| Sarah's law 15:32 - May 24 with 3475 views | textbackup |
I may be wide of the mark with what I'm saying here, purely as I've not done the research into it, however I believed Sarah's law was brought in so that parents could recognise a threat to their child within their neighbourhood/town etc (if I'm wrong please correct me)
Now, if there's 3500 on a terrorist watch list, they are watched for a reason, could this list be incredibly important to us all? So could they advise of threats in your area?
Just an idea |  |
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| Sarah's law on 15:34 - May 24 with 2581 views | DanTheMan |
Think that's for convicted sex offenders.
I doubt the security services are going to want to let people know who is on their watch list. It would be very easy for a friend of someone who wished to do harm to work out if they were being watched and then try and disappear. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 15:36 - May 24 with 2571 views | Steve_M |
Part of the idea of watch lists is to allow the police and security services to gather intelligence, either to the extent that they build a solid case to convict people of terrorism offences or so that they can foil plots.
That is a difference between protecting against paedophiles compared to protecting against terrorists and arguably Sarah's law was brought in to assuage the tabloids and demonstrate that something was being done. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 15:41 - May 24 with 2545 views | textbackup |
| Sarah's law on 15:36 - May 24 by Steve_M |
Part of the idea of watch lists is to allow the police and security services to gather intelligence, either to the extent that they build a solid case to convict people of terrorism offences or so that they can foil plots.
That is a difference between protecting against paedophiles compared to protecting against terrorists and arguably Sarah's law was brought in to assuage the tabloids and demonstrate that something was being done. |
Yeah that makes sense.
Would just be a nice heads up tho
'People of Manchester we have x suspects we are tracking, specially in area X, please stay safe' | |
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| Sarah's law on 15:45 - May 24 with 2528 views | unbelievablue |
Practically speaking, that would be disastrous. It just doesn't work in the same way. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Sarah's law about knowledge of previously convicted sex offenders?
Letting people know that there are potential radicals in their community, under surveillance, would be kerazy. It could compromise ongoing CT operations at a minimum. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 15:50 - May 24 with 2501 views | Guthrum |
| Sarah's law on 15:41 - May 24 by textbackup |
Yeah that makes sense.
Would just be a nice heads up tho
'People of Manchester we have x suspects we are tracking, specially in area X, please stay safe' |
Problem is, that's likely to alert the suspects, making them more careful with their own security and harder to track, or even push them into precipitate action (as with the Brussels Airport attack, launched prematurely when the group were spooked by police raids).
Plus it alarms the public, possibly unnecessarily if no plot actually develops. Then there is the danger that it will lead to speculation, abuse against individuals and (often poorly-targeted) vigilantism. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 15:51 - May 24 with 2496 views | DanTheMan |
| Sarah's law on 15:50 - May 24 by Guthrum |
Problem is, that's likely to alert the suspects, making them more careful with their own security and harder to track, or even push them into precipitate action (as with the Brussels Airport attack, launched prematurely when the group were spooked by police raids).
Plus it alarms the public, possibly unnecessarily if no plot actually develops. Then there is the danger that it will lead to speculation, abuse against individuals and (often poorly-targeted) vigilantism. |
And then if people hear it all the time that they need to be vigilant, it would probably end up with the opposite effect. | |
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| Sarah's law on 16:00 - May 24 with 2448 views | J2BLUE |
| Sarah's law on 15:41 - May 24 by textbackup |
Yeah that makes sense.
Would just be a nice heads up tho
'People of Manchester we have x suspects we are tracking, specially in area X, please stay safe' |
Then the suspects get out of area x in record time, possibly scattering in many directions or heading back to Syria etc until it all dies down a bit.
It's a terrible idea. Good intentions, awful idea. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 16:00 - May 24 with 2438 views | factual_blue |
This would also of course give suspected terrorists to see if they were under surveillance.
And there's the possibility of vigilantism. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 16:02 - May 24 with 2437 views | Luk38644 |
What does being on this 'watchlist' actually mean?
Obviously, the assumption is that they're 'being watched' but how could we allow someone on this watchlist to travel to Libya and then come back and blow up 22 people without any restriction whatsoever? |  | | |
| Sarah's law on 16:02 - May 24 with 2428 views | factual_blue |
| Sarah's law on 15:36 - May 24 by Steve_M |
Part of the idea of watch lists is to allow the police and security services to gather intelligence, either to the extent that they build a solid case to convict people of terrorism offences or so that they can foil plots.
That is a difference between protecting against paedophiles compared to protecting against terrorists and arguably Sarah's law was brought in to assuage the tabloids and demonstrate that something was being done. |
These are the same tabloids who happily use images of little girls who are 'all grown up' for commercial gain.
Well, I assume it's for commercial gain, and not because dacre himself has paedophile tendencies. | |
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| Sarah's law on 16:03 - May 24 with 2425 views | Guthrum |
| Sarah's law on 16:02 - May 24 by Luk38644 |
What does being on this 'watchlist' actually mean?
