| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? 22:40 - Apr 1 with 4049 views | rosseden |
Does anyone know the rules. For example. If we were already bottom 3 and went into admin, does the -10 carry over, so you'd be in L1 on -10. Or do you go down with ten less points? |  |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 22:45 - Apr 1 with 3079 views | factual_blue |
Ten fewer points. |  |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 22:47 - Apr 1 with 3070 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 22:45 - Apr 1 by factual_blue |
Ten fewer points. |
Do you know what the cut off date is? | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:17 - Apr 1 with 2986 views | factual_blue |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 22:47 - Apr 1 by rosseden |
Do you know what the cut off date is? |
No. And I'm not clear how it would help to go into administration. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:22 - Apr 1 with 2970 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:17 - Apr 1 by factual_blue |
No. And I'm not clear how it would help to go into administration. |
It doesnt help the club. But if Evans does want out. Can't find a buyer. Admin is probably the next best option for him in real money terms. It save a him 5 or 6 m a year. Allows him to write off against the group in IE. And walk away with no real issue except he'd own all the clubs assets outside the stadium. He wouldn't be as successful as he is if he hasn't already done those numbers to see the implications | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:24 - Apr 1 with 2960 views | ElderGrizzly |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:22 - Apr 1 by rosseden |
It doesnt help the club. But if Evans does want out. Can't find a buyer. Admin is probably the next best option for him in real money terms. It save a him 5 or 6 m a year. Allows him to write off against the group in IE. And walk away with no real issue except he'd own all the clubs assets outside the stadium. He wouldn't be as successful as he is if he hasn't already done those numbers to see the implications |
That isn't how football administration works... |  | | |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:32 - Apr 1 with 2940 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:24 - Apr 1 by ElderGrizzly |
That isn't how football administration works... |
So if he has shifted the assets to other businesses in the group. How can other businesses be dragged into a different companies legal process? I get they can impose points and other penalties on the company in administration, But unsure as to how general business practice doesn't happen in football. It's just another Ltd company after all? No? | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 00:25 - Apr 2 with 2852 views | factual_blue |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:22 - Apr 1 by rosseden |
It doesnt help the club. But if Evans does want out. Can't find a buyer. Admin is probably the next best option for him in real money terms. It save a him 5 or 6 m a year. Allows him to write off against the group in IE. And walk away with no real issue except he'd own all the clubs assets outside the stadium. He wouldn't be as successful as he is if he hasn't already done those numbers to see the implications |
He'd also own the stadium, as he does now. What he doesn't own is the land on which it stands. I still don't see how he -or anybody else - benefits from that course of action. [Post edited 2 Apr 2017 0:28]
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 00:35 - Apr 2 with 2820 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 00:25 - Apr 2 by factual_blue |
He'd also own the stadium, as he does now. What he doesn't own is the land on which it stands. I still don't see how he -or anybody else - benefits from that course of action. [Post edited 2 Apr 2017 0:28]
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If you spend enough time you can model all the eventualities. He will have people doing it. Albeit on a smaller scale when I have done similar, debt write down if you have capital gains to offset can be more valuable than selling bad debt or writing it off. It's mostly wooden dollars but it could well happen if he takes a selfish viewpoint | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 07:10 - Apr 2 with 2679 views | sparks |
How and why would administration happen with the debt owed to the owner? |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 07:41 - Apr 2 with 2630 views | Reuser_is_God |
You have to spend money to go into admin |  |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:09 - Apr 2 with 2563 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 07:10 - Apr 2 by sparks |
How and why would administration happen with the debt owed to the owner? |
The debt is intercompang loans. Which you can write off against capital gains if they are a loss. I totally get it most likely isn't a preferred option. But it definitely is an option which could make sense he considers at some point when he wants to sell, and can't get anything for what is essentially toxic debt and a failing brand | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:10 - Apr 2 with 2559 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 07:41 - Apr 2 by Reuser_is_God |
You have to spend money to go into admin |
I know. But not as much as he currently spends, and certainly not for so long either. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:12 - Apr 2 with 2554 views | ElderGrizzly |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:09 - Apr 2 by rosseden |
The debt is intercompang loans. Which you can write off against capital gains if they are a loss. I totally get it most likely isn't a preferred option. But it definitely is an option which could make sense he considers at some point when he wants to sell, and can't get anything for what is essentially toxic debt and a failing brand |
Brighton are funded in exactly the same way and their owner is going to write off debts in 2023 i believe. Is he going to do that via administration? | | | |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:15 - Apr 2 with 2546 views | Superfrans |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 23:22 - Apr 1 by rosseden |
It doesnt help the club. But if Evans does want out. Can't find a buyer. Admin is probably the next best option for him in real money terms. It save a him 5 or 6 m a year. Allows him to write off against the group in IE. And walk away with no real issue except he'd own all the clubs assets outside the stadium. He wouldn't be as successful as he is if he hasn't already done those numbers to see the implications |
Christ. What an idiotic plan. He would have ruled out that plan faster than you could remember your own name,
If he wants out, his worst scenario is that he sells the club for a song and wipes out all of the debt.
