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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? 12:59 - May 25 with 18725 viewsitfcjoe

I hear all this talk about Mick not giving youngsters a chance, and it seems too many posters aren't looking at the league as a whole. So I have tried to....

All stats are minutes on the pitch in the league only, and all ages are at today's date

U20 players
Barnsley - 6,750 minutes (5,063 by loanees)
Nottingham Forest - 5,185 minutes
Bristol City - 3,844 minutes (3,425 by loanees)
Birmingham - 3,680 minutes (1,007 by loanees)
Huddersfield - 3,513 minutes (2,310 by loanees)
Ipswich - 3,399 minutes

So only 5 clubs have players U20 getting more game time than at Portman Road, and only 1 club (Forest) has more game time given to U20 players that aren't on loan at the club.

Players aged 21-22
Preston North End - 8,412 minutes (682 by loanees)
Forest - 8,129 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Reading - 6,811 minutes
Leeds - 5,854 minutes (1,284 by loanees)
Ipswich - 5,465 minutes (295 by loanees)

So only 4 teams have given more minutes to 21 and 22 year olds, and if you take loan players out of it we move to 4th

Overall - all players U22
Forest - 13,314 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Barnsley - 10,573 minutes (7,201 by loanees)
Ipswich - 8,864 minutes (295 by loanees)

So overall only 2 clubs are given youngsters more game time than us, and 1 of them is mostly using loanees.

The reality is that Notingham Forest are the only side who are getting more minutes out of young players than we are at all ages, when you take out loan players - other than them we are right up there in every category.

For the purpose of this exercise our young players are Dozzell, Emmanuel, Kenlock, Bishop (U20) and Grant, Digby, Webster and Ward (U22) - so a mixture of academy products and signings, but most importantly nearly all of them are tied down for at tleast the next couple of years.

Mick has many faults, but the stats show it is unfair to accuse him of not giving youngsters game time.

[Post edited 25 May 2017 13:02]

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:20 - May 27 with 3302 viewsClausThomsen

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:12 - May 27 by SomethingBlue

I think your first paragraph explains a lot about what passes for analysis from many other posters — simply no ability to place what happens with Town into any kind of context or recognise other clubs exist.


Every club has it's own strategy - our successes have always come from integrating youth players into the first team.

Derby's strategy is spraying cash at it.

We can't and shouldn't use Derby's strategy, and MM's record of integrating youth players is very poor over his 25 year managerial career.

This effort to paint him as George Burley-esque is ridiculous.
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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:33 - May 27 with 3278 viewsThe_Romford_Blue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:10 - May 27 by ClausThomsen

No-one's been criticizing MM for not playing his own signings, the criticism has been at his inability to trust unproven youngsters produced by Klug's academy. Webster and Ward were given their chance by other managers.

The shocking finding here for me is how little youngsters are playing at even this level. We could have a generation of mediocre players on the horizon which, with the world cup in Qatar and FIFA's "game of 4 quarters" agenda, could result in a horrific crash for the sport.


Webster wasn't really given a chance at Pompey though

If you think back, the Pompey fans were happier with Clarke than Webster when the deal went through

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:37 - May 27 with 3270 viewsSomethingBlue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:20 - May 27 by ClausThomsen

Every club has it's own strategy - our successes have always come from integrating youth players into the first team.

Derby's strategy is spraying cash at it.

We can't and shouldn't use Derby's strategy, and MM's record of integrating youth players is very poor over his 25 year managerial career.

This effort to paint him as George Burley-esque is ridiculous.


It's just a study that shows his record with Town at the moment isn't — by the most accurate measures available to us — at all bad. You can argue with the facts all you like; it's better just to accept them and engage.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:12 - May 27 with 3247 viewsHerbivore

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 14:10 - May 27 by ClausThomsen

No-one's been criticizing MM for not playing his own signings, the criticism has been at his inability to trust unproven youngsters produced by Klug's academy. Webster and Ward were given their chance by other managers.

The shocking finding here for me is how little youngsters are playing at even this level. We could have a generation of mediocre players on the horizon which, with the world cup in Qatar and FIFA's "game of 4 quarters" agenda, could result in a horrific crash for the sport.


Where's the evidence that he doesn't trust the youngsters? He's blooded plenty of young players in his time here.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:14 - May 27 with 3241 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:12 - May 27 by Herbivore

Where's the evidence that he doesn't trust the youngsters? He's blooded plenty of young players in his time here.


Yes, but not when you find reasons to discount them all, duh

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:42 - May 27 with 3227 viewsHerbivore

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:14 - May 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Yes, but not when you find reasons to discount them all, duh


Of course, my bad. Emmanuel and Kenlock don't count because he's played them several times last season and this but wouldn't have done if he thought he could get away with it. Dozzell doesn't count as Mick thought he was picking a near 50 year old Jason and dropped him once he realised his error. Bishop doesn't count because Mick makes him train and so he gets injuries and isn't fit to play. Ward and Webster don't count because Mick only decided to sign them and play them, his wife didn't give birth to them. Are there any others I've forgotten?

