| The Real Election Results 20:48 - Jun 9 with 3337 views | Kropotkin123 |
For the vast majority of my voting life, I have lived in areas of conservative majorities, and I have never agreed with a conservative manifesto. I know others like me simply don't vote because they believe casting their vote is pointless. Many in my situation feel that we have never been given a vote in this country, as it is not worth the same as other peoples.
Liberal Democrats were adjudged by some to be consigned to the pages of history, despite getting 2.4m votes. This is because, at the time of writing, they have got a mere 12 seats. However they have 238% more votes than the SNP, who got 35 seats, which is 292% greater than the LD's 12. This is a percentage difference between representation and voting of 530%.
This is one of the most extreme examples. It only took 28,502 votes to elect an SNP MP. whereas it took 197,648 votes to elect a LD MP. A less extreme, but equally important difference in this election was the difference between the Conservatives and Labour. It took 42,979 votes to elect a CON MP and 49,141 votes to elect a LAB MP.
At the time of writing, the Conservatives have 318 seats and Labour have 262. This is a difference of 56 seats. In reality, this is not reflective of the "will of the public". If we use the figure of 42,927 votes to elect a CON MP, and apply that to all other parties, Labour attain 300 votes. A new difference of 18 seats, which is much more representative of the population's disunity at this election.
The Liberal Democrats get 55 seats. The Green Party are up to 12 seats and UKIP still have 14 seats. The full results are here.
CON - 318
LAB - 300
LD - 55
SNP - 23
UKIP - 14
GRN - 12
DUP - 7
SF - 6
PC - 4
What this shows is that this election was much closer than we are led to believe. Theresa May running the country with the DUP should be a minority government.
People argue that a more representative system avoids hung parliaments and is stronger for the country. I say, like I do after every election, that this is easy for you to say this, when your votes counts for something.
*Note, figures have now been amended to include the last declared seat. [Post edited 9 Jun 2017 23:36]
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| The Real Election Results on 07:16 - Jun 10 with 3232 views | Mullet |
The PR graph on this link is pretty damning. Not only does it put a fag paper between the two main parties but it actually gives more to the LD's who could then have formed a coalition with it.
Also it gives UKIP something and the Greens. I don't know, but it looks like the most clear argument for PR ever.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-general-election-in-five-g Scroll down a fair way. |  |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:23 - Jun 10 with 3224 views | Steve_M |
Yeah, but without First Past the Post we get weak, divided Government. Oh....
At the moment, the 2015 Tory majority is very much the outlier of the last decade. Although whether this week's two party vote will be typical of the future remains to be seen. Neither main party will support PR but it's clear that neither of them really represents the broad swathe of the country that they used to. |  |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:45 - Jun 10 with 3188 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Nice analysis but to make the obvious point - in a PR system people would vote differently, so the make up would change
In reality I would expect an increase in votes for the smaller parties, as people would no longer see this as a wasted vote. Also there would be no tactical voting, which would probably increase the Conservative lead a bit, although difficult to say for certain at what level this is carried out |  |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:47 - Jun 10 with 3177 views | Mullet |
| The Real Election Results on 07:45 - Jun 10 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Nice analysis but to make the obvious point - in a PR system people would vote differently, so the make up would change
In reality I would expect an increase in votes for the smaller parties, as people would no longer see this as a wasted vote. Also there would be no tactical voting, which would probably increase the Conservative lead a bit, although difficult to say for certain at what level this is carried out |
Surely the Tory vote would be splintered off into UKIP? | |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:48 - Jun 10 with 3174 views | StokieBlue |
| The Real Election Results on 07:16 - Jun 10 by Mullet |
The PR graph on this link is pretty damning. Not only does it put a fag paper between the two main parties but it actually gives more to the LD's who could then have formed a coalition with it.
Also it gives UKIP something and the Greens. I don't know, but it looks like the most clear argument for PR ever.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-general-election-in-five-g Scroll down a fair way. |
PR would be excellent, just remember it doesn't always produce nice results. UKIP would have had 110 seats I believe after the last election?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've not looked it up again this morning.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:52 - Jun 10 with 3156 views | Mullet |
| The Real Election Results on 07:48 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue |
PR would be excellent, just remember it doesn't always produce nice results. UKIP would have had 110 seats I believe after the last election?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've not looked it up again this morning.
SB |
I don't have a problem with UKIP getting seats. Them actually getting a chance to "govern" in any sort of capacity would definitely kill them off.
You'll never destroy the ideologies which are cobbled together to form their voter base after all. | |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:53 - Jun 10 with 3153 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| The Real Election Results on 07:47 - Jun 10 by Mullet |
Surely the Tory vote would be splintered off into UKIP? |
Possibly but as this election has showed the same would apply to other parties
The tactical voting point is based around an assumption that there would have been some anti-Tory voting in some areas, where Lib Dem voters would have voted Labour and vice versa in some key constituencies. Whether this actually happened in any great numbers is debatable | |
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| The Real Election Results on 07:56 - Jun 10 with 3146 views | StokieBlue |
| The Real Election Results on 07:52 - Jun 10 by Mullet |
I don't have a problem with UKIP getting seats. Them actually getting a chance to "govern" in any sort of capacity would definitely kill them off.
