| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? 07:55 - May 24 with 17590 views | Herbivore |
All of the terrorist attacks perpetrated in the UK this century have been carried out by people born and raised here. We really need to start asking some hard questions about why it is that people born and raised in the UK are drawn towards killing their fellow citizens in large numbers. It's too easy to just blame religion, there are hundreds of thousands (possibly over a million?) of UK citizens of the Muslim faith who would never consider taking another life. We can't look for simplistic answers anymore, this is a complex problem and unless we tackle the underlying causes of young Brits being susceptible to radical ideas we will never make any progress. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:45 - May 24 with 1885 views | Steve_M |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:15 - May 24 by chicoazul |
We live in an increasingly lawless society where family has become less and less important and personal responsibility has become denuded. I believe proper enforcement of the law especially drug laws and anti-gang laws would have the dual effect of reducing mass murder of the type you describe and reinforce the family, and that we ought to all look out for our young a bit more as it is in everyone's interests.
I have no evidence of this yet but I believe we will find the killer was a drug abuser, in all likelihood of strong cannabis and prescription drugs of some kind. So I think we should also have some sort of public enquiry into the widespread use of psycho-active prescription drugs. |
We've spent the last 20 years looking up more and more people in this country, mainly since Howard and Blair competed to accuse the other of being "soft on crime". The only drug laws politicians dare to look at are to criminalise more and more substances, even in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary. The only Western country to lock up a greater proportion of it's population is the US and that's not exactly a shining example here.
Is the country genuinely becoming lawless? General trends seem to be down, albeit with a upturn in violent crime (mainly stabbings).
Now, it's arguable that privatising both the prison service and probation will be ineffective and counter-productive in the long-term. Probation in particular is a horrible, ineffective mess now.
There aren't easy answers but I'm not sure how more of 'being tough on crime' increases personal responsibility at all. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:53 - May 24 with 1861 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:22 - May 24 by taximan |
i'm guessing your views would change if it was your children or wife killed in a terrorist attack ? (presuming you have both) |
Maybe, maybe not. I'm always amazed at the relatives who are willing to forgive terrorists and violent criminals - not sure I'd have that strength.
But I don't think having views based on anger helps anyone. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:54 - May 24 with 1858 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:09 - May 24 by imsureazzure |
I firmly believe that if someone can be persuaded to kneel, face a certain direction, chant to a imaginary being, starve oneself and dehydrate oneself during the height of summer then it is not a huge leap to further radicalise.
Islam and Catholicism two cheeks of the same controlling arse. |
Not a huge step from kneeling to someone they believe in to blowing up 22 people and aiming to kill as many kids as possible is 'not a huge leap'?
Have a word with yourself there |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:55 - May 24 with 1855 views | CaptainObvious |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:45 - May 24 by Steve_M |
We've spent the last 20 years looking up more and more people in this country, mainly since Howard and Blair competed to accuse the other of being "soft on crime". The only drug laws politicians dare to look at are to criminalise more and more substances, even in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary. The only Western country to lock up a greater proportion of it's population is the US and that's not exactly a shining example here.
Is the country genuinely becoming lawless? General trends seem to be down, albeit with a upturn in violent crime (mainly stabbings).
Now, it's arguable that privatising both the prison service and probation will be ineffective and counter-productive in the long-term. Probation in particular is a horrible, ineffective mess now.
There aren't easy answers but I'm not sure how more of 'being tough on crime' increases personal responsibility at all. |
recorded crime and crime are not the same thing. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:55 - May 24 with 1857 views | chicoazul |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:45 - May 24 by Steve_M |
We've spent the last 20 years looking up more and more people in this country, mainly since Howard and Blair competed to accuse the other of being "soft on crime". The only drug laws politicians dare to look at are to criminalise more and more substances, even in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary. The only Western country to lock up a greater proportion of it's population is the US and that's not exactly a shining example here.
Is the country genuinely becoming lawless? General trends seem to be down, albeit with a upturn in violent crime (mainly stabbings).
Now, it's arguable that privatising both the prison service and probation will be ineffective and counter-productive in the long-term. Probation in particular is a horrible, ineffective mess now.