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:56 - May 27 with 3218 viewsitfcjoe

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:49 - May 27 by ClausThomsen

He shoe-horned Webster and Ward in there because without them the stats are unremarkable.

MM has said that Emmanuel and Kenlock are back-up and that's what they've been used as. He also said that last season but this season there's been injuries at fullback which have lead to more appearances. They'll be back-up again next season.

I'd wager that we'd be right up there if the same analysis was done with 30+ players.

Mick deserves credit up to the playoffs and very little since. He has failed to build on that promise. Until an announcement or a signing is made then there's still hope that the 70+% of the ITFC fans polled on this site will have their wish and McCarthy will be rightfully relieved of his duties.



You are absolutely impossible, even if you don't look at Ward and Webster and focus on just U20s we are 5th in the league and 4th without loaners.

Do you not think other clubs get injuries and have youngsters as back ups.

Your inability to give Mick any credit shows you up to be so one eyed it's an embarrassment.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 16:35 - May 27 with 3194 viewsClausThomsen

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:56 - May 27 by itfcjoe

You are absolutely impossible, even if you don't look at Ward and Webster and focus on just U20s we are 5th in the league and 4th without loaners.

Do you not think other clubs get injuries and have youngsters as back ups.

Your inability to give Mick any credit shows you up to be so one eyed it's an embarrassment.


Why U20s? Was U21s less favourable? Your criteria of U20s and U22s is absurd, as is your inclusion of Webster and Ward who you know were integrated into first team football by other managers.

I give Mick plenty of credit for the seasons up until the playoffs - but it's over, he's absolutely failed to build on that and our trajectory has reversed alarmingly.

Until an announcement or a signing, there is hope that our chairman grows some balls. Hopefully Mick is being allowed to enjoy his holiday and there'll be an important message waiting for him on his answerphone.

We're equally "impossible" to each other - you haven't budged an inch either and constantly try to paint MM as a lesser problem or as someone hard done by (and now as a George Burley 'Working with youngsters 20' type). With the footnote that you think he should leave - because you know next season is going to be an absolute disaster if we let this trajectory continue and this stewardship fester further. His decision-making, tactics, team selections and most of his signings have been ballbags for 2 seasons, and now even his interviews are sh*te.
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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 17:49 - May 27 with 3161 viewsitfcjoe

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 16:35 - May 27 by ClausThomsen

Why U20s? Was U21s less favourable? Your criteria of U20s and U22s is absurd, as is your inclusion of Webster and Ward who you know were integrated into first team football by other managers.

I give Mick plenty of credit for the seasons up until the playoffs - but it's over, he's absolutely failed to build on that and our trajectory has reversed alarmingly.

Until an announcement or a signing, there is hope that our chairman grows some balls. Hopefully Mick is being allowed to enjoy his holiday and there'll be an important message waiting for him on his answerphone.

We're equally "impossible" to each other - you haven't budged an inch either and constantly try to paint MM as a lesser problem or as someone hard done by (and now as a George Burley 'Working with youngsters 20' type). With the footnote that you think he should leave - because you know next season is going to be an absolute disaster if we let this trajectory continue and this stewardship fester further. His decision-making, tactics, team selections and most of his signings have been ballbags for 2 seasons, and now even his interviews are sh*te.


U20s at today's date was to show teenagers

U22s at today's date was to show what we're basically U21s.

Plenty of other clubs have also signed players, but playing youngsters is a positive but you won't give Mick one iota of credit

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 17:53 - May 27 with 3157 viewsMullet

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 15:56 - May 27 by itfcjoe

You are absolutely impossible, even if you don't look at Ward and Webster and focus on just U20s we are 5th in the league and 4th without loaners.

Do you not think other clubs get injuries and have youngsters as back ups.

Your inability to give Mick any credit shows you up to be so one eyed it's an embarrassment.


Isn't this bloke the one who criticise every view of a game that he hasn't seen cos he's an ex-pat? Appears suddenly knowing the lay of the land on here, slating anyone who isn't blubbing then it turns out he hasn't seen a kick at all?

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 18:34 - May 27 with 3140 viewsHerbivore

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 17:53 - May 27 by Mullet

Isn't this bloke the one who criticise every view of a game that he hasn't seen cos he's an ex-pat? Appears suddenly knowing the lay of the land on here, slating anyone who isn't blubbing then it turns out he hasn't seen a kick at all?