Obviously, the assumption is that they're 'being watched' but how could we allow someone on this watchlist to travel to Libya and then come back and blow up 22 people without any restriction whatsoever? |
If they've done nothing illegal, how do you stop them? | |
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| Sarah's law on 16:08 - May 24 with 2415 views | unbelievablue |
| Sarah's law on 16:02 - May 24 by Luk38644 |
What does being on this 'watchlist' actually mean?
Obviously, the assumption is that they're 'being watched' but how could we allow someone on this watchlist to travel to Libya and then come back and blow up 22 people without any restriction whatsoever? |
Elaborate on 'allow' in that sentence. | |
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| Sarah's law on 16:10 - May 24 with 2407 views | Luk38644 |
| Sarah's law on 16:03 - May 24 by Guthrum |
If they've done nothing illegal, how do you stop them? |
I'm not claiming to know the answer, I'm genuinely inquisitive regarding what further can be done. If these people are known to authorities, surely there is something further that can be done to help prevent these disasters? | | | |
| Sarah's law on 16:10 - May 24 with 2400 views | hype313 |
| Sarah's law on 16:10 - May 24 by Luk38644 |
I'm not claiming to know the answer, I'm genuinely inquisitive regarding what further can be done. If these people are known to authorities, surely there is something further that can be done to help prevent these disasters? |
We can't, otherwise we will end up doing a Guantanamo |  |
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| on 16:11 - May 24 with 2405 views | _ |
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| Sarah's law on 16:13 - May 24 with 2394 views | unbelievablue |
| Sarah's law on 16:10 - May 24 by Luk38644 |
I'm not claiming to know the answer, I'm genuinely inquisitive regarding what further can be done. If these people are known to authorities, surely there is something further that can be done to help prevent these disasters? |
Do you genuinely not have anything in mind? Practically speaking, I really can't see what else can be done at THAT stage. More needs to be done prior to then, to prevent that initial alienation and radicalisation. | |
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| Sarah's law on 16:14 - May 24 with 2386 views | Guthrum |
| Sarah's law on 16:10 - May 24 by Luk38644 |
I'm not claiming to know the answer, I'm genuinely inquisitive regarding what further can be done. If these people are known to authorities, surely there is something further that can be done to help prevent these disasters? |
Mostly just keep a very close eye on them, their contacts and networks. Look for patterns which might indicate something is brewing. Gather evidence (vital in any legal action). Stay vigilant. Hope nothing slips through. | |
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| Sarah's law on 16:21 - May 24 with 2356 views | homer_123 |
Well, they can hardly go telling everyone what they know now can they...what did you expect? |  |
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| Sarah's law on 16:27 - May 24 with 2343 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Sarah's Law isn't a tool to find out if the bloke down the road is dodgy and if your children shouldn't go near his house.
It's for when someone has unsupervised access to your child or a child for whom you have a legal duty of care etc, and you want to apply to find out if said child should be in their unsupervised care or not. |  |
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| Sarah's law on 16:29 - May 24 with 2326 views | blue_oyster |
Why are people so keen to create a secret police state? |  |
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| Sarah's law on 16:39 - May 24 with 2300 views | Guthrum |
| Sarah's law on 16:29 - May 24 by blue_oyster |
Why are people so keen to create a secret police state? |
Because I'd rather we didn't get to a position where this kind of thing happens more often. Security services (covert and otherwise) are absolutely necessary in some form - unless you believe the threats to the country are entirely imaginary.
And as long as it's effective, not used for political oppression and governed by the rule of law, it is a good thing. | |
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| on 17:28 - May 24 with 2228 views | _ |
| Sarah's law on 16:21 - May 24 by homer_123 |
Well, they can hardly go telling everyone what they know now can they...what did you expect? |
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| Sarah's law on 17:33 - May 24 with 2201 views | J2BLUE |
Why did you go on it? Work? | |
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| Sarah's law on 18:21 - May 24 with 2123 views | PaganBlue |
I work in education, and am Safeguarding Lead for our institution. I've been on a few different Prevent courses and workshops, and have found them really interesting. It sounds as though mine have been the complete opposite to yours - I've always been amazed at how much information has been shared. I also deliver WRAP training to other staff, and don't think I've ever mentioned beards! I actually focus a lot more on right-wing extremism, which is much more of a problem in our area. | | | |
| Sarah's law on 18:32 - May 24 with 2100 views | blue_oyster |
| Sarah's law on 16:39 - May 24 by Guthrum |
Because I'd rather we didn't get to a position where this kind of thing happens more often. Security services (covert and otherwise) are absolutely necessary in some form - unless you believe the threats to the country are entirely imaginary.
And as long as it's effective, not used for political oppression and governed by the rule of law, it is a good thing. |
You have so much faith in things you know nothing about. | |
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