| Fake train news on 08:20 - Jun 13 with 2360 views | No9 |
Disgusting; commuter trains on an Intercity run.
Look at the standing areas-
& we all know what happens when you have open plan carriges with centre sliding doors = overcrowding
In the case of Abillio this overcrowding is being designed into the new trains
But this is what happens when you get a substandard Transport Secretary |  | |  |
| Fake train news on 08:33 - Jun 13 with 2338 views | Radlett_blue |
| Fake train news on 08:20 - Jun 13 by No9 |
Disgusting; commuter trains on an Intercity run.
Look at the standing areas-
& we all know what happens when you have open plan carriges with centre sliding doors = overcrowding
In the case of Abillio this overcrowding is being designed into the new trains
But this is what happens when you get a substandard Transport Secretary |
Agree with all your points, except that it's the whole privatisation model that's an issue, not Chris Grayling. |  |
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| Fake train news on 09:12 - Jun 13 with 2308 views | uefacup81 |
| Fake train news on 08:20 - Jun 13 by No9 |
Disgusting; commuter trains on an Intercity run.
Look at the standing areas-
& we all know what happens when you have open plan carriges with centre sliding doors = overcrowding
In the case of Abillio this overcrowding is being designed into the new trains
But this is what happens when you get a substandard Transport Secretary |
The thing with these trains is that they're very much following a more European specification.
If you look on the continent at the kinds of trains that are used for journeys around the length of the Norwich-London run (under 2hrs) you'll find that they follow this sort of model exactly.
It's the best design (in a Multiple Unit) for fitting in everything that is lost with the loss of the Guard's van, as well as making sure that the trains are accessible.
Those in the west of the county, who commute from Cambridge, will already be experiencing 'commuter trains on an intercity route' with the use of Class 379 Stansted Express units, and I have to say that they work well and are extremely comfortable.
From an objective point of view, the use of a 'proper' intercity train on a line as short as the GEML is outdated and a hangover from the days of British Rail where the loco-and-coaches model was the only option. |  |
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| Fake train news on 09:22 - Jun 13 with 2292 views | Radlett_blue |
| Fake train news on 09:12 - Jun 13 by uefacup81 |
The thing with these trains is that they're very much following a more European specification.
If you look on the continent at the kinds of trains that are used for journeys around the length of the Norwich-London run (under 2hrs) you'll find that they follow this sort of model exactly.
It's the best design (in a Multiple Unit) for fitting in everything that is lost with the loss of the Guard's van, as well as making sure that the trains are accessible.
Those in the west of the county, who commute from Cambridge, will already be experiencing 'commuter trains on an intercity route' with the use of Class 379 Stansted Express units, and I have to say that they work well and are extremely comfortable.
From an objective point of view, the use of a 'proper' intercity train on a line as short as the GEML is outdated and a hangover from the days of British Rail where the loco-and-coaches model was the only option. |
Hmm..interesting.
My local operator of the dreaded Thameslink franchise is doing the same as many, in procuring rolling stock which has fewer seats, so that they can cram as many people in standing. On a short journey, which I would say is <30 minutes, I think that is reasonable as commuter lines are running at full capacity. The new German built rolling stock is of decent quality, but it has been kitted out from Ikea, with small, hard, uncomfortable seats. | |
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| Fake train news on 10:15 - Jun 13 with 2262 views | No9 |
| Fake train news on 08:33 - Jun 13 by Radlett_blue |
Agree with all your points, except that it's the whole privatisation model that's an issue, not Chris Grayling. |
Chris Grayling issued the franchise to Abillio despite the fact they only had circa 34% satisfaction vote from the public.
Chris Grayling & his department agreed or even dictated the configuartion of the passenger areas - it's in the Francjise agreement on the DfT website | | | |
| Fake train news on 10:20 - Jun 13 with 2251 views | No9 |
| Fake train news on 09:12 - Jun 13 by uefacup81 |
The thing with these trains is that they're very much following a more European specification.
