| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? 12:59 - May 25 with 18775 views | itfcjoe |
I hear all this talk about Mick not giving youngsters a chance, and it seems too many posters aren't looking at the league as a whole. So I have tried to....
All stats are minutes on the pitch in the league only, and all ages are at today's date
U20 players
Barnsley - 6,750 minutes (5,063 by loanees)
Nottingham Forest - 5,185 minutes
Bristol City - 3,844 minutes (3,425 by loanees)
Birmingham - 3,680 minutes (1,007 by loanees)
Huddersfield - 3,513 minutes (2,310 by loanees)
Ipswich - 3,399 minutes
So only 5 clubs have players U20 getting more game time than at Portman Road, and only 1 club (Forest) has more game time given to U20 players that aren't on loan at the club.
Players aged 21-22
Preston North End - 8,412 minutes (682 by loanees)
Forest - 8,129 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Reading - 6,811 minutes
Leeds - 5,854 minutes (1,284 by loanees)
Ipswich - 5,465 minutes (295 by loanees)
So only 4 teams have given more minutes to 21 and 22 year olds, and if you take loan players out of it we move to 4th
Overall - all players U22
Forest - 13,314 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Barnsley - 10,573 minutes (7,201 by loanees)
Ipswich - 8,864 minutes (295 by loanees)
So overall only 2 clubs are given youngsters more game time than us, and 1 of them is mostly using loanees.
The reality is that Notingham Forest are the only side who are getting more minutes out of young players than we are at all ages, when you take out loan players - other than them we are right up there in every category.
For the purpose of this exercise our young players are Dozzell, Emmanuel, Kenlock, Bishop (U20) and Grant, Digby, Webster and Ward (U22) - so a mixture of academy products and signings, but most importantly nearly all of them are tied down for at tleast the next couple of years.
Mick has many faults, but the stats show it is unfair to accuse him of not giving youngsters game time.
 [Post edited 25 May 2017 13:02]
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:02 - May 25 with 5792 views | Kieran_Knows |
You should know by now Joe, that facts have no place on this forum....
Joking aside, thanks for posting that. |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:08 - May 25 with 5770 views | Luk38644 |
Good thread Joe.
I just hope Mick is given the funds by Evans so that he can add the necessary experience and quality around those young players. |  | | |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:09 - May 25 with 5762 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Good work Joe
I shall be using the thread as future reference when I next read 'mick couldn't give two f**ks about the youngsters and they never get the chance anyway' |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:10 - May 25 with 5748 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:08 - May 25 by Luk38644 |
Good thread Joe.
I just hope Mick is given the funds by Evans so that he can add the necessary experience and quality around those young players. |
Don't hold your breathe buh | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:16 - May 25 with 5714 views | Bluefish |
Best post on this board in a very long time |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:17 - May 25 with 5709 views | Reuser_is_God |
Very good analysis.
I'm not a McCarthy fan but I've always felt the accusations that he doesn't give youngsters game time is wide of the mark, this proves that. |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:20 - May 25 with 5686 views | textbackup |
Can we see the only table that matters now please, the final league table |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:21 - May 25 with 5684 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Yeah, but he's only played all those players because he was forced to
Or something like that
Seriously though good stats - I always thought the youth comments were a bit OTT but would never have thought we were that high by comparison, so very interesting |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:21 - May 25 with 5677 views | Guthrum |
Great bit of stat work! |  |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:27 - May 25 with 5586 views | Bluefish |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:20 - May 25 by textbackup |
Can we see the only table that matters now please, the final league table |
On that basis would you be happy to give Douglas another year and to play instead on Dozzell if it means that we finish higher in the table? When we doing ok ish mid season you were saying he must go because he doesn't play youths and results aren't important | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:31 - May 25 with 5498 views | textbackup |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:27 - May 25 by Bluefish |
On that basis would you be happy to give Douglas another year and to play instead on Dozzell if it means that we finish higher in the table? When we doing ok ish mid season you were saying he must go because he doesn't play youths and results aren't important |
I've never once said that, I'd happily finish lower if we had the kids in and played with some attacking purpose. But what we see consistently is 'we stop them first' | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:34 - May 25 with 5444 views | Bluefish |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:31 - May 25 by textbackup |
I've never once said that, I'd happily finish lower if we had the kids in and played with some attacking purpose. But what we see consistently is 'we stop them first' |
What is most/least important
Good football
League table
Playing kids | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:34 - May 25 with 5447 views | Ftnfwest |
contract extension... I think that criticism is aimed at our own produced youngsters rather than players purchased (eg. ward and webster). The clubs own declared policy is to spend what money we do have on promising young players from elsewhere so he's hardly going to do that and then not play them. I just find his treatment of dozzell slightly peculiar and a bit 'all or nothing' - in other words he'll completely ignore him for ages and then, when we're going through a bit of a rough patch throw him in from the start and effectively say i told you so when he's not MOM, after which he's dispatched. The one occasion in particular when he was brought on as a sub against bristol he did really well so i'm just a bit surprised that wasn't repeated too much. |  | | |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:36 - May 25 with 5420 views | itfcjoe |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:17 - May 25 by Reuser_is_God |
Very good analysis.
I'm not a McCarthy fan but I've always felt the accusations that he doesn't give youngsters game time is wide of the mark, this proves that. |
You can always play more youngsters, it's the easiest thing for a fan to say but he is given youngsters a lot of game time. Ben Morris went to Woking and couldn't get a game yet fans were clamoring for him to play here.
