| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market 09:48 - Jun 22 with 6138 views | Steve_M |
as a bulwark against Corbyn and McDonnell? The dreams of reducing regulation are gone after Grenfell so it's just the social contract parts of the EU they can get rid of now, all at political cost to them and the party.
http://www.politico.eu/article/battered-and-bruised-theresa-may-limps-into-enemy
A month ago the idea that Corbyn could make the Labour the largest party in Parliament was ridiculous, such is the weakness of the Tories that it isn't anymore. The Single Market rules do a good job of protecting the country from ultra-free market proponents on one side and McDonnell's Stalinist style planned-nostalgia on the other. |  |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:52 - Jun 22 with 5072 views | No9 |
Did you see BBC 2 at 21.00, last night?
I cannot see how the tories can stay united for much longer.
Mrs May is at the point where both sides are out for her - if she doesn't do what they (each side) wants. |  | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:53 - Jun 22 with 5064 views | hype313 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:52 - Jun 22 by No9 |
Did you see BBC 2 at 21.00, last night?
I cannot see how the tories can stay united for much longer.
Mrs May is at the point where both sides are out for her - if she doesn't do what they (each side) wants. |
She's a dead woman walking, which isn't an ideal situation for the country as a whole, especially approaching the most difficult discussions this country has faced for generations. |  |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:57 - Jun 22 with 5054 views | WD19 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:52 - Jun 22 by No9 |
Did you see BBC 2 at 21.00, last night?
I cannot see how the tories can stay united for much longer.
Mrs May is at the point where both sides are out for her - if she doesn't do what they (each side) wants. |
She is more valuable to both factions as a shared 'bogeywoman' currently.
And tbh honest someone is going to have to take the fall when the brexit negotiations 'fail'. I think everyone has decided she has earned that privilege. |  | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:59 - Jun 22 with 5050 views | No9 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:53 - Jun 22 by hype313 |
She's a dead woman walking, which isn't an ideal situation for the country as a whole, especially approaching the most difficult discussions this country has faced for generations. |
If the tories don't split the problem will exacerbate and the whole British Isles will suffer.
The internal fighting will go on and on until they cannot find a leader who wants to unite and they pick someone like Rees-Mogg who will take the party to the extreme right. The sensible ones will then have to break away | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 10:04 - Jun 22 with 5027 views | GeoffSentence |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:52 - Jun 22 by No9 |
Did you see BBC 2 at 21.00, last night?
I cannot see how the tories can stay united for much longer.
Mrs May is at the point where both sides are out for her - if she doesn't do what they (each side) wants. |
It was one of the funniest things I have watched in a while. That singing MP was like a real life version of David Brent, Anna Soubry talking about how much she loved Boris but wanted a proper grown up in charge of the party, the hubris of the Tory MPs and their expectation of a huge majority as the election was announced. It was all jolly good fun. |  |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:11 - Jun 22 with 4917 views | connorscontract |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:52 - Jun 22 by No9 |
Did you see BBC 2 at 21.00, last night?
I cannot see how the tories can stay united for much longer.
Mrs May is at the point where both sides are out for her - if she doesn't do what they (each side) wants. |
It was a really good documentary, wasn't it?
"Brexit means Brexit"
The story of the past year in British politics with behind the scenes footage and interviews with major players on both sides of the Referendum debate.
The General Election section was really eye-opening.
When you consider that it didn't even include the most rabid Brexiteer in the Tory party, the man who dresses like a Jimmy Savile tribute act, Philip Hollobone, you are right about just how divided they are and just how many have the knives out for May now that she has thrown away a majority. | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:16 - Jun 22 with 4901 views | giant_stow |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:53 - Jun 22 by hype313 |
She's a dead woman walking, which isn't an ideal situation for the country as a whole, especially approaching the most difficult discussions this country has faced for generations. |
I was greeted by polite and slightly pitying silence last time I made the following brilliant, genius, inspried suggestion, but...
Given there's no majority and May is a busted flush / incapable of leading by consensus, I suggest Caroline Lucas as PM or more accurately titled 'Lead Facilitator' with her job being to keep the coming debates civil and productive.
Edit: ok, i'll shut up about it. [Post edited 22 Jun 2017 12:26]
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:33 - Jun 22 with 4856 views | vilanovablue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:16 - Jun 22 by giant_stow |
I was greeted by polite and slightly pitying silence last time I made the following brilliant, genius, inspried suggestion, but...
Given there's no majority and May is a busted flush / incapable of leading by consensus, I suggest Caroline Lucas as PM or more accurately titled 'Lead Facilitator' with her job being to keep the coming debates civil and productive.
