| Rachel's message is clear then 08:33 - Nov 4 with 3083 views | bluelagos |
The economy is totally fcked and we're going to have to pay more in tax.
Thanks to all you Brexiteers for making it worse than it needed to be. Hope you all enjoy your blue passports.
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:37 - Nov 4 with 2090 views | Herbivore |
Promising they wouldn't raise taxes was such a ridiculous manifesto pledge, the economic headwinds were against them and they knew it. If you want to fix a country that the Tories spent 14 years breaking it's going to cost money and you aren't going to suddenly grow a stagnant economy through nothing but hope and vibes. Labour have been a massive disappointment in many ways but arguably the biggest is in their capacity to continually score own goals by saying things they don't need to say and then having to backtrack on them. They were always going to win the last election, they'd have been better off being honest about the need to tax more to make the country better and get the economy going. They are hopeless at politics. |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:41 - Nov 4 with 2074 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:37 - Nov 4 by Herbivore |
Promising they wouldn't raise taxes was such a ridiculous manifesto pledge, the economic headwinds were against them and they knew it. If you want to fix a country that the Tories spent 14 years breaking it's going to cost money and you aren't going to suddenly grow a stagnant economy through nothing but hope and vibes. Labour have been a massive disappointment in many ways but arguably the biggest is in their capacity to continually score own goals by saying things they don't need to say and then having to backtrack on them. They were always going to win the last election, they'd have been better off being honest about the need to tax more to make the country better and get the economy going. They are hopeless at politics. |
The flip side is that admitting you will raise taxes in a manifesto rarely leads to an election win. I am sure this isn't the first government to promise it and then go back on that promise.
The only example I can recall of increasing taxes still leading to an election win was Blair's "Education, education, education" soundbite. How our public services (especially education) need such again! |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:52 - Nov 4 with 1990 views | Herbivore |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:41 - Nov 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The flip side is that admitting you will raise taxes in a manifesto rarely leads to an election win. I am sure this isn't the first government to promise it and then go back on that promise.
The only example I can recall of increasing taxes still leading to an election win was Blair's "Education, education, education" soundbite. How our public services (especially education) need such again! |
I think in tbe context of 2024, the Tories were toast regardless. Labour could have been honest about the need to tax to invest or even to have been non-committal on tax rises and still have won the election. There was no need to promise they wouldn't raise taxes, it was stupid at the time and even stupider a year and a bit later. | |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:56 - Nov 4 with 1986 views | DJR |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:52 - Nov 4 by Herbivore |
I think in tbe context of 2024, the Tories were toast regardless. Labour could have been honest about the need to tax to invest or even to have been non-committal on tax rises and still have won the election. There was no need to promise they wouldn't raise taxes, it was stupid at the time and even stupider a year and a bit later. |
And they could have prayed in aid what Paul Johnson of the IFS was saying during the election campaign about parties needing to be honest about the state of the public finances. |  | | |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:00 - Nov 4 with 1925 views | Herbivore |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:56 - Nov 4 by DJR |
And they could have prayed in aid what Paul Johnson of the IFS was saying during the election campaign about parties needing to be honest about the state of the public finances. |
Yep. After 14 years of no straight answers and deliberate dishonesty from the Tories, the last thing the country wanted was more of the same. But that's effectively what we've got, albeit slightly watered down in comparison. No wonder the two major parties are tanking in the polls. | |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:05 - Nov 4 with 1919 views | RadioOrwell |
And a special word of thanks for 14 years of Tory. ( Go Truss ! ) |  | | |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:05 - Nov 4 with 1905 views | Swansea_Blue |
Agreed with all your posts above Herbs. They’re utterly hopeless at politics and messaging. They’re doing some good stuff, but that’s lost amongst the self-inflicted cock-ups. |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:08 - Nov 4 with 1863 views | Churchman |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:41 - Nov 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The flip side is that admitting you will raise taxes in a manifesto rarely leads to an election win. I am sure this isn't the first government to promise it and then go back on that promise.
The only example I can recall of increasing taxes still leading to an election win was Blair's "Education, education, education" soundbite. How our public services (especially education) need such again! |
They’d have won the election even if they’d said income tax was going up 5p in the £1. Why? Because governments lose elections. The opposition never win them. Who with a brain cell beyond Jacob and the uber-chinless was going to vote for that bunch of criminals?
Hamstringing yourself as Labour did was stupid. Very much fob them off and worry about it tomorrow. Nothing has changed. Last years budget was a once in a lifetime event according to Reeves. Yeah, right. Like anyone believed that any more that this years will be once in a lifetime, or next.