There aren't easy answers but I'm not sure how more of 'being tough on crime' increases personal responsibility at all. |
Do you think if there are strong sanctions on criminality instead of a slap on the wrist there will be less crime committed? Do you think that if the Police acted as a crime prevention service instead of a clearing up service there would be less crime? I do. Hence there would be an increase in personal responsibility.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25657204
"half of criminals convicted of sex offences, violence and burglaries in England and Wales in 2012 were not sent to prison"
And this idiotic government continue with police budget cuts. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:56 - May 24 with 1852 views | chicoazul |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:55 - May 24 by CaptainObvious |
recorded crime and crime are not the same thing. |
Some 1 in 5 of crimes reported to the Police are not recorded by them. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:00 - May 24 with 1835 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:36 - May 24 by imsureazzure |
I think percentages are not your strongest suit. |
It's an expression. If you want to put your figure on it, be my guest.
With say 1 billion muslims who are believers not just muslims in name, there don't seem to be very many radicalized and dangerous muslims at all. In reality, that is. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:04 - May 24 with 1820 views | jeera |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:52 - May 24 by taximan |
initially it would
it would lead to a peaceful uk in the long term |
An immediate response would probably be the burning of churches and deaths of tens of thousands of 'Christians' around the globe.
I have no time for religion, but to enforce our views on others is not a feasible answer. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:11 - May 24 with 1788 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:00 - May 24 by caught-in-limbo |
Suggesting earlier (as you have done here) that we need to intervene militarily in Syria lays out for everyone to see what your (and anyone else who proposes such action) real motives are.
But your "solution" is NO solution to the problem whatsoever.
Doing what you suggest hasn't politically stabilised Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya or improved the lot of normal citizens of those countries. Has it?
But most relevant of all is that doing what you suggest hasn't eliminated vile acts of terrorism by Wahabbi groups in our own countries. Has it?
If an arsonist goes round setting fire to properties, no sensible person would suggest demolishing those properties to stamp out the spread of fire. No, you identify the source of the fire and the elements which feed it. You deal with that, and then the fire will burn out.
The only solution for this is to deal with those Gulf states which condone, support, arm and spread the ideology of these Wahabbi groups and any countries which arm their supporters and finance them with oil/gas purchases. [Post edited 24 May 2017 10:55]
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Hang in a minute. You have stated in here several times that you support Russia's military action against Jihadi fighters on Syria. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:14 - May 24 with 1796 views | imsureazzure |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:54 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Not a huge step from kneeling to someone they believe in to blowing up 22 people and aiming to kill as many kids as possible is 'not a huge leap'?
Have a word with yourself there |
bOLLOX, Have a word with yourself, who the fuk do you think you are? |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:14 - May 24 with 1792 views | Radlett_blue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:56 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Some 1 in 5 of crimes reported to the Police are not recorded by them. |
And a huge number of crimes are not even reported, as the victims know the police won't do anything about them. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:15 - May 24 with 1788 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:14 - May 24 by imsureazzure |
bOLLOX, Have a word with yourself, who the fuk do you think you are? |
That's the spirit. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:21 - May 24 with 1764 views | Gromheort |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:55 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Do you think if there are strong sanctions on criminality instead of a slap on the wrist there will be less crime committed? Do you think that if the Police acted as a crime prevention service instead of a clearing up service there would be less crime? I do. Hence there would be an increase in personal responsibility.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25657204
"half of criminals convicted of sex offences, violence and burglaries in England and Wales in 2012 were not sent to prison"
And this idiotic government continue with police budget cuts. |
Evidence suggests that sanctions are the least effective element for deterrence. Rather than greater penalties, the probability of being caught is key. We have undoubtedly overused the prison sentence, largely to pander to Daily Mail reader types. |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:23 - May 24 with 1758 views | Illinoisblue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
And in Scotland.
Not far from me the local catholic and Protestant schools merged. Which sounds great.
However, although it's the same building the kids are segregated and it has two names. The kids come through separate entrances. |
2017 everybody. 2017. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:26 - May 24 with 1748 views | imsureazzure |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:15 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
That's the spirit. |
Fuk this anger got to vent the anger, apologies.