That's the one. Not been to a game in 2 years but thinks he knows more than those who go every week, despite his error-laden posts that highlight that he hasn't actually seen the games he's commenting on.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:34 - May 27 with 3106 viewsunstableblue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 11:34 - May 27 by Herbivore

Young players that Mick chose to sign and then chose to play should be excluded from our stats on playing young players? What's the logic for that, aside from not wanting to give Mick any credit at all for anything?


Jeeze, again you're misinterpreting - I have already said that Mick should be lauded for bringing Mings through which was fantastic. You could say the same about Ryan Fraser, albeit perhaps he had played a number of games for Bournemouth. I can't recall. Maitland Niles was another good example of bringing youth that was untested through. Albeit you could say he didn't know how to nurture and progress that particular player.

They would definitely be in Joes stats if they had been last season.

But Ward and Webster had played a lot of senior games in the championship and div one.

That's all I'm saying.

Again mick not bringing youth through is not a major gripe I have with the guy. I have a problem with how he sets up the team and his system.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:37 - May 27 with 3098 viewsMullet

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:34 - May 27 by unstableblue

Jeeze, again you're misinterpreting - I have already said that Mick should be lauded for bringing Mings through which was fantastic. You could say the same about Ryan Fraser, albeit perhaps he had played a number of games for Bournemouth. I can't recall. Maitland Niles was another good example of bringing youth that was untested through. Albeit you could say he didn't know how to nurture and progress that particular player.

They would definitely be in Joes stats if they had been last season.

But Ward and Webster had played a lot of senior games in the championship and div one.

That's all I'm saying.

Again mick not bringing youth through is not a major gripe I have with the guy. I have a problem with how he sets up the team and his system.


I think you mean league 2 in the case of Webster no?

The whole post is about young players playing. The fact we take them from our academy and other clubs and make them good enough to play at this level is exactly what people demanded when the Cat1 charade was going on and we were being cheated by the powers that be, who didn't want us in their little club.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:44 - May 27 with 3091 viewsunstableblue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 11:27 - May 27 by itfcjoe

Re first two paragraphs, this talks as though we are the only club that buy in a youngster, or play a young player due to injuries - Forest spent millions on Clough, other players got opportunities due to injuries - without a forensic knowledge of every club, and in reality an agenda, it's not possible to do anything worthwhile that isn't a simple look at the stats.

Looking at Forest specifically, would Brereton have got as many games but for Assombalonga's injury? Over 4K minutes were purely Ben Osborn too.

If you look at the underlying data you'd be more positive, we really are giving young players chances - both through the academy and signed, and the best ones are tied down on long contracts.

Webster staying fit could have but us top of the list, Kenlock got ahead of Knudsen but then was injured for 6 weeks after QPR.

Young players are not getting much time in this league, we are doing well in this regard and they'll all be better for it - I think Mick should go this summer, I doubt he will, but if he does he has left us in a better position with the experience given to young players this year, whether signed or brought through.

Too many total Mick Outers just won't give him any credit


You're in danger of becoming something blue and mullet here Joe. And I think you're one of the most fair and level headed posters on here.

You've gone off the handle a bit.

I do not think Mick doesn't bring through youth!!! That's not his flaw.

I also think your research is to be lauded.

I just felt Ward and Webster didn't fit the profile of bringing through youth.

Maitland niles had played 1 senior game prior to Ipswich which was Mick being who you want him to be. Webster had played nearly 70 league games. Ward had played 53 league games and 20 for Chicago fire.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:00 - May 27 with 3074 viewsHerbivore

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:34 - May 27 by unstableblue

Jeeze, again you're misinterpreting - I have already said that Mick should be lauded for bringing Mings through which was fantastic. You could say the same about Ryan Fraser, albeit perhaps he had played a number of games for Bournemouth. I can't recall. Maitland Niles was another good example of bringing youth that was untested through. Albeit you could say he didn't know how to nurture and progress that particular player.

They would definitely be in Joes stats if they had been last season.

But Ward and Webster had played a lot of senior games in the championship and div one.

That's all I'm saying.

Again mick not bringing youth through is not a major gripe I have with the guy. I have a problem with how he sets up the team and his system.


I could go into more detail but I'd be wasting my time so I'll just say this - on this issue you're chatting absolute guff.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:07 - May 27 with 3062 viewsunstableblue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:00 - May 27 by Herbivore

I could go into more detail but I'd be wasting my time so I'll just say this - on this issue you're chatting absolute guff.


What guff? That's a bit of a silly response.

Just a bit more factual points below; no doubt guff in your mind.

Maitland niles had played 1 senior game prior to Ipswich which was Mick being who you want him to be. Webster had played nearly 70 league games. Ward had played 53 league games and 20 for Chicago fire.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:11 - May 27 with 3058 viewsHerbivore

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:07 - May 27 by unstableblue

What guff? That's a bit of a silly response.