Business is Labours priority? No it isn’t. In 18 months the only indication I’ve seen of their interest in business is to hit it with NI and to allow old swivel eyes Milliband to load it with the highest energy costs in the universe.
If it cared a jot about business it would plan to reverse tory Austerity destruction (how about employing and training more tax inspectors to go after those who don’t pay their share for example?) and to reverse as much of Brexit as possible for starters.
Perhaps invest in infrastructure. You know, roads, rail and stuff? Take a look at the number of business parks that sprung up around the M25 after it was built. They didn’t appear by accident. Where does the money come from? Borrow it. The fiscal rules are Rachel’s. How about a ‘war bond’ style scheme?
The biggest concern is not free gear Kier, Rachel from accounts or that loon Milliband. It’s that this government already shows signs of drifting. Clueless inertia. By kicking the can down the road on things like unlimited mass immigration (which it actually supports but doesn’t dare say so), it’s creating conditions for a real bunch of maniacs in the guise of Reform to get a foot in the door or even gain power.
Just random thoughts and fears. |  | | |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:11 - Nov 4 with 1812 views | Herbivore |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:05 - Nov 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed with all your posts above Herbs. They’re utterly hopeless at politics and messaging. They’re doing some good stuff, but that’s lost amongst the self-inflicted cock-ups. |
It's part of them having no real vision or principles. If you have those things, you can be positive in your messaging and try to drive the narrative. Instead, everything ends up being very reactive. They've spent most of their first year trying to head off Reform by being tough on immigration and the rest of the time blaming the Tories for everything. We know the Tories ruined the country, we want to know what you're going to do to fix it and what kind of country you want us to be. They haven't managed to sell that at all. And they have managed to be much tougher on immigration - or at least much more effective - than the Tories but that gets lost because they are never going to be able to go as far as the rabid right wingers want them to. But they're incapable of changing the script on anything so instead they look like they're bumbling about not really pleasing anyone. [Post edited 4 Nov 9:31]
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:11 - Nov 4 with 1825 views | bournemouthblue |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:52 - Nov 4 by Herbivore |
I think in tbe context of 2024, the Tories were toast regardless. Labour could have been honest about the need to tax to invest or even to have been non-committal on tax rises and still have won the election. There was no need to promise they wouldn't raise taxes, it was stupid at the time and even stupider a year and a bit later. |
It was naive to suggest it, didn't the Tories do something with Natuonal insurance which was always going to be unsustainable? |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:18 - Nov 4 with 1754 views | Herbivore |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:11 - Nov 4 by bournemouthblue |
It was naive to suggest it, didn't the Tories do something with Natuonal insurance which was always going to be unsustainable? |
Yes, Hunt gave out an unfunded NI cut to scorch the earth that bit more for Labour. Honestly, those w@nkers should be tried for treason. | |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:18 - Nov 4 with 1776 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:37 - Nov 4 by Herbivore |
Promising they wouldn't raise taxes was such a ridiculous manifesto pledge, the economic headwinds were against them and they knew it. If you want to fix a country that the Tories spent 14 years breaking it's going to cost money and you aren't going to suddenly grow a stagnant economy through nothing but hope and vibes. Labour have been a massive disappointment in many ways but arguably the biggest is in their capacity to continually score own goals by saying things they don't need to say and then having to backtrack on them. They were always going to win the last election, they'd have been better off being honest about the need to tax more to make the country better and get the economy going. They are hopeless at politics. |
I do agree with you, although I do wonder how much worse it genuinely has been than they thought. It was silly to promise it, but it sounds like they can have some fair complaints in terms of being stitched up by Jeremy Hunt and then the OBR screwing them over with an incorrect/delayed forecast.
I don't mind paying slightly more tax as long as it's used well. This idea we can just keep cutting public services is nonsense - I wish she'd just immediately reversed that stupid cut Hunt did right before the election.
EDIT: My other hope is that now she kind of recognises just how unpopular they are, they feel liberated to fix some long term issues, and just get on with it - benefitting every one long term. [Post edited 4 Nov 9:24]
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:31 - Nov 4 with 1651 views | Churchman |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:18 - Nov 4 by JammyDodgerrr |
I do agree with you, although I do wonder how much worse it genuinely has been than they thought. It was silly to promise it, but it sounds like they can have some fair complaints in terms of being stitched up by Jeremy Hunt and then the OBR screwing them over with an incorrect/delayed forecast.
