| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... 09:29 - May 25 with 3768 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
That was the number published this week, and Abedi was among them.
My question, therefore, is this...
Why are these people on our streets and roaming freely among our communities?
If there's enough of a suspicion, lock them away. For me, conspiracy to commit a terrorist act, association with terrorist organisations and incitement of terrorism should all carry long custodial sentences. It shouldn't get to the stage where they're making bombs or carrying out atrocities. It shouldn't get that far.
I get that some will slip through the net, and it's impossible to know every single potential terrorist, but if they're known to the authorities, and there is suspicion around them, get them off our streets. |  |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:45 - May 25 with 1004 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:03 - May 25 by Guthrum |
Merely having an opinion is not - and should not be - a crime. After all, who knows someone's innermost thoughts? And there is a big difference between thinking something and acting upon it.
You can't start imprisoning swathes of the population merely because you think their "type" might be the kind to do something. Do you lock up every angry muslim youth who may have ever been to his ancestral country?
No, there was nothing for which he could be arrested, let alone charged, without evidence beyond which we currently know. I'm sure if the authorities had known he was plotting, there would have been raids and arrests - as has happened before. |
I'm sorry but I just don't buy that argument at all.
Neighbours had suspicions, he'd travelled to a number of well-known extremist hotbeds, including Dusseldorf, he'd travelled to London to collect the bomb... If all that alone was not enough to arrest him, he should have been closely, but covertly watched, with officers on standby to swarm in whenever he looked likely to do something.
Had they monitored his moves that very day, they'd have seen him moving towards the Manchester Arena and would have known there was a live pop-concert taking place. The threat could have been neutralised long before he walked through the front doors of that building.
I also wish to note, that I've made no reference to the fact that he was a muslim in my post, so implying that I think every "angry young muslim" should be locked up is very much mistaken. That's not a jibe at you, but I do wish to clarify my comments so as not to be racist. | |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:48 - May 25 with 998 views | unbelievablue |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:45 - May 25 by ThatMuhrenCross |
I'm sorry but I just don't buy that argument at all.
Neighbours had suspicions, he'd travelled to a number of well-known extremist hotbeds, including Dusseldorf, he'd travelled to London to collect the bomb... If all that alone was not enough to arrest him, he should have been closely, but covertly watched, with officers on standby to swarm in whenever he looked likely to do something.
Had they monitored his moves that very day, they'd have seen him moving towards the Manchester Arena and would have known there was a live pop-concert taking place. The threat could have been neutralised long before he walked through the front doors of that building.
I also wish to note, that I've made no reference to the fact that he was a muslim in my post, so implying that I think every "angry young muslim" should be locked up is very much mistaken. That's not a jibe at you, but I do wish to clarify my comments so as not to be racist. |
Did those neighbours tell the police about their suspicions? |  |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:59 - May 25 with 994 views | CaptainObvious |
Under normal circumstances it's a dreadful idea. But if, and only if, anything can be done to prevent something like this happening again, it must be done, and if that is at the expense of civil liberties, then so be it. [Post edited 25 May 2017 14:59]
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:02 - May 25 with 984 views | vapour_trail |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:48 - May 25 by unbelievablue |
Did those neighbours tell the police about their suspicions? |
Neighbours and people at the mosque he attended have said they reported concerns which were not taken seriously. |  |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:15 - May 25 with 967 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:59 - May 25 by CaptainObvious |
Under normal circumstances it's a dreadful idea. But if, and only if, anything can be done to prevent something like this happening again, it must be done, and if that is at the expense of civil liberties, then so be it. [Post edited 25 May 2017 14:59]
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I agree. Sometimes needs must.
There's no smoke without fire, so perhaps people will make sure they can't be associated by the groups in any way. | |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:16 - May 25 with 964 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:48 - May 25 by unbelievablue |
Did those neighbours tell the police about their suspicions? |
They claim they did, yes. And in this current climate, every lead should be very carefully considered. | |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:23 - May 25 with 952 views | BlueLikeJazz |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:15 - May 25 by ThatMuhrenCross |
I agree. Sometimes needs must.
