous.

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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:34 - May 9 with 2834 viewsblue_oyster

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:55 - May 9 by Swailsey

Not true.

'Depression' is a very broad way of describing mental illness. Unfortunately GPs fall down because they prescribe medication for it, after diagnosing people with having it on one visit.

There isn't a consensus to what causes depression, but there is for OCD, BPD, anorexia etc etc - to warn all people off medication for those illnesses isn't correct.
That is dangerous.


Maybe you could provide this objective description and settle the matter?

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:37 - May 9 with 2829 viewsBlueBadger

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:53 - May 9 by blue_oyster

No, all doctors. In the case of 'depression' for example, there is no agreed consensus as to what it objectively is. So how can you perscribe drugs for it? You have no way of knowing it will work. Only hope.


*citation needed*

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:37 - May 9 with 2821 viewsSwailsey

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:34 - May 9 by blue_oyster

Maybe you could provide this objective description and settle the matter?


Duplicate post - see below.
[Post edited 9 May 2017 15:45]

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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:38 - May 9 with 2823 viewsblue_oyster

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:37 - May 9 by BlueBadger

*citation needed*


Citation for something that doesn't exist? An interesting concept.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:45 - May 9 with 2798 viewsSwailsey

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:38 - May 9 by blue_oyster

Citation for something that doesn't exist? An interesting concept.


I'm sorry?

Most "anti-depression" medications are mood stabilizers, which (when used in conjunction with effective therapy) allow the patient to be more receptive, calm and in a mindset where they can absorb information.

No medication claims to "cure" depression or mental illness and I don't think anyone actually thinks that it does?

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2
We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:45 - May 9 with 2793 viewsWeWereZombies

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:38 - May 9 by blue_oyster

Citation for something that doesn't exist? An interesting concept.


But how do we know you exist? You could just be a figment of our mad fevered imagination, that is if we exist. We could pursue this all the way back to the cogito and still get nowhere if we take your approach. Better to contrast, compare, formulate a theory, test the theory and go on from there.

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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:55 - May 9 with 2773 viewsWeWereZombies

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 14:54 - May 9 by Swailsey

I won't add much to this as it's a topic which is very close to me as you know.

I have had very good experience with medication, but that was after 10+ years of therapy and after having hours of consultation about what would be the right type.

I had a very bad reaction to one (putting on 2 stone in just over a month), but generally speaking, the correct ones are very beneficial.

GPs prescribe medication too readily and that is very, very dangerous, but it is also dangerous to warn people off them.


Sorry, chrisswailes, was not fully aware of the extent of treatment you received and appreciate your caveats in this instance. But I have to hold to my original intent and plea not to go onto medication if it can be helped, the brain and body can have remarkable powers of recovery if left unmolested (and I would include drink and recreational drugs as 'self-medication' to be avoided if a condition is diagnosed). Not going into the circumstances of the individual I mentioned other than to say that if the pills had not been there she would not have been able to store them up and take her own life with them.

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2
We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:59 - May 9 with 2756 viewstcblue

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:45 - May 9 by WeWereZombies

But how do we know you exist? You could just be a figment of our mad fevered imagination, that is if we exist. We could pursue this all the way back to the cogito and still get nowhere if we take your approach. Better to contrast, compare, formulate a theory, test the theory and go on from there.


I've only read half this thread and I hope that he doesn't exist
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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 16:07 - May 9 with 2732 viewsSwailsey

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:55 - May 9 by WeWereZombies

Sorry, chrisswailes, was not fully aware of the extent of treatment you received and appreciate your caveats in this instance. But I have to hold to my original intent and plea not to go onto medication if it can be helped, the brain and body can have remarkable powers of recovery if left unmolested (and I would include drink and recreational drugs as 'self-medication' to be avoided if a condition is diagnosed). Not going into the circumstances of the individual I mentioned other than to say that if the pills had not been there she would not have been able to store them up and take her own life with them.


Have pm'd you :)

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on 16:12 - May 9 with 2725 views_

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 13:33 - May 9 by gerard1947

Without doubt medication plays an important role in the treatment of depression, anxiety and panic attacks. It works for some, makes no improvement or even causes major problems in others.

Unfortunately for GPs prescribing medication as a first resort has become necessary. Over the last few years specialist mental health therapy has become very hard to access. It can take months to get a consultation and then there's often a wait for basic CBT after that.

It really is a disgrace.


0
We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 16:16 - May 9 with 2710 viewsTJS

Sorry I'm going to go against the grain here and say I found CBT utterly useless for OCD / anxiety but Fluoxetine has helped me quite a lot over the years.
[Post edited 9 May 2017 16:16]
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on 16:17 - May 9 with 2697 views_

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 15:55 - May 9 by WeWereZombies

Sorry, chrisswailes, was not fully aware of the extent of treatment you received and appreciate your caveats in this instance. But I have to hold to my original intent and plea not to go onto medication if it can be helped, the brain and body can have remarkable powers of recovery if left unmolested (and I would include drink and recreational drugs as 'self-medication' to be avoided if a condition is diagnosed). Not going into the circumstances of the individual I mentioned other than to say that if the pills had not been there she would not have been able to store them up and take her own life with them.


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on 16:19 - May 9 with 2680 views_

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 16:16 - May 9 by TJS

Sorry I'm going to go against the grain here and say I found CBT utterly useless for OCD / anxiety but Fluoxetine has helped me quite a lot over the years.
[Post edited 9 May 2017 16:16]


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We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 16:26 - May 9 with 2646 viewsTJS

on 16:19 - May 9 by _



Totally agree.
Unfortunately I think prescription medication for mental illness gets a lot of undeserved bad press which only perpetuates the stigma related to it.
On the other hand CBT always seems to be regarded as the better option - anything so you are not 'on tablets'.
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on 16:30 - May 9 with 2638 views_

We have had a few threads about depression, anxiety and panic attacks, careful.. on 16:26 - May 9 by TJS

Totally agree.
Unfortunately I think prescription medication for mental illness gets a lot of undeserved bad press which only perpetuates the stigma related to it.
On the other hand CBT always seems to be regarded as the better option - anything so you are not 'on tablets'.


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