I don't mind paying slightly more tax as long as it's used well. This idea we can just keep cutting public services is nonsense - I wish she'd just immediately reversed that stupid cut Hunt did right before the election.
EDIT: My other hope is that now she kind of recognises just how unpopular they are, they feel liberated to fix some long term issues, and just get on with it - benefitting every one long term. [Post edited 4 Nov 9:24]
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I don’t. They knew what the situation was every bit as much as the Tories did at the time of the election. They were fully briefed by the Treasury as the Opposition always are. Besides, most work of government is behind the scenes in committees etc. The tv grandstanding is just for public consumption.
That piece of work left his little hand grenade for sure. But the true destruction started with Austerity and the criminal tories mission of hate and contempt.
Sadly your taxes won’t be well used. Rachel and the bemused have no idea what to do so it’ll dribble away and they’ll be back at the table next year. | | | |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:49 - Nov 4 with 1554 views | Edmundo |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:31 - Nov 4 by Churchman |
I don’t. They knew what the situation was every bit as much as the Tories did at the time of the election. They were fully briefed by the Treasury as the Opposition always are. Besides, most work of government is behind the scenes in committees etc. The tv grandstanding is just for public consumption.
That piece of work left his little hand grenade for sure. But the true destruction started with Austerity and the criminal tories mission of hate and contempt.
Sadly your taxes won’t be well used. Rachel and the bemused have no idea what to do so it’ll dribble away and they’ll be back at the table next year. |
I hate to state the bleedin obvious, but isn't it time that taxes were simplified for employees/self employed, and the elephant of international e-commerce was actually tackled with some levies on the tax evading companies like Google, Meta etc, and of course their owners?
Or is this going to lose the politicians their free stuff? |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:55 - Nov 4 with 1523 views | Steve_M |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:31 - Nov 4 by Churchman |
I don’t. They knew what the situation was every bit as much as the Tories did at the time of the election. They were fully briefed by the Treasury as the Opposition always are. Besides, most work of government is behind the scenes in committees etc. The tv grandstanding is just for public consumption.
That piece of work left his little hand grenade for sure. But the true destruction started with Austerity and the criminal tories mission of hate and contempt.
Sadly your taxes won’t be well used. Rachel and the bemused have no idea what to do so it’ll dribble away and they’ll be back at the table next year. |
Yes, Labour had a good idea pre-election of the mess they would face, especially after the two cuts to National Insurance which were totally cynical.
Osborne and Cameron broke nearly every aspect of the British state though, and then Brexit compounded that.
Late period Osborne: interest rates at zero and 50-80bn of headroom: and his priority was “don’t invest”. — Jo Michell (@jomichell.bsky.social) 2025-11-04T08:21:33.442Z
There are two underlying problems for this country though, firstly the lack of economic growth since 2008 which makes everything harder (Osborne and Cameron bare a lot of blame for this as above) but secondly demographics - as the population ages an ever increasing amount of money is needed to pay for pensions and health care. |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:57 - Nov 4 with 1497 views | Luk38644 |
I thought the last budget was a 'once in a parliament budget' and further tax rises wouldn't be on the table' going forwards? Why make these pledges to back peddle so soon after? Yet another broken Labour pledge.
When do these people actually get held to account for their lies? It's embarrassing. Can't keep blaming everyone else either. They simply don't know how to spend the money properly so keep asking for more. Ridiculous. |  | | |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:08 - Nov 4 with 1448 views | glasso |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:41 - Nov 4 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The flip side is that admitting you will raise taxes in a manifesto rarely leads to an election win. I am sure this isn't the first government to promise it and then go back on that promise.
The only example I can recall of increasing taxes still leading to an election win was Blair's "Education, education, education" soundbite. How our public services (especially education) need such again! |
The problem they all seem to have is becoming so easily bogged down in the question of 'will you or won't you raise tax?'
Obviously running on a manifesto of 'we're going to take more from your paypacket' is going to be a difficult sell. But why not actually preach the benefits of it (education, education, education!) - as in, what will improve for me if you're in power?
I'd argue that most people don't mind paying tax. It just becomes galling seeing most of your pay cheque disappear every month into the Government's coffers, and our lives getting worse while billionaires donors miraculously pick up overpriced contracts on taxpayers' dime. |  | | |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:23 - Nov 4 with 1400 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 09:57 - Nov 4 by Luk38644 |
I thought the last budget was a 'once in a parliament budget' and further tax rises wouldn't be on the table' going forwards? Why make these pledges to back peddle so soon after? Yet another broken Labour pledge.
