| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? 11:12 - May 23 with 6225 views | BergholtBru |
Well, it`s amazing what people will do when they believe God is on their side! |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:56 - May 23 with 2748 views | bournemouthblue |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:50 - May 23 by lowhouseblue |
someone posted a very good article a couple of months ago about the characteristics of those in the west who have been radicalised and committed terrorists attacks. it was based on data from belgium and france I think. it was very good and reinforces what you say - but I can't find it now. |
they often come from criminal backgrounds also, I suppose if they are willing to bend the rules in that manner, this is the next step |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:57 - May 23 with 2739 views | lowhouseblue |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:56 - May 23 by bournemouthblue |
they often come from criminal backgrounds also, I suppose if they are willing to bend the rules in that manner, this is the next step |
yes, that's what the article showed - often with a history of very western vices. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 13:04 - May 23 with 2723 views | Plums |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:50 - May 23 by lowhouseblue |
someone posted a very good article a couple of months ago about the characteristics of those in the west who have been radicalised and committed terrorists attacks. it was based on data from belgium and france I think. it was very good and reinforces what you say - but I can't find it now. |
This is it. In summary, they have more in common with US high school shooters than mosque visiting muslims:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/apr/13/who-are-the-new-jihadis
The sooner we admit to ourselves that these people are a product of our society rather than something being done to it, the closer we will be to resolving the situation. |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 13:05 - May 23 with 2715 views | Guthrum |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:56 - May 23 by bournemouthblue |
they often come from criminal backgrounds also, I suppose if they are willing to bend the rules in that manner, this is the next step |
That's more true for French/Belgian jihadis than British ones.
France has a very deep problem with lack of integration in communities who immigrated from its former North African empire (particularly Algeria). Thus there has been a lot of ghettoisation, with economic/social marginalisation and a drift into criminality in communities where youth unemployment is rife.
The UK doesn't have that issue to anywhere near the same extent, so the radicalised tend to be working alone or in very small groups, both recruited and connecting over the internet. |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 13:06 - May 23 with 2709 views | lowhouseblue |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 13:04 - May 23 by Plums |
This is it. In summary, they have more in common with US high school shooters than mosque visiting muslims:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/apr/13/who-are-the-new-jihadis
The sooner we admit to ourselves that these people are a product of our society rather than something being done to it, the closer we will be to resolving the situation. |
that's it. thanks. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 13:24 - May 23 with 2665 views | Gromheort |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 13:05 - May 23 by Guthrum |
That's more true for French/Belgian jihadis than British ones.
France has a very deep problem with lack of integration in communities who immigrated from its former North African empire (particularly Algeria). Thus there has been a lot of ghettoisation, with economic/social marginalisation and a drift into criminality in communities where youth unemployment is rife.
The UK doesn't have that issue to anywhere near the same extent, so the radicalised tend to be working alone or in very small groups, both recruited and connecting over the internet. |
The evidence though does suggest a common link: while we shouldn't oversimplify, perceptions of discrimination or marginalisation have played an integral role. That's the 'vicious cycle' rationality behind the tactic: heinous crimes create more hatred and, through perceived greater marginalisation, provokes a greater pool of the radicalised. |  | | |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 14:17 - May 23 with 2613 views | sparks |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:51 - May 23 by giant_stow |
It depends on what you define as a religion. Personally, I wouldn't call ISIS truly religious - they've twisted Islam out of all recognition. Although I accept they would disagree. [Post edited 23 May 2017 23:04]
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That's a form of the one true Scotsman fallacy.
They take the words more literally than the mainstream. However the mainstream gives them cover and comfort by creating a baseline of unfounded beliefs and often demanding entitlement to have them respected above others rights and interests. See Christians and gay people. Or the blasphemy and apostasy laws prevalent and supported in the Islamic world. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 14:30 - May 23 with 2593 views | giant_stow |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 14:17 - May 23 by sparks |
That's a form of the one true Scotsman fallacy.
They take the words more literally than the mainstream. However the mainstream gives them cover and comfort by creating a baseline of unfounded beliefs and often demanding entitlement to have them respected above others rights and interests. See Christians and gay people. Or the blasphemy and apostasy laws prevalent and supported in the Islamic world. |
The vast majority of muslims would be aghast and 100% opposed about what happenned last night, so it seems unfair and illogical to somehow implicate them in these events.
I don't know enough about blasphemy / apostate laws to counter that, but do know that pointing to "Christians and gay people" is a massive generalisation - there are many strands to Christians' thinking on homosexuality. |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 14:44 - May 23 with 2573 views | MedwayTractor |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:54 - May 23 by MJallday |
IS now claiming responsibility
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There is nothing responsible about what happened in Manchester. Quite the opposite, in fact. |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 14:49 - May 23 with 2559 views | Darth_Koont |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:50 - May 23 by lowhouseblue |
someone posted a very good article a couple of months ago about the characteristics of those in the west who have been radicalised and committed terrorists attacks. it was based on data from belgium and france I think. it was very good and reinforces what you say - but I can't find it now. |
Yes - think we're talking about the same article but that research stuck with me too.
I'll see if I can find it again.
Edit: See delaisplums has already found it. Good work! [Post edited 23 May 2017 14:53]
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 15:01 - May 23 with 2531 views | sparks |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 14:30 - May 23 by giant_stow |
The vast majority of muslims would be aghast and 100% opposed about what happenned last night, so it seems unfair and illogical to somehow implicate them in these events.
I don't know enough about blasphemy / apostate laws to counter that, but do know that pointing to "Christians and gay people" is a massive generalisation - there are many strands to Christians' thinking on homosexuality. |
The point is about baselines in the mainstream religions. The leap from hate the sin love the sinner to 'we should do something about this sin' is not that huge.
Similarly the leap between the church and state supporting corporal punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, to 'we should proactively do something about these blasphemers' is not that huge.
We can't tar all with the same brush but neither should we dismiss the role religions, often unwittingly, play. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 15:24 - May 23 with 2500 views | Freddy |
Scumbags targeting kids |  | | |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 15:45 - May 23 with 2469 views | Superfrans |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 12:54 - May 23 by MJallday |
IS now claiming responsibility
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They would do that whether they were involved or not.
Their modus operandi is to create fear and part of that is giving the impression that they can reach everyone, everywhere. The murderer killed himself in the attack. We may never know for certain whether he acted alone or not. |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 15:53 - May 23 with 2453 views | blue_oyster |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 15:45 - May 23 by Superfrans |
They would do that whether they were involved or not.
Their modus operandi is to create fear and part of that is giving the impression that they can reach everyone, everywhere. The murderer killed himself in the attack. We may never know for certain whether he acted alone or not. |
One thing that we do know is that our 'intelligence' services are unable to protect the public. They will ensure that you are treated like a terrorist every time you go to the airport though. |  |
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| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 21:47 - May 24 with 2338 views | Gromheort |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 15:45 - May 23 by Superfrans |
They would do that whether they were involved or not.
Their modus operandi is to create fear and part of that is giving the impression that they can reach everyone, everywhere. The murderer killed himself in the attack. We may never know for certain whether he acted alone or not. |
Fear is typically a prime weapon for terrorists. However, its different with this lot. Ratcheting up the disgust factor is the key ingredient. It quite rightly provokes anger. But when that anger leaks into further perceptions of attacks against the islam faith, it increases the risk of further radicalisation. The solution is solidarity. | | | |
| Manchester bombing - why do people do these things?? on 22:25 - May 24 with 2318 views | blueconscience |
Bet the coward was gutted when there was no "Paradise" that they fantasise dieing for. |  |
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