| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... 21:49 - May 23 with 7534 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...with the announcement of army on the streets ? |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:43 - May 23 with 2477 views | homer_123 |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:36 - May 23 by ElderGrizzly |
Obviously the attack in France just before the election there wasn't on this scale, but they continued with an enhanced police presence.
I'd expect that will be the outcome, unless we see any other attacks between now and then |
I'd say that's about right in terms of what is likely to happen. |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:45 - May 23 with 2475 views | homer_123 |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:33 - May 23 by HARRY10 |
Depends on what you term 'free and fair'. The referendum certainly wasn't fair in the sense that there was an awful lots of lies peddled that since are trying to be dropped.
Perhaps when political statements have to abide by the same level of 'honesty ' that the media does things might improve. By honesty I mean accountability. That doesn't hold sway at the moment.
Some may know of The Zinoviev letter. The forged letter was printed in the Daily Mail which carried headlines
"On October 25, 1924, four days before the election, the Mail splashed headlines across its front page claiming: Civil War Plot by Socialists' Masters: Moscow Orders To Our Reds; Great Plot Disclosed. Labour lost by a landslide."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/1999/feb/04/uk.politicalnews6
Unfortunately we live in a very maudlin' and self obsessed society where so many feel that an outpouring of grief is required for any death. If these deaths and injuries had been through a rail accident would there be talk of stopping the election ? So is it the method of the death toll that decides ?
Perhaps the phrase 'Keep calm and carry on' is well suited here. |
I've posted before about the subject of your second yo last paragraph. It's a very interesting discussion point to be honest. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:48 - May 23 with 2466 views | Guthrum |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:34 - May 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
However if the media were to pick up where they left off....calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser....their claims, right or wrong, would certainly have an even greater impact.
Unfortunately the 'strong and stable' narrative alongside the above is greatly affected by events and is why I highlighted "free and fair". |
That was only ever in connection with the Northern Irish situation. And some years ago. Don't recall anyone having suggested he was in favour of Islamic State.
I doubt those accusations will have any more effect than they already had before yesterday.
Converseley, the fact an attack got through could be seen to reflect badly on governments who cut funding to the police and other services. |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:48 - May 23 with 2469 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:34 - May 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
However if the media were to pick up where they left off....calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser....their claims, right or wrong, would certainly have an even greater impact.
Unfortunately the 'strong and stable' narrative alongside the above is greatly affected by events and is why I highlighted "free and fair". |
It won't come as a surprise to you that I have an opinion on Corbyn's words and deeds in the aftermath of previous bombings that have taken innocent lives but today isn't the day to air them.
I think there needs to be a level playing field so perhaps all of the party leaders could appear together in a sign of unity. |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:50 - May 23 with 2467 views | Clapham_Junction |
TBH I don't think we have had a "free and fair election" for several years.
They have all been free (and I don't see the army presence changing that), but they have definitely not been fair.
With the current system of political donations (legalised bribery as far as I'm concerned) and with most newspapers owned by very wealthy individuals telling their readers who to vote for, I'm not sure its possible.
I thought it would have been nice for the Downing Street announcement to have been made with all party leaders lined up together - a show of unity as well as avoiding any party political considerations. |  | | |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:57 - May 23 with 2441 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:48 - May 23 by GlasgowBlue |
It won't come as a surprise to you that I have an opinion on Corbyn's words and deeds in the aftermath of previous bombings that have taken innocent lives but today isn't the day to air them.
I think there needs to be a level playing field so perhaps all of the party leaders could appear together in a sign of unity. |
I had noticed !
And I agree to second part !
......perhaps, heavens forbid, should anything like this happen again during pre election they should consider having a civil servant announce changes to security levels. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:59 - May 23 with 2423 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:28 - May 23 by ElderGrizzly |
Not saying it was, but I thought it was a point worth making. Others aren't so intelligent as him :) |
Ah ambassador with your flattery you are spoiling me !
Hope you read my clarification regarding 'timing'. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:01 - May 23 with 2418 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:50 - May 23 by Clapham_Junction |
TBH I don't think we have had a "free and fair election" for several years.
They have all been free (and I don't see the army presence changing that), but they have definitely not been fair.
With the current system of political donations (legalised bribery as far as I'm concerned) and with most newspapers owned by very wealthy individuals telling their readers who to vote for, I'm not sure its possible.