Edit: ok, i'll shut up about it. [Post edited 22 Jun 2017 12:26]
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I think a national coalition may not be a bad shout. We need to get through these negotiations with a united front. A coalition of this type may isolate the extreme views on both sides. Not convinced I'd choose Lucas but can't recommend anyone better |  | | |
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| The FARAGE moment on 12:36 - Jun 22 with 4852 views | unstableblue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:52 - Jun 22 by No9 |
Did you see BBC 2 at 21.00, last night?
I cannot see how the tories can stay united for much longer.
Mrs May is at the point where both sides are out for her - if she doesn't do what they (each side) wants. |
That 3-4mins of Farage peddling his little englander views for money at an end of the pier show, in an armchair, getting sozzle on a bottle of wine.... talking his simplistic notion of it all, just about summed up Brexit for me.
Awful.
I don't people to think of England and Britain as a nation of small minded Farages. |  |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:37 - Jun 22 with 4848 views | giant_stow |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:33 - Jun 22 by vilanovablue |
I think a national coalition may not be a bad shout. We need to get through these negotiations with a united front. A coalition of this type may isolate the extreme views on both sides. Not convinced I'd choose Lucas but can't recommend anyone better |
Thank you for humouring me!
I only suggest her as shes on her own with no power base and most MPs could surely agree to some degree on environmental issues. She comes as close to neutral as possible
Plus no one else really wants the job anyway as its a hiding to nothing - with her, no combacks to fear.
A nice mixed cabinet... hey presto - progress and sensible, pragmatic combined government issue by issue. | |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:51 - Jun 22 with 4816 views | StokieBlue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:33 - Jun 22 by vilanovablue |
I think a national coalition may not be a bad shout. We need to get through these negotiations with a united front. A coalition of this type may isolate the extreme views on both sides. Not convinced I'd choose Lucas but can't recommend anyone better |
How will it isolate the extreme views when those views are held by the leadership of the parties in question?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:52 - Jun 22 with 4810 views | giant_stow |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:51 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
How will it isolate the extreme views when those views are held by the leadership of the parties in question?
SB |
Hopefully the leaderships of each party would be sensible enough to not try and push extreme policies which could never be agreed to by the floating majority in the centre. | |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:55 - Jun 22 with 4804 views | WeWereZombies |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:51 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
How will it isolate the extreme views when those views are held by the leadership of the parties in question?
SB |
If the parties are as divided as we are led to believe then would it be too much of an issue if neither May or Corbyn (or any of their close allies) held cabinet posts? |  |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:56 - Jun 22 with 4799 views | m14_blue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 09:59 - Jun 22 by No9 |
If the tories don't split the problem will exacerbate and the whole British Isles will suffer.
The internal fighting will go on and on until they cannot find a leader who wants to unite and they pick someone like Rees-Mogg who will take the party to the extreme right. The sensible ones will then have to break away |
Could you not make a very similar point about the PLP though?
It's an inherent problem with our bipartisan system, inevitably the two huge parties will have a very wide range of views within their umbrella. | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:02 - Jun 22 with 4790 views | StokieBlue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:55 - Jun 22 by WeWereZombies |
If the parties are as divided as we are led to believe then would it be too much of an issue if neither May or Corbyn (or any of their close allies) held cabinet posts? |
So you are talking about ignoring the leaders of the two largest parties.
You honestly think that will work?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:09 - Jun 22 with 4766 views | No9 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:02 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
So you are talking about ignoring the leaders of the two largest parties.
You honestly think that will work?
SB |
The situation is serious. The only person I have heard speak about the EU with any remote idea of what it is about is Kier Starmer.
I perhaps should have been shocked at the lack of understanding Mr Davis & Mrs May possess about the EU which I guess is why Mr davis 'capitulated ' on Friday (not really reported until this week.
The fact that we have all known the negotiations have to take place under the jurisdiction of the ECJ because the other 27 say so and, it is their form of Law (different from the UK) should really lead us to consider the tory nominees are not fit for purpose.
I am not convinced Mr Corbyn wants to be involved which is why he has left this (sensibly) to Mr Starmer
On something as important as what we are now netering onto we need talent not tallens | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:16 - Jun 22 with 4748 views | WeWereZombies |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:02 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
So you are talking about ignoring the leaders of the two largest parties.
You honestly think that will work?
SB |
Not ignoring them, making the very obvious point to them that neither shows either sufficient leadership talent (statesmanship if you like) or political nous to concede issues for the greater good of the state. An appropriate demotion in both cases to emphasise the consequences of poor performance (perhaps that is a bit harsh in Corbyn's case given the galvanising effect he had on uniting opposition to May in the general election but that is all it was in the main).
