| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:43 - Jun 23 with 6053 views | No9 |
Why are we surprised?
They have been doing it for century's |  | |  |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:43 - Jun 23 with 6053 views | caught-in-limbo |
As what point did this stop being a wild conspiracy theory? |  |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:46 - Jun 23 with 6043 views | connorscontract |
Fcking hell.
How rigged is this all?
2015: Break spending limits: nothing done.
2017: break data protection through dodgy Market Research.
2020+: gerrymandered boundaries including getting rid of Corbyn's constituency.
Cheats. | | | |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:48 - Jun 23 with 6038 views | No9 |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:46 - Jun 23 by connorscontract |
Fcking hell.
How rigged is this all?
2015: Break spending limits: nothing done.
2017: break data protection through dodgy Market Research.
2020+: gerrymandered boundaries including getting rid of Corbyn's constituency.
Cheats. |
When you are the establishment you an do what you like-
The young must continue to rise if we want a country worth living in | | | |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:48 - Jun 23 with 6039 views | meekreech |
Starting to get silly. When are the investigations starting in the labour party as they are not above breaking the boundaries of decency and honest behaviour ( corbyn lack of respect for the democratic election results ) with his highly doubtful election promises ! | |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:53 - Jun 23 with 6019 views | WD19 |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:48 - Jun 23 by meekreech |
Starting to get silly. When are the investigations starting in the labour party as they are not above breaking the boundaries of decency and honest behaviour ( corbyn lack of respect for the democratic election results ) with his highly doubtful election promises ! |
The whole thing reflects badly on everyone.
The Tories need to clean up their act and C4 need to stop acting butthurt. |  | | |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:54 - Jun 23 with 6011 views | StokieBlue |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:46 - Jun 23 by connorscontract |
Fcking hell.
How rigged is this all?
2015: Break spending limits: nothing done.
2017: break data protection through dodgy Market Research.
2020+: gerrymandered boundaries including getting rid of Corbyn's constituency.
Cheats. |
Your first two points are valid.
You're 3rd point is less so. The boundary review was independent and designed to correct something which has historically been biased towards Labour (unless you can point me at a source which proves those points wrong).
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 12:10 - Jun 23 with 5988 views | Dolly2.0 |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:53 - Jun 23 by WD19 |
The whole thing reflects badly on everyone.
The Tories need to clean up their act and C4 need to stop acting butthurt. |
If the Tories have broken the law C4 have every right to investigate it. |  |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 13:52 - Jun 23 with 5947 views | No9 |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:54 - Jun 23 by StokieBlue |
Your first two points are valid.
You're 3rd point is less so. The boundary review was independent and designed to correct something which has historically been biased towards Labour (unless you can point me at a source which proves those points wrong).
SB |
The boundary review is supposed to be independent but there is good cause to consider that may not be the case.
The other point that was made last week on the radio is that due to some aspects of housebuilding and new roads etc. etc. the boudaries envisaged by Cameron are not what he envisaged so there may be a few breaks applied.
Time to change the whole messy affair | | | |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 13:55 - Jun 23 with 5940 views | BlueNomad |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:48 - Jun 23 by meekreech |
Starting to get silly. When are the investigations starting in the labour party as they are not above breaking the boundaries of decency and honest behaviour ( corbyn lack of respect for the democratic election results ) with his highly doubtful election promises ! |
Corbyn's lack of respect for democratic election results and highly doubtful election promises?
Please elaborate, with evidence, and then compare with Tories (busy doing a deal with the DUP) and their vastly amended promises? (If I was a Tory voter who did so on the basis of the manifesto I would be a bit upset now). |  | | |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:03 - Jun 23 with 5927 views | imsureazzure |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:48 - Jun 23 by meekreech |
Starting to get silly. When are the investigations starting in the labour party as they are not above breaking the boundaries of decency and honest behaviour ( corbyn lack of respect for the democratic election results ) with his highly doubtful election promises ! |
Is that the young who support labour? You know the party that was party to wide spread postal voting fraud and Gerrymandering? |  | | |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:05 - Jun 23 with 5924 views | BOjK |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 11:54 - Jun 23 by StokieBlue |
Your first two points are valid.
You're 3rd point is less so. The boundary review was independent and designed to correct something which has historically been biased towards Labour (unless you can point me at a source which proves those points wrong).
SB |
I understand the motivation behind your last point, but it is somewhat misleading.
Firstly the boundary review was always sold as "reducing the cost of our democracy" by having 600 MPs, not 650. But we all know the real reason.
That said historically the voting system has been biased towards the conservatives but *even more* biased towards Labour. This is all at the expense of the LibDems, UKIP, Greens et al. Occasionally it throws up a real anomaly like the SNP.
Trying to even out the bias towards both Labour and the Conservatives is basically gerrymandering when it ignores the massive disproportionality that can be seen under both the old and the new boundaries.
Interestingly however the "bias" in the voting system towards Labour has disappeared with the allocation of seats in the current parliament being surprisingly equitable.
Some numbers (% of vote; % of seats)
2005:
Labour - 35.2 ; 54
Cons - 32.4 ; 30
LDs - 22 ; 9.5
2017:
Labour - 40.0 ; 40.3
Cons - 42.3 ; 48.7
LDs - 7.9 ; 1.8
In 2015 UKIP won 12% of the vote and 0.2% of the seats. |  |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:08 - Jun 23 with 5909 views | Dolly2.0 |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 13:55 - Jun 23 by BlueNomad |
Corbyn's lack of respect for democratic election results and highly doubtful election promises?