I thought it would have been nice for the Downing Street announcement to have been made with all party leaders lined up together - a show of unity as well as avoiding any party political considerations. |
Or as I have suggested an unknown suit. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:04 - May 23 with 2409 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:57 - May 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I had noticed !
And I agree to second part !
......perhaps, heavens forbid, should anything like this happen again during pre election they should consider having a civil servant announce changes to security levels. |
Not a bad idea. During an election campaign you are no longer an MP, you are a candidate.
The Prime a minister has to still be Prime Minister, and make the day to day decisions but perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could make announcements of national security?
Then again, we would be in a situation where the person appearing to be in change is not elected.
This is new ground. [Post edited 23 May 2017 23:39]
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:06 - May 23 with 2403 views | connorscontract |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 22:33 - May 23 by HARRY10 |
Depends on what you term 'free and fair'. The referendum certainly wasn't fair in the sense that there was an awful lots of lies peddled that since are trying to be dropped.
Perhaps when political statements have to abide by the same level of 'honesty ' that the media does things might improve. By honesty I mean accountability. That doesn't hold sway at the moment.
Some may know of The Zinoviev letter. The forged letter was printed in the Daily Mail which carried headlines
"On October 25, 1924, four days before the election, the Mail splashed headlines across its front page claiming: Civil War Plot by Socialists' Masters: Moscow Orders To Our Reds; Great Plot Disclosed. Labour lost by a landslide."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/1999/feb/04/uk.politicalnews6
Unfortunately we live in a very maudlin' and self obsessed society where so many feel that an outpouring of grief is required for any death. If these deaths and injuries had been through a rail accident would there be talk of stopping the election ? So is it the method of the death toll that decides ?
Perhaps the phrase 'Keep calm and carry on' is well suited here. |
It's different from a rail disaster.
Different because it was a deliberate act, not an accident or negligence.
Different because it has a wider context and choice of responses (responding with unity, or with division)
Different because of the number of children and young people killed.
It's not maudlin or innapropriate to be moved by what has happened. Every parent is feeling for the parents who are grieving or who are still waiting for news. Surely every decent human being is?
Some of the reporting has been a bit much. Some of the photo ops of people who "just had to do their bit" feel a bit forced, but I'd rather be part of a society that responds like this than one that could fail to be moved by this. |  | | |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:09 - May 23 with 2392 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:06 - May 23 by connorscontract |
It's different from a rail disaster.
Different because it was a deliberate act, not an accident or negligence.
Different because it has a wider context and choice of responses (responding with unity, or with division)
Different because of the number of children and young people killed.
It's not maudlin or innapropriate to be moved by what has happened. Every parent is feeling for the parents who are grieving or who are still waiting for news. Surely every decent human being is?
Some of the reporting has been a bit much. Some of the photo ops of people who "just had to do their bit" feel a bit forced, but I'd rather be part of a society that responds like this than one that could fail to be moved by this. |
Well said. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:38 - May 23 with 2363 views | HARRY10 |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 23:06 - May 23 by connorscontract |
It's different from a rail disaster.
Different because it was a deliberate act, not an accident or negligence.
Different because it has a wider context and choice of responses (responding with unity, or with division)
Different because of the number of children and young people killed.
It's not maudlin or innapropriate to be moved by what has happened. Every parent is feeling for the parents who are grieving or who are still waiting for news. Surely every decent human being is?
Some of the reporting has been a bit much. Some of the photo ops of people who "just had to do their bit" feel a bit forced, but I'd rather be part of a society that responds like this than one that could fail to be moved by this. |
Perhaps if you actually read my post, rather than post up a load of self righteous twaddle it might help - in fact your comments actually reinforce my points.
You do not know the number of "number of children and young people killed"so stop basing an argument on that.
Where did I say I was not moved by this. You have no idea what my feelings are, so again, stop making up stuff. Neither do you know what every parent is feeling.
Aren't parents of those killed elsewhere grieving, irrespective of the nature of their sudden death or the age of their child ?
So get off you high horse, stop trying to take some pious moral high ground. You speak for yourself, no one else. | | | |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 07:12 - May 24 with 2315 views | factual_blue |
We had an election during WW2. |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 07:25 - May 24 with 2309 views | No9 |
Unlikely | | | |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 08:21 - May 24 with 2279 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 07:25 - May 24 by No9 |
Unlikely |
The more I think about this the more I believe it is important for the election to go ahead and campaigning resumes as quickly as possible.