Clearly it is very unlikely to happen but in the current circumstances I think it should. | |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:19 - Jun 22 with 4739 views | No9 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:16 - Jun 22 by WeWereZombies |
Not ignoring them, making the very obvious point to them that neither shows either sufficient leadership talent (statesmanship if you like) or political nous to concede issues for the greater good of the state. An appropriate demotion in both cases to emphasise the consequences of poor performance (perhaps that is a bit harsh in Corbyn's case given the galvanising effect he had on uniting opposition to May in the general election but that is all it was in the main).
Clearly it is very unlikely to happen but in the current circumstances I think it should. |
FIRST - resolve the serious split in the tory party.
Without doing that you will get absolutely nowhere as last nights BBC Doc @ 21.00 showed | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:25 - Jun 22 with 4724 views | WeWereZombies |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:19 - Jun 22 by No9 |
FIRST - resolve the serious split in the tory party.
Without doing that you will get absolutely nowhere as last nights BBC Doc @ 21.00 showed |
Why should that be my job? Haven't they got anyone to do it for themselves?
Seriously, the Labour Party have struggled along with a serious split for the last year and almost won an election (and will probably win the next one in a few months) so, given the indescribable level of daftness within much of the Tory party, would it not be best for them to have another twelve or so years out of power to learn the life lessons and cull the deadwood that enabled them to, just and with the help of the Lib Dems, topple Brown. | |
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:38 - Jun 22 with 4709 views | Freddies_Ears |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:37 - Jun 22 by giant_stow |
Thank you for humouring me!
I only suggest her as shes on her own with no power base and most MPs could surely agree to some degree on environmental issues. She comes as close to neutral as possible
Plus no one else really wants the job anyway as its a hiding to nothing - with her, no combacks to fear.
A nice mixed cabinet... hey presto - progress and sensible, pragmatic combined government issue by issue. |
If we had a fair electoral system, that's exactly what you'd have. | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:39 - Jun 22 with 4707 views | No9 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:25 - Jun 22 by WeWereZombies |
Why should that be my job? Haven't they got anyone to do it for themselves?
Seriously, the Labour Party have struggled along with a serious split for the last year and almost won an election (and will probably win the next one in a few months) so, given the indescribable level of daftness within much of the Tory party, would it not be best for them to have another twelve or so years out of power to learn the life lessons and cull the deadwood that enabled them to, just and with the help of the Lib Dems, topple Brown. |
Ha ! Ha! - I thought you needed a job.
I don't believe the EU problem is as much of a problem with labour as it is with the tories simply because within the tories this is at the root of their beliefs.
I see labour as more take it or leave it which is why there was a lot of youg people voting for labour in the G.E. because they see the UK internal problems are far, far more difficult than the EU and imminent whereas the EU stuff could roll for years as yet..
I also believe there is a total lack of understanding about the EU created by the RW media the young don't read. | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:59 - Jun 22 with 4685 views | No9 |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:11 - Jun 22 by connorscontract |
It was a really good documentary, wasn't it?
"Brexit means Brexit"
The story of the past year in British politics with behind the scenes footage and interviews with major players on both sides of the Referendum debate.
The General Election section was really eye-opening.
When you consider that it didn't even include the most rabid Brexiteer in the Tory party, the man who dresses like a Jimmy Savile tribute act, Philip Hollobone, you are right about just how divided they are and just how many have the knives out for May now that she has thrown away a majority. |
I suppose the nearest they got to a Brexit clown was Rees-Mogg who really lives in another century but of course that is what drives him. People like Cash & Redwood et al were not on for obvious reasons. | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 20:08 - Jun 22 with 4594 views | vilanovablue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 12:51 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
How will it isolate the extreme views when those views are held by the leadership of the parties in question?
SB |
By hopefully adopting a sensible centrist approach, it's a pipe dream but I'm struggling to pick a way forward presently. | | | |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 20:15 - Jun 22 with 4586 views | connorscontract |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 13:02 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
So you are talking about ignoring the leaders of the two largest parties.
You honestly think that will work?
SB |
It worked in Borgen...
I heart Birgitte Nyborg.
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| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 20:19 - Jun 22 with 4577 views | Swansea_Blue |
| At which point do the Tory right realise the importance of the Single Market on 20:15 - Jun 22 by connorscontract |
It worked in Borgen...
I heart Birgitte Nyborg.
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I'm giving you an uppie, in the absense of not being able to give her one |  |
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