An alternative would be selling the club and only wiping out a portion of (or none of) it.
Either way he potentially walks away with £10/£15m, but more likely much more than that, |  |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:16 - Apr 2 with 2540 views | sparks |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:09 - Apr 2 by rosseden |
The debt is intercompang loans. Which you can write off against capital gains if they are a loss. I totally get it most likely isn't a preferred option. But it definitely is an option which could make sense he considers at some point when he wants to sell, and can't get anything for what is essentially toxic debt and a failing brand |
Firstly, I believe you to be mistaken in that regard. These companies are connected.
Secondly, what does that have to do with administration? If he wishes to cease trading, he can liquidate in the usual way and would be most unlikely to put that in third party hands. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:17 - Apr 2 with 2531 views | Reuser_is_God |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:10 - Apr 2 by rosseden |
I know. But not as much as he currently spends, and certainly not for so long either. |
You will never go into admin when your net spends is as big as ours. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:19 - Apr 2 with 2522 views | ElderGrizzly |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:16 - Apr 2 by sparks |
Firstly, I believe you to be mistaken in that regard. These companies are connected.
Secondly, what does that have to do with administration? If he wishes to cease trading, he can liquidate in the usual way and would be most unlikely to put that in third party hands. |
I'd assumed rosseden was drunk in his posts last night, but clearly not the case. Unless he's still drunk this morning.
Nearly everything posted so far is incorrect on the financial situation at Town and the ways 'out' of it.
Administration is just not a realistic option unless Evans wants to walk away with nothing | | | |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:22 - Apr 2 with 2519 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:16 - Apr 2 by sparks |
Firstly, I believe you to be mistaken in that regard. These companies are connected.
Secondly, what does that have to do with administration? If he wishes to cease trading, he can liquidate in the usual way and would be most unlikely to put that in third party hands. |
Personally that's what I would do if it got too bad. But I'm not sure I even want to suggest it. For me as with Bolton and a number of other clubs. Even when debt is only to the owner. They still use administration as the potential mop up tool. So to think it couldn't happen I think is risky. I agree it's unlikely. But I would suggest someone who makes a lot of his money selling war strategy and infrastructure plans probably doesn't really care what people think about him and actually peeing him off could be a far worse end game for the club that hoping he just gets bored and walks. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:28 - Apr 2 with 2481 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:19 - Apr 2 by ElderGrizzly |
I'd assumed rosseden was drunk in his posts last night, but clearly not the case. Unless he's still drunk this morning.
Nearly everything posted so far is incorrect on the financial situation at Town and the ways 'out' of it.
Administration is just not a realistic option unless Evans wants to walk away with nothing |
My point is that. He can easily afford to walk away with nothing. He can most likely also recover a substantial sum through good accounting. If a few thousand people were singing abuse at me when I put in 50m of my own money into a business. And I was in a certain frame of mind. Why not stick two fingers up an them and give them what they continually ask for and 'walk away' which could well end up in admin. I don't disagree with most thing you've all posted. But the amount of people who can't see that someone who is a tax exile with huge worth wants to bring his kids to football games where they get abuse sang at them. Could very easily go either way. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:29 - Apr 2 with 2475 views | sparks |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:22 - Apr 2 by rosseden |
Personally that's what I would do if it got too bad. But I'm not sure I even want to suggest it. For me as with Bolton and a number of other clubs. Even when debt is only to the owner. They still use administration as the potential mop up tool. So to think it couldn't happen I think is risky. I agree it's unlikely. But I would suggest someone who makes a lot of his money selling war strategy and infrastructure plans probably doesn't really care what people think about him and actually peeing him off could be a far worse end game for the club that hoping he just gets bored and walks. |
I dont think you understand companies or insolvency. Administration is an insolvency solution which puts all the power in the hands of a third party administrator.
It makes no financial or practical sense whatsoever. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:43 - Apr 2 with 2438 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:29 - Apr 2 by sparks |
I dont think you understand companies or insolvency. Administration is an insolvency solution which puts all the power in the hands of a third party administrator.