As I said last night if we postponed the election then we are putting democracy in the hands of the terrorists.
If they can affect when and if we elect out government then we are on a very slippery slope. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 08:45 - May 24 with 2257 views | Steve_M |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 08:21 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
The more I think about this the more I believe it is important for the election to go ahead and campaigning resumes as quickly as possible.
As I said last night if we postponed the election then we are putting democracy in the hands of the terrorists.
If they can affect when and if we elect out government then we are on a very slippery slope. |
I think you're right there, I saw the early discussion last night and have thought about it a bit since. The 2001 election was delayed because of foot and mouth disease but I don't think it had been called, just planned, and the real issue there was a logistical one with large parts of the countryside shut down. As Factual points out we had an election during WWII.
Any attack close to an election will have an effect on the thinking of individuals, the Spanish 2004 election a case in point. Although the overwhelming factor there seemed to be the PP's clumsy attempts to blame ETA.
What shouldn't be a consideration to the timing of an election is how any such attack plays on the strengths of any party or candidate which I think in many ways supports the view that the election should take place as scheduled. |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:03 - May 24 with 2230 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 08:45 - May 24 by Steve_M |
I think you're right there, I saw the early discussion last night and have thought about it a bit since. The 2001 election was delayed because of foot and mouth disease but I don't think it had been called, just planned, and the real issue there was a logistical one with large parts of the countryside shut down. As Factual points out we had an election during WWII.
Any attack close to an election will have an effect on the thinking of individuals, the Spanish 2004 election a case in point. Although the overwhelming factor there seemed to be the PP's clumsy attempts to blame ETA.
What shouldn't be a consideration to the timing of an election is how any such attack plays on the strengths of any party or candidate which I think in many ways supports the view that the election should take place as scheduled. |
There are important lessons to be learned about who makes announcements and how they are delivered when parliament is suspended. This event will affect the election as a result of reinforced perceptions based on images rather than facts but it is what it is and I am sure will carry on as planned.
I hope the media now do not over play the 'Corbyn...blood on his hands' narrative but time will tell ! Would be nice to be pleasantly surprised for once. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:10 - May 24 with 2223 views | ghostofescobar |
The largely right wing biased press have more of an impact than anything. That's why elections will never be fair in this country. |  |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:12 - May 24 with 2220 views | lowhouseblue |
japan? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:14 - May 24 with 2216 views | Steve_M |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:03 - May 24 by BanksterDebtSlave |
There are important lessons to be learned about who makes announcements and how they are delivered when parliament is suspended. This event will affect the election as a result of reinforced perceptions based on images rather than facts but it is what it is and I am sure will carry on as planned.
I hope the media now do not over play the 'Corbyn...blood on his hands' narrative but time will tell ! Would be nice to be pleasantly surprised for once. |
I think it will inevitably benefit May, she looks instantly more assured to be on familiar ground as she is clearly a detail-orientated Minister rather than a leader more comfortable with the broader scope of government.
And FWIW both here and Corbyn came over very well yesterday imo. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:20 - May 24 with 2208 views | No9 |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 08:21 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
The more I think about this the more I believe it is important for the election to go ahead and campaigning resumes as quickly as possible.
As I said last night if we postponed the election then we are putting democracy in the hands of the terrorists.
If they can affect when and if we elect out government then we are on a very slippery slope. |
The reality is that we are a country in crisis on more than one issue.
There are factions in the community who wish to see government fail on all fronts.
The democratic process has been abused and people have little or no trust in any party.
There is a strong case for an all party coalition to work through resolving the massive uphill tasks, we as people face. | | | |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:22 - May 24 with 2203 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:12 - May 24 by lowhouseblue |
japan? |
The 1940 election was cancelled due to the war. | |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:23 - May 24 with 2198 views | lowhouseblue |
| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:22 - May 24 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The 1940 election was cancelled due to the war. |
what?? the 1945 election was before the end of wwII - we were still fighting in the far east. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Can you have a free and fair general election in this atmosphere..... on 09:27 - May 24 with 2189 views | CaptainObvious |
i don't see why not, i think what you're trying to say here you fear the situation will benefit a party you don't support |  |
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