You'll never destroy the ideologies which are cobbled together to form their voter base after all. |
That is a fair point.
100 seats would have been enough to really push through things though on Brexit as a large voting block.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The Real Election Results on 08:01 - Jun 10 with 3127 views | Mullet |
| The Real Election Results on 07:53 - Jun 10 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Possibly but as this election has showed the same would apply to other parties
The tactical voting point is based around an assumption that there would have been some anti-Tory voting in some areas, where Lib Dem voters would have voted Labour and vice versa in some key constituencies. Whether this actually happened in any great numbers is debatable |
That's the problem. I've talked to several people who voted because they support a party and will never change on either side, some who held their nose and switched to Labour to try and oust the usual Tory majority, some who just love Jez etc.
However that lazy Tory lie of UKIP voters all being thick northern Labour voters seems to finally hold no weight does it? This election shows that the destruction of UKIP has driven up total Blue votes too and the shifts within seats also suggests that Brexit is not a class based ideology or a regional one when its convenient. | |
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| The Real Election Results on 08:26 - Jun 10 with 3093 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| The Real Election Results on 08:01 - Jun 10 by Mullet |
That's the problem. I've talked to several people who voted because they support a party and will never change on either side, some who held their nose and switched to Labour to try and oust the usual Tory majority, some who just love Jez etc.
However that lazy Tory lie of UKIP voters all being thick northern Labour voters seems to finally hold no weight does it? This election shows that the destruction of UKIP has driven up total Blue votes too and the shifts within seats also suggests that Brexit is not a class based ideology or a regional one when its convenient. |
I thought the assumption before this option was that the UKIP vote would shift to the Conservatives, but results seem to show that whilst this was the case for some, plenty also shifted to Labour? | |
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| The Real Election Results on 08:32 - Jun 10 with 3082 views | Mullet |
| The Real Election Results on 08:26 - Jun 10 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I thought the assumption before this option was that the UKIP vote would shift to the Conservatives, but results seem to show that whilst this was the case for some, plenty also shifted to Labour? |
I don't think you can say for sure without tracking down all previous UKIP voters and working out which were protest votes, genuine votes and where they went this time and why.
Hence my annoyance with the smear that is often put about. A lot of Tory hypocrisy is coming home to roost this weekend, after the way previous Labour iterations behaved and got slaughtered for it - seems May and her associates should be on the hook for a long time. Especially after the Brexiteers slinked off easy.
My one hope is that if we still can and intend to leave they can no longer push for this deluded "hard Brexit" nonsense. As one Tory put it last night, we can't and shouldn't be marching into Europe like they are our enemies. | |
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| The Real Election Results on 10:14 - Jun 10 with 3016 views | J2BLUE |
| The Real Election Results on 07:45 - Jun 10 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Nice analysis but to make the obvious point - in a PR system people would vote differently, so the make up would change
In reality I would expect an increase in votes for the smaller parties, as people would no longer see this as a wasted vote. Also there would be no tactical voting, which would probably increase the Conservative lead a bit, although difficult to say for certain at what level this is carried out |
Agreed, I might have gone green with PR. |  |
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| The Real Election Results on 10:18 - Jun 10 with 3008 views | manchego |
| The Real Election Results on 07:48 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue |
PR would be excellent, just remember it doesn't always produce nice results. UKIP would have had 110 seats I believe after the last election?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've not looked it up again this morning.
SB |
I don't think it's a good idea to pretend they are not there just because our voting system doesn't represent them in Parliament. |  | | |
| The Real Election Results on 12:37 - Jun 10 with 2946 views | J2BLUE |
| The Real Election Results on 10:18 - Jun 10 by manchego |
I don't think it's a good idea to pretend they are not there just because our voting system doesn't represent them in Parliament. |
Perhaps if they had some representation within parliament there wouldn't have been a leave vote for Brexit? Just throwing it out there. Might be completely wrong. [Post edited 10 Jun 2017 12:37]
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| The Real Election Results on 12:55 - Jun 10 with 2913 views | bluelagos |
| The Real Election Results on 12:37 - Jun 10 by J2BLUE |
Perhaps if they had some representation within parliament there wouldn't have been a leave vote for Brexit? Just throwing it out there. Might be completely wrong. [Post edited 10 Jun 2017 12:37]
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Spot on. Leave was partly down to disillusioned voters who felt left behind by Westminster politics.
And even if (like me) you don't like Ukip, their voters should still be fairly represented. |  |
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