There's no smoke without fire, so perhaps people will make sure they can't be associated by the groups in any way. |
"There's no smoke without fire"
You only have to look at history for about 5 mins to know that that's bollox, sadly. |  | | |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:54 - May 25 with 930 views | Guthrum |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:45 - May 25 by ThatMuhrenCross |
I'm sorry but I just don't buy that argument at all.
Neighbours had suspicions, he'd travelled to a number of well-known extremist hotbeds, including Dusseldorf, he'd travelled to London to collect the bomb... If all that alone was not enough to arrest him, he should have been closely, but covertly watched, with officers on standby to swarm in whenever he looked likely to do something.
Had they monitored his moves that very day, they'd have seen him moving towards the Manchester Arena and would have known there was a live pop-concert taking place. The threat could have been neutralised long before he walked through the front doors of that building.
I also wish to note, that I've made no reference to the fact that he was a muslim in my post, so implying that I think every "angry young muslim" should be locked up is very much mistaken. That's not a jibe at you, but I do wish to clarify my comments so as not to be racist. |
Neighbours had suspicions of what, tho? Presumably not that he was planning a bomb attack, more that he was radicalised and possibly had dodgy friends. There are lots of people like that who never go on to do anything. Plus I'm not sure how much of what is reported in the press about Abedi and his family is really accurate.
"Moving towards Manchester Arena" is a pretty meaningless concept. There's lots of things around that area, there are side-streets and he could even have been dropped off from a car right outside. For all anybody knew, he might have been going to catch a train from the nearby station.
It's a very studenty/young professionals area, so a lad walking around with a rucksack would not have aroused suspicions.
I'm not suggesting you are in any way prejudiced, just that islamist extremism is behind this particular incident. But at what point does our angry muslim youth become a dangerous potential jihadist worth investigating and even detaining? How do you tell the difference? To arrest him and search his phone/computer, you need warrants and to get those you must have reasonable grounds for suspicion. |  |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 16:04 - May 25 with 929 views | Guthrum |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 15:16 - May 25 by ThatMuhrenCross |
They claim they did, yes. And in this current climate, every lead should be very carefully considered. |
From where do the authorities get the extra resources to throw at the problem? Who pays for them? Are people prepared to see increases in taxation, or further cuts to services such as the NHS, to finance national security?
As I saw mentioned in an article earlier today, it requires a team of some 60 well-trained people and a number of vehicles (not to mention admin and organisational backup) just to keep one individual under 24-hour surveillance.
Your plan of interning all suspected terrorist sympathisers would require the building and staffing of several large new prisons, at enormous expense. | |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 16:15 - May 25 with 927 views | baxterbasics |
So I would conclude that as much as we would like to 'do something' about all these suspects to keep them off the streets, it's really only possible if we implement changes in the law that would be draconian, likely to punish some innocents, and ultimately be unproductive.
I feel the only room for tightening is in what we do with those who can actually be proven to be planning or conspiring acts of terrorism. If they have any foreign citizenship then we drop them back in their hell hole of origin ASAP. No sticking them in jail here where they will only radicalise others. If they are solely British, they get charged with treason and we apply the pre 1998 punishment. |  |
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| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 22:06 - May 25 with 888 views | BorisOrTrevor |
| 3,000 suspected extremists known to the authorities in the UK... on 14:45 - May 25 by ThatMuhrenCross |
I'm sorry but I just don't buy that argument at all.
Neighbours had suspicions, he'd travelled to a number of well-known extremist hotbeds, including Dusseldorf, he'd travelled to London to collect the bomb... If all that alone was not enough to arrest him, he should have been closely, but covertly watched, with officers on standby to swarm in whenever he looked likely to do something.
Had they monitored his moves that very day, they'd have seen him moving towards the Manchester Arena and would have known there was a live pop-concert taking place. The threat could have been neutralised long before he walked through the front doors of that building.
I also wish to note, that I've made no reference to the fact that he was a muslim in my post, so implying that I think every "angry young muslim" should be locked up is very much mistaken. That's not a jibe at you, but I do wish to clarify my comments so as not to be racist. |
Muslim/Islam is not a race. |  |
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