So few players are getting through at the moment, only 24 players in the whole league aged 22 or under played the equivalent of 20 games (including Ward and Webster), and 4 of them were on loan from PL clubs.
Only 6 players played the equivalent of 30 games (including Ward), and half of them were PL loanees | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:39 - May 25 with 5390 views | itfcjoe |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:21 - May 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Yeah, but he's only played all those players because he was forced to
Or something like that
Seriously though good stats - I always thought the youth comments were a bit OTT but would never have thought we were that high by comparison, so very interesting |
I'm amazed at how bad some of the teams were, because we don't have a particularly young squad - despite being up there it is only the equivalent of having 2.2 U22s on the pitch at the same time.....Ajax had 6 in the starting XI for the Europa League Final last night | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:41 - May 25 with 5369 views | itfcjoe |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:34 - May 25 by Ftnfwest |
contract extension... I think that criticism is aimed at our own produced youngsters rather than players purchased (eg. ward and webster). The clubs own declared policy is to spend what money we do have on promising young players from elsewhere so he's hardly going to do that and then not play them. I just find his treatment of dozzell slightly peculiar and a bit 'all or nothing' - in other words he'll completely ignore him for ages and then, when we're going through a bit of a rough patch throw him in from the start and effectively say i told you so when he's not MOM, after which he's dispatched. The one occasion in particular when he was brought on as a sub against bristol he did really well so i'm just a bit surprised that wasn't repeated too much. |
There were only 2 teenagers who played more minutes than Dozzell this year in the league - Sessegnon at Fulham and Brereton at Forest. | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:42 - May 25 with 5346 views | textbackup |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:34 - May 25 by Bluefish |
What is most/least important
Good football
League table
Playing kids |
Good football
Kids playing
League table
Seeing MM has played young lads is great, but playing them in his dogsht style of football isn't. | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:42 - May 25 with 5338 views | Ftnfwest |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:41 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
There were only 2 teenagers who played more minutes than Dozzell this year in the league - Sessegnon at Fulham and Brereton at Forest. |
i wouldn't be surprised if he started more games than them either | | | |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:44 - May 25 with 5316 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:39 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I'm amazed at how bad some of the teams were, because we don't have a particularly young squad - despite being up there it is only the equivalent of having 2.2 U22s on the pitch at the same time.....Ajax had 6 in the starting XI for the Europa League Final last night |
It's even worse in the PL
Think I read somewhere the other day that if you take Rashford and Davies out of the equation, the number of minutes for players under 21 averaged less than 90 per game. 3 or 4 clubs didn't give a youngster a single minute | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:49 - May 25 with 5255 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:42 - May 25 by textbackup |
Good football
Kids playing
League table
Seeing MM has played young lads is great, but playing them in his dogsht style of football isn't. |
You put youngsters ahead of position, but when we were in the playoffs 2 years ago playing no kids and the same style of football, you were happy. Now we're playing youngster, still the same style of football and we're lower in the league and you're not
I think it's easy to say things are more important than the position in the table, but when it boils down to it being competitive in the league makes most of the other concerns go away
(You'll probably take this as a dig but it genuinely isn't) | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:52 - May 25 with 5217 views | itfcjoe |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:44 - May 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It's even worse in the PL
Think I read somewhere the other day that if you take Rashford and Davies out of the equation, the number of minutes for players under 21 averaged less than 90 per game. 3 or 4 clubs didn't give a youngster a single minute |
It's pathetic really - Chelsea beat this Ajax side in the Youth league but the players don't get an opportunity.
Chelsea actually had more minutes for their U20 players than any Championship side in this league (I've worded that badly but it should make sense!).....Abraham, Izzy Brown, Kasey Palmer and Tomori combined for 7,616 minutes | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:52 - May 25 with 5215 views | SW6Tractor |
Excellent post, thanks for sharing. McCarthy has shown he will play 'the youth' if they're good enough, but if they fall behind or aren't quite up to the standard (Bishop, Dozzell) he'll push them to get better to get back in the side.
Appreciate fans enthusiasm to get them playing, but there is a fine balance and Ajax we are not!
They have a saying in the NFL: "Son, your potential can get me fired" |  | | |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:53 - May 25 with 5199 views | Sarge |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:49 - May 25 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
You put youngsters ahead of position, but when we were in the playoffs 2 years ago playing no kids and the same style of football, you were happy. Now we're playing youngster, still the same style of football and we're lower in the league and you're not
I think it's easy to say things are more important than the position in the table, but when it boils down to it being competitive in the league makes most of the other concerns go away
(You'll probably take this as a dig but it genuinely isn't) |
On the point of the style of football, 2 years ago it worked, now it doesn't and rather than try something else we keep flogging the dead horse. |  | | |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:53 - May 25 with 5193 views | Bluefish |
| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:42 - May 25 by textbackup |
Good football
Kids playing
League table
Seeing MM has played young lads is great, but playing them in his dogsht style of football isn't. |
I am in agreement with you. I accept us being an average championship team and just want to feel we are doing something right in terms of football and development.
Your comment made me ask the question though
"Can we see the only table that matters now please, the final league table" | |
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| Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? on 13:55 - May 25 with 5177 views | homer_123 |
Excellent post - the devil is in the detail.
I wonder what % of those minutes are back to back games as opposed to sub minutes coming off the bench and also how that fits with youth being used as a 1st resort as opposed to cover etc. |  |
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