Gloves and bag session coming up. | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:39 - May 24 with 1722 views | Steve_M |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 10:55 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Do you think if there are strong sanctions on criminality instead of a slap on the wrist there will be less crime committed? Do you think that if the Police acted as a crime prevention service instead of a clearing up service there would be less crime? I do. Hence there would be an increase in personal responsibility.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25657204
"half of criminals convicted of sex offences, violence and burglaries in England and Wales in 2012 were not sent to prison"
And this idiotic government continue with police budget cuts. |
More police on the streets (t o extenuate that point for brevity) isn't really increasing personal responsibility as much as providing a more effective deterrent though. It is a partial solution, as I think were the much derided CSOs.
Without looking at the sentencing guidelines and the judge's summing up in each case, then stats like that become too general. Given the article also reasserts that the prison population has increased drastically then it isn't as simple as people not being imprisoned because the country has gone soft.
The consequences of Cameron and Osborne's ideological attempts to shrink the state will really hit home during the next Parliament, not just in policing but right across government. Policing and health and social care are just the tip of that. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:48 - May 24 with 1704 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:26 - May 24 by imsureazzure |
Fuk this anger got to vent the anger, apologies.
Gloves and bag session coming up. |
No worries, mate. We can all understand anger at a time like this. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:56 - May 24 with 1691 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:26 - May 24 by imsureazzure |
Fuk this anger got to vent the anger, apologies.
Gloves and bag session coming up. |
seeing the pictures of some of the victims has made me incredibly angry
i'm not getting all of this tolerance stuff
they hate us and they want to kill us |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:56 - May 24 with 1692 views | blue_oyster |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:05 - May 24 by Herbivore |
That's far too simplistic though. There are numerous first, second and third generation immigrants from Middle Eastern countries living in the UK who don't see killing British citizens as an acceptable response to Western aggression in the Middle East. It's one factor, but do you think that if the people who committed these atrocities were doing well in life and integrated into their communities that they'd still want revenge against Britain? Many of the factors that lead other young people to joining gangs and getting involved in violent crime are at play here, the crimes being committed are just on a much larger scale because there is a whole ideology and modus operandi that goes with it. |
Why is it too simplistic? In most cases the NATO wars have been cited for the reasons behind the attacks. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 12:05 - May 24 with 1670 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:56 - May 24 by taximan |
seeing the pictures of some of the victims has made me incredibly angry
i'm not getting all of this tolerance stuff
they hate us and they want to kill us |
Who are "they" though? Identified terrorists, yes. Muslims, no.
No need for your usual divisiveness. Now, that really is giving the terrorists what they want. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 12:08 - May 24 with 1655 views | caught-in-limbo |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:56 - May 24 by blue_oyster |
Why is it too simplistic? In most cases the NATO wars have been cited for the reasons behind the attacks. |
While very few things connected to politics are black and white, "too simplistic" is often used when "inconvenient" and "unpalatable" are too hard to say. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 12:30 - May 24 with 1616 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 12:05 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
Who are "they" though? Identified terrorists, yes. Muslims, no.
No need for your usual divisiveness. Now, that really is giving the terrorists what they want. |
we all know who "they" are
the cnts that want to kill us
i'm a very proud dad and grandad, to have any of my family taken from me in such an act of cntishness would prove too much for me to bear, how the hell are the families dealing with this ? | | | |
| on 13:06 - May 24 with 1581 views | _ |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:34 - May 24 by taximan |
knock the lot of them down
if they want to pray to a god, then in this country you pray to our god
if they want to pray to their god
then maybe they should live in a country where islam is preached
i'm an atheist so imo its all b0ll0x |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:08 - May 24 with 1572 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 12:30 - May 24 by taximan |
we all know who "they" are
the cnts that want to kill us
i'm a very proud dad and grandad, to have any of my family taken from me in such an act of cntishness would prove too much for me to bear, how the hell are the families dealing with this ? |
Not sure we do all know who "they" are.
Earlier you seemed to think it was people who attend mosques. | |
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