Just a bit more factual points below; no doubt guff in your mind.

Maitland niles had played 1 senior game prior to Ipswich which was Mick being who you want him to be. Webster had played nearly 70 league games. Ward had played 53 league games and 20 for Chicago fire.


So? Webster had played no football in the Championship, Ward had one season at this level. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here, are you suggesting these were proven players he signed and put in his team? Do you not think it's good that we've signed two youngsters with potential and integrated them into our first team?

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:32 - May 27 with 3048 viewsunstableblue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:11 - May 27 by Herbivore

So? Webster had played no football in the Championship, Ward had one season at this level. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here, are you suggesting these were proven players he signed and put in his team? Do you not think it's good that we've signed two youngsters with potential and integrated them into our first team?


Maybe you're right. But they are both 22; and were in fact over 21 at the start of the season.

For example the following article on EFL incentives for bringing through youth is U21 and homegrown:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4014952/

Perhaps my view is wrong, just would be interest in Joes excellent analysis without those two players. Especially when from memory they had near 1million transfer fees.

Would happily encourage mick to do more of the same.

Few more Kenlocks and Mings would also be good.

But again would agree Mick DOES give youth a chance.

It's whether he can develop them In a pretty turgid football style
that is the question, surely?

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:42 - May 27 with 3035 viewsitfcjoe

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:44 - May 27 by unstableblue

You're in danger of becoming something blue and mullet here Joe. And I think you're one of the most fair and level headed posters on here.

You've gone off the handle a bit.

I do not think Mick doesn't bring through youth!!! That's not his flaw.

I also think your research is to be lauded.

I just felt Ward and Webster didn't fit the profile of bringing through youth.

Maitland niles had played 1 senior game prior to Ipswich which was Mick being who you want him to be. Webster had played nearly 70 league games. Ward had played 53 league games and 20 for Chicago fire.


If. not bringing through youths isn't Mickd flaw, why are you worrying on this Thread?

He getscabode for not posing kids, he does play kids but we are still rubbish!

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 22:39 - May 27 with 3009 viewsunstableblue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 21:42 - May 27 by itfcjoe

If. not bringing through youths isn't Mickd flaw, why are you worrying on this Thread?

He getscabode for not posing kids, he does play kids but we are still rubbish!


I don't really understand your reply.

And I wasn't worrying about this thread.

Just trying to debate on a football message board about 2 of the players in your excellent analysis.

Apologies for getting involved.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 23:21 - May 27 with 2994 viewsjeera

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 22:39 - May 27 by unstableblue

I don't really understand your reply.

And I wasn't worrying about this thread.

Just trying to debate on a football message board about 2 of the players in your excellent analysis.

Apologies for getting involved.


I have to say one thing about you...

You have some rather 'out there' views, many I disagree with, and you tend to invite controversy.

But you are generally polite, even when getting stick.

Credit where it's due.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 09:30 - May 28 with 2952 viewsitfcjoe

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 22:39 - May 27 by unstableblue

I don't really understand your reply.

And I wasn't worrying about this thread.

Just trying to debate on a football message board about 2 of the players in your excellent analysis.

Apologies for getting involved.


As you may have guessed I'd had a few....!

What I was trying to say that this thread was purely about youngsters, if one of your issues isn't about him bringing them through and playing them then you agree with the OP.

We all know he's not likely to be the answer here, and that the footy is terrible at times.

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 09:59 - May 28 with 2934 viewsSomethingBlue

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 20:44 - May 27 by unstableblue

You're in danger of becoming something blue and mullet here Joe. And I think you're one of the most fair and level headed posters on here.

You've gone off the handle a bit.

I do not think Mick doesn't bring through youth!!! That's not his flaw.

I also think your research is to be lauded.

I just felt Ward and Webster didn't fit the profile of bringing through youth.

Maitland niles had played 1 senior game prior to Ipswich which was Mick being who you want him to be. Webster had played nearly 70 league games. Ward had played 53 league games and 20 for Chicago fire.


"You're in danger of becoming something blue and mullet here Joe. "

Mate, you're making yourself sound very silly!

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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 10:23 - May 28 with 2918 viewsClausThomsen

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 18:34 - May 27 by Herbivore

That's the one. Not been to a game in 2 years but thinks he knows more than those who go every week, despite his error-laden posts that highlight that he hasn't actually seen the games he's commenting on.


You missed a cracking FA cup final while you were talking about me like a teenage lass.
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Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 10:26 - May 28 with 2915 viewsHerbivore

Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 10:23 - May 28 by ClausThomsen

You missed a cracking FA cup final while you were talking about me like a teenage lass.


I watched it, it was a good game. Arsenal played well.

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