If you look on the continent at the kinds of trains that are used for journeys around the length of the Norwich-London run (under 2hrs) you'll find that they follow this sort of model exactly.
It's the best design (in a Multiple Unit) for fitting in everything that is lost with the loss of the Guard's van, as well as making sure that the trains are accessible.
Those in the west of the county, who commute from Cambridge, will already be experiencing 'commuter trains on an intercity route' with the use of Class 379 Stansted Express units, and I have to say that they work well and are extremely comfortable.
From an objective point of view, the use of a 'proper' intercity train on a line as short as the GEML is outdated and a hangover from the days of British Rail where the loco-and-coaches model was the only option. |
I have travellled on many European trains and the only intercity trains with this commuter ope plan areas in in Holland ( Abilio is Dutch) I would use Belgian trains where possible travelling in the Netherlands because they were more comfortable. I have not found these open plan design anywhere eslse on Intercity runs in Europe
The UK cross country trains are terrible and are disgracefully expensive
The Stanstead EXpress & Stanstead to Cambridge trains are dire with serious overcrowding a problem.
We still have to see the timetable but insider info suggest that although the Norwich in 90 may achieve this with additional stops the standard trains will exceed the current schedule by some margin.
The new trains have a 20 mph speed disadvantage over the current rolling sock | | | |
| Fake train news on 13:49 - Jun 13 with 2162 views | uefacup81 |
| Fake train news on 10:20 - Jun 13 by No9 |
I have travellled on many European trains and the only intercity trains with this commuter ope plan areas in in Holland ( Abilio is Dutch) I would use Belgian trains where possible travelling in the Netherlands because they were more comfortable. I have not found these open plan design anywhere eslse on Intercity runs in Europe
The UK cross country trains are terrible and are disgracefully expensive
The Stanstead EXpress & Stanstead to Cambridge trains are dire with serious overcrowding a problem.
We still have to see the timetable but insider info suggest that although the Norwich in 90 may achieve this with additional stops the standard trains will exceed the current schedule by some margin.
The new trains have a 20 mph speed disadvantage over the current rolling sock |
Respectfully I must disagree with you.
If you look at any trains on similar routes (under 120mins end to end) on the continent, you will see that they are (by and large) all of similar designs.
The Belgian trains in the Netherlands (as the description suggests) are trains designed for longer-distance international runs. If you look at the TGV in France, or the ICE in Germany, you will see that they all cover much longer distances than the GEML and are designed accordingly.
To be honest, you are letting the description of 'Intercity' cloud your judgement on what's appropriate. If you look at these shorter routes in Europe, the German ones are run by RB/RE (Regionalbahn/Regionalexpress) stock which is of almost exactly the same specification as the Stadler trains that are being ordered by Abellio. | |
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| Fake train news on 15:59 - Jun 13 with 2120 views | No9 |
| Fake train news on 13:49 - Jun 13 by uefacup81 |
Respectfully I must disagree with you.
If you look at any trains on similar routes (under 120mins end to end) on the continent, you will see that they are (by and large) all of similar designs.
The Belgian trains in the Netherlands (as the description suggests) are trains designed for longer-distance international runs. If you look at the TGV in France, or the ICE in Germany, you will see that they all cover much longer distances than the GEML and are designed accordingly.
To be honest, you are letting the description of 'Intercity' cloud your judgement on what's appropriate. If you look at these shorter routes in Europe, the German ones are run by RB/RE (Regionalbahn/Regionalexpress) stock which is of almost exactly the same specification as the Stadler trains that are being ordered by Abellio. |
I have never seen any trains other than deliver the milk & papers that do not have some form of door between the entry exit are and the seating area.
All Intercity trains are just that the others are feeder trains
This is common in the UK because there are no laws about over crowding - I checked with the DfT.
To let large numbers of people on to stand in the large areas sown on the Abillio site may be OK on a regional train doing 80 or so kph but on a mainline trains which are potentially doing 160 kph + standing in large numbers is not only overcrowding it is dangerous.