When do these people actually get held to account for their lies? It's embarrassing. Can't keep blaming everyone else either. They simply don't know how to spend the money properly so keep asking for more. Ridiculous. |
They get held to account at the next election trouble is the result is likely to be even worse with a split Socialist vote letting in Reform.
What a choice Reform or a squabbling coalition involving the splintered Labour vote, Nationalist (self interest) parties and a rejuvenated Lib Dem centre party. |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:30 - Nov 4 with 1375 views | Luk38644 |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:23 - Nov 4 by Pinewoodblue |
They get held to account at the next election trouble is the result is likely to be even worse with a split Socialist vote letting in Reform.
What a choice Reform or a squabbling coalition involving the splintered Labour vote, Nationalist (self interest) parties and a rejuvenated Lib Dem centre party. |
It's clear to see why the polls are currently how they are - people are fed up up of Lab/Con and want a change, those on the left are going to Lib/Greens & those on the right to Reform.
Problem is, can we afford to wait another 3 1/2 years with this government? | | | |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:37 - Nov 4 with 1319 views | itfcjoe |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:30 - Nov 4 by Luk38644 |
It's clear to see why the polls are currently how they are - people are fed up up of Lab/Con and want a change, those on the left are going to Lib/Greens & those on the right to Reform.
Problem is, can we afford to wait another 3 1/2 years with this government? |
The 3 1/2 years will be a breeze compared to what follows if polling is correct. |  |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:37 - Nov 4 with 1309 views | Steve_M |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:30 - Nov 4 by Luk38644 |
It's clear to see why the polls are currently how they are - people are fed up up of Lab/Con and want a change, those on the left are going to Lib/Greens & those on the right to Reform.
Problem is, can we afford to wait another 3 1/2 years with this government? |
Luke, why do you think that the underlying fundamentals - limited growth, ageing population, are going to get better with a different government?
There aren't endless savings to be made by reducing benefits or billions to suddenly be found with a wealth tax and public services are largely fked. | |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:38 - Nov 4 with 1303 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:30 - Nov 4 by Luk38644 |
It's clear to see why the polls are currently how they are - people are fed up up of Lab/Con and want a change, those on the left are going to Lib/Greens & those on the right to Reform.
Problem is, can we afford to wait another 3 1/2 years with this government? |
We don’t have any choice. | |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:42 - Nov 4 with 1264 views | J2BLUE |
She needs to be sacked. Bring in someone who actually has a clue.
Farage is in the news saying he could cut minimum wage for young people. Worse than that, he has repeated his claim that manifesto commitments are just "aspirations".
That's twice now, that I have seen, that he has said similar. Now he will be able to say at least I admit it unlike Labour who lied.
Reform just gain ground on a daily basis. I keep waiting for it to stop. For sanity to prevail but there is just no credible party to unite behind. The only hope is that Labour replace Starmer and Reeves, have a big giveaway budget before the next election and somehow find a way to stop the small boats.
It looks bleak. Especially if we have Trump in office (Bannon claims a plan is in place to let him run again) or another Republican on the more extreme side (Vance etc) who will openly back Farage. [Post edited 4 Nov 11:50]
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:53 - Nov 4 with 1197 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 08:52 - Nov 4 by Herbivore |
I think in tbe context of 2024, the Tories were toast regardless. Labour could have been honest about the need to tax to invest or even to have been non-committal on tax rises and still have won the election. There was no need to promise they wouldn't raise taxes, it was stupid at the time and even stupider a year and a bit later. |
i think the one way in which labour could have lost in 2024 was to let the tories and their supporters run a campaign along the lines of 'labour's tax bombshell'. it's been done before and it's worked. any doubt about labour's plans would have been exploited ruthlessly and they would have convinced people that personal taxes were going up significantly. the reality is that labour couldn't let a hint of tax rises be linked to them. i do think there's a bit of re-writing history, and all uk political experience, to suggest that labour could have campaigned on a programme of rising taxes and still won. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:55 - Nov 4 with 1150 views | Luk38644 |
| Rachel's message is clear then on 10:37 - Nov 4 by itfcjoe |
The 3 1/2 years will be a breeze compared to what follows if polling is correct. |
Subjective.
Lots said that Labour was 'grown ups returning to Downing Street' and they'd regain control of finances, that certainly hasn't happened, even by their own admission hence upcoming further tax rises! | | | |
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