It makes no financial or practical sense whatsoever. |
That's interesting. I have a number of businesses and also work for one of the worlds largest long term investment companies. . I have just signed leases on four new premesis funded through capital gains recovery from a liquidated business which we only liquidated as the landlord in one of our premesis was being an arse. So having been told I 'couldn't just walk away' I liquidated, cashed in a number of assets which had a substantial return and capital gains bill attached, and ended up, net net. Better off. But thanks anyway. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:46 - Apr 2 with 2429 views | Superfrans |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:28 - Apr 2 by rosseden |
My point is that. He can easily afford to walk away with nothing. He can most likely also recover a substantial sum through good accounting. If a few thousand people were singing abuse at me when I put in 50m of my own money into a business. And I was in a certain frame of mind. Why not stick two fingers up an them and give them what they continually ask for and 'walk away' which could well end up in admin. I don't disagree with most thing you've all posted. But the amount of people who can't see that someone who is a tax exile with huge worth wants to bring his kids to football games where they get abuse sang at them. Could very easily go either way. |
multi billionaires don't knowingly, willingly walk away from millions of pounds in assets - especially when there is an exit which offers an alternative.
If you think logically about the situation, you'll realise that walking away with nothing makes no sense whatsoever.
We know there are consortiums who are willing to invest in a football club, with the hope of cashing in in the Premier League. The question is the matter of price - what are they willing to pay.
Knowing that, Evans options can be summarised by two extremes:
>> He waives the debt, which enables him to sell it at a reasonable price - the buyer is then taking on a club which, while running at ongoing annual loss (which anyone looking to buy a football club would expect in any case) is free of debt.
>> He requires a payment to compensate for the money he is owed by the club before selling/handing over ownership of the club. In practical terms, the level of cash changing hands would most likely be similar to the above. It would simply be structured in a different way.
There are plenty of variations between the two options above, of course - plus additional options, such as an override for Evans if we are promoted in the next X years, a share of income from any player sales in the next X years etc etc.
But it all adds up to the same picture - Evans won't give the club away, however much debt it has. [Post edited 2 Apr 2017 9:47]
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:49 - Apr 2 with 2409 views | MJallday |
well if you went into admin after the season finished, i dont see how they can retrospectively dock you points - if that helps |  |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:51 - Apr 2 with 2403 views | rosseden |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:46 - Apr 2 by Superfrans |
multi billionaires don't knowingly, willingly walk away from millions of pounds in assets - especially when there is an exit which offers an alternative.
If you think logically about the situation, you'll realise that walking away with nothing makes no sense whatsoever.
We know there are consortiums who are willing to invest in a football club, with the hope of cashing in in the Premier League. The question is the matter of price - what are they willing to pay.
Knowing that, Evans options can be summarised by two extremes:
>> He waives the debt, which enables him to sell it at a reasonable price - the buyer is then taking on a club which, while running at ongoing annual loss (which anyone looking to buy a football club would expect in any case) is free of debt.
>> He requires a payment to compensate for the money he is owed by the club before selling/handing over ownership of the club. In practical terms, the level of cash changing hands would most likely be similar to the above. It would simply be structured in a different way.
There are plenty of variations between the two options above, of course - plus additional options, such as an override for Evans if we are promoted in the next X years, a share of income from any player sales in the next X years etc etc.
But it all adds up to the same picture - Evans won't give the club away, however much debt it has. [Post edited 2 Apr 2017 9:47]
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I know. i get it. As do you. I know you're one of the few people on here that Iover the years I have usually been supporting when trying to explain how this could all go for ME. However. It's not that which I'm saying. If people abuse the guy where he gets to the point he can't bring his kids. He isn't enjoying it. He doesn't want to come. Why spend 5m a year for the privalige. People want him to walk away. So walk away. If there's no buyer. He could easily afford to just say sod it. And recover a decent amount anyway. Not saying it's likely. Not saying he wants to. But he could afford to if he was bored with it. | |
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| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:51 - Apr 2 with 2399 views | sparks |
| IF we went into administration when do the points get deducted? on 09:43 - Apr 2 by rosseden |
That's interesting. I have a number of businesses and also work for one of the worlds largest long term investment companies. . I have just signed leases on four new premesis funded through capital gains recovery from a liquidated business which we only liquidated as the landlord in one of our premesis was being an arse. So having been told I 'couldn't just walk away' I liquidated, cashed in a number of assets which had a substantial return and capital gains bill attached, and ended up, net net. Better off. But thanks anyway. |
And yet you appear oblivious to the very obvious reasons why there is no benefit whatsoever for administration to happen. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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