According to Abillio the UK Stadler 'Intercity ' rolling stock is specific to the UK only.
The only difference that can be seen from that Abillio have published is that the Stadler trains have two = two seating whereas the Bobmadier trains have 2 + 3 seating. I see very little difference fro what is being used now and is so much complained about other than the new trains should be more reliable however, given Abillois appalling maintenance record I wouldn't bet on that. | | | |
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| Fake train news on 17:26 - Jun 13 with 2089 views | uefacup81 |
| Fake train news on 15:59 - Jun 13 by No9 |
I have never seen any trains other than deliver the milk & papers that do not have some form of door between the entry exit are and the seating area.
All Intercity trains are just that the others are feeder trains
This is common in the UK because there are no laws about over crowding - I checked with the DfT.
To let large numbers of people on to stand in the large areas sown on the Abillio site may be OK on a regional train doing 80 or so kph but on a mainline trains which are potentially doing 160 kph + standing in large numbers is not only overcrowding it is dangerous.
According to Abillio the UK Stadler 'Intercity ' rolling stock is specific to the UK only.
The only difference that can be seen from that Abillio have published is that the Stadler trains have two = two seating whereas the Bobmadier trains have 2 + 3 seating. I see very little difference fro what is being used now and is so much complained about other than the new trains should be more reliable however, given Abillois appalling maintenance record I wouldn't bet on that. |
Whilst the direct specification of the train may be unique to Greater Anglia, the FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train/Flinker Leichter Innovativer Regional Treibzug) design is not.
The design is used in at least 19 countries worldwide, and is commonly used on Regional routes (the same sorts of routes as Norwich to London). Unfortunately the fact that a train travels between two cities as its termini does not make it an "Intercity" train in the sense of the definition.
The UK use of the term 'Intercity' referred to the sector under which the service was run in the old British Rail days. As I understand it, Greater Anglia now refers to such service as 'Mainline' services.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why you've got the concerns that you've got, but having spend many weekends spending 12+ hours on the regional trains of Germany in similar (or worse) rolling stock, I can vouch for the fact that the Stadler Flirt model is more than suitable for a two hour end-to-end journey.
(Edit to edit)
Also, looking at the pictures here ( https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/form/transforming-your-railway-with-new-trains ) it seems like the images you referred to at the start of the post might be the local FLIRT stock, as opposed to the Regional variant. [Post edited 13 Jun 2017 17:37]
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| Fake train news on 20:36 - Jun 13 with 2038 views | connorscontract |
| Fake train news on 17:26 - Jun 13 by uefacup81 |
Whilst the direct specification of the train may be unique to Greater Anglia, the FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train/Flinker Leichter Innovativer Regional Treibzug) design is not.
The design is used in at least 19 countries worldwide, and is commonly used on Regional routes (the same sorts of routes as Norwich to London). Unfortunately the fact that a train travels between two cities as its termini does not make it an "Intercity" train in the sense of the definition.
The UK use of the term 'Intercity' referred to the sector under which the service was run in the old British Rail days. As I understand it, Greater Anglia now refers to such service as 'Mainline' services.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why you've got the concerns that you've got, but having spend many weekends spending 12+ hours on the regional trains of Germany in similar (or worse) rolling stock, I can vouch for the fact that the Stadler Flirt model is more than suitable for a two hour end-to-end journey.
(Edit to edit)
Also, looking at the pictures here ( https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/form/transforming-your-railway-with-new-trains ) it seems like the images you referred to at the start of the post might be the local FLIRT stock, as opposed to the Regional variant. [Post edited 13 Jun 2017 17:37]
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If you ever find yourself on Mastermind, I reckon you might just have stumbled on your specialist subject. | | | |
| Fake train news on 20:52 - Jun 13 with 2030 views | uefacup81 |
| Fake train news on 20:36 - Jun 13 by connorscontract |
If you ever find yourself on Mastermind, I reckon you might just have stumbled on your specialist subject. |
Yup, you got me! Self-confessed rail-nerd!
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