Please elaborate, with evidence, and then compare with Tories (busy doing a deal with the DUP) and their vastly amended promises? (If I was a Tory voter who did so on the basis of the manifesto I would be a bit upset now). |
I posted on here BEFORE the election that the Tories have the worst record on broken manifesto promises, so no-one should be that surprised or upset.
The fact that May did a u-turn on her manifesto DURING the election campaign is quite surprising though. | |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:09 - Jun 23 with 5911 views | BOjK |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:03 - Jun 23 by imsureazzure |
Is that the young who support labour? You know the party that was party to wide spread postal voting fraud and Gerrymandering? |
Have you for any evidence for your allegation of Labour gerrymandering? And anything to support postal vote fraud being "widespread" rather than miniscule? | |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:17 - Jun 23 with 5886 views | GlasgowBlue |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:08 - Jun 23 by Dolly2.0 |
I posted on here BEFORE the election that the Tories have the worst record on broken manifesto promises, so no-one should be that surprised or upset.
The fact that May did a u-turn on her manifesto DURING the election campaign is quite surprising though. |
You did post that. It was 27 broken promises from what I remember. I then posted a list of 29 broken Labour manifesto commitments which you swerved. So your statement "the Tories have the worst record on broken manifesto promises" is untrue.
I'd also remind you that the 2010 Tory Manifesto had to be compromised, as did the Lib Dems, as they didn't win a majority and went into coalition. |  |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:35 - Jun 23 with 5849 views | StokieBlue |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:05 - Jun 23 by BOjK |
I understand the motivation behind your last point, but it is somewhat misleading.
Firstly the boundary review was always sold as "reducing the cost of our democracy" by having 600 MPs, not 650. But we all know the real reason.
That said historically the voting system has been biased towards the conservatives but *even more* biased towards Labour. This is all at the expense of the LibDems, UKIP, Greens et al. Occasionally it throws up a real anomaly like the SNP.
Trying to even out the bias towards both Labour and the Conservatives is basically gerrymandering when it ignores the massive disproportionality that can be seen under both the old and the new boundaries.
Interestingly however the "bias" in the voting system towards Labour has disappeared with the allocation of seats in the current parliament being surprisingly equitable.
Some numbers (% of vote; % of seats)
2005:
Labour - 35.2 ; 54
Cons - 32.4 ; 30
LDs - 22 ; 9.5
2017:
Labour - 40.0 ; 40.3
Cons - 42.3 ; 48.7
LDs - 7.9 ; 1.8
In 2015 UKIP won 12% of the vote and 0.2% of the seats. |
I didn't really have a motivation behind the post, other that pointing out that the last point in his list was nothing like the previous two and it was unfair.
Thanks for the analysis, it's more information than I knew before and is quite interesting.
Regarding the 2017 election, is it fair to use one dataset to say "bias" has disappeared? Surely it should be a standardised dataset based on all elections since the last changes? Agreed it's much fairer with the way the current constituencies voted but it could easily return to the very "biased" 2005 levels if no changes are made.
SB [Post edited 23 Jun 2017 14:36]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 15:47 - Jun 23 with 5803 views | BOjK |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:35 - Jun 23 by StokieBlue |
I didn't really have a motivation behind the post, other that pointing out that the last point in his list was nothing like the previous two and it was unfair.
Thanks for the analysis, it's more information than I knew before and is quite interesting.
Regarding the 2017 election, is it fair to use one dataset to say "bias" has disappeared? Surely it should be a standardised dataset based on all elections since the last changes? Agreed it's much fairer with the way the current constituencies voted but it could easily return to the very "biased" 2005 levels if no changes are made.
SB [Post edited 23 Jun 2017 14:36]
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It isn't the boundaries that lead to the "unfairness" it is the distribution of the votes of given parties.
If you run a close second in lots of seats you get punished.
If you narrowly win lots of seats you do well.
Altering the size and shape of constituencies can add a bias, but you aren't solving either the worst excesses in the electoral system (think UKIP) or making the seat distribution between the main parties obviously any fairer. You can though make it better for one side or the other for a while, until demographic and voting patterns change and the problem you were trying to solve either goes away (as it seems to have done) or gets a lot worse.
If you want to make our electoral system fairer this isn't the way to do it. | |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 16:16 - Jun 23 with 5775 views | GlasgowBlue |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 15:47 - Jun 23 by BOjK |
It isn't the boundaries that lead to the "unfairness" it is the distribution of the votes of given parties.
If you run a close second in lots of seats you get punished.
If you narrowly win lots of seats you do well.
Altering the size and shape of constituencies can add a bias, but you aren't solving either the worst excesses in the electoral system (think UKIP) or making the seat distribution between the main parties obviously any fairer. You can though make it better for one side or the other for a while, until demographic and voting patterns change and the problem you were trying to solve either goes away (as it seems to have done) or gets a lot worse.
If you want to make our electoral system fairer this isn't the way to do it. |
The only fair way to do it is to introduce PR. | |
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| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 17:48 - Jun 23 with 5723 views | Dolly2.0 |
| More allegations of Tory law breaking in election campaign on 14:17 - Jun 23 by GlasgowBlue |
You did post that. It was 27 broken promises from what I remember. I then posted a list of 29 broken Labour manifesto commitments which you swerved. So your statement "the Tories have the worst record on broken manifesto promises" is untrue.
I'd also remind you that the 2010 Tory Manifesto had to be compromised, as did the Lib Dems, as they didn't win a majority and went into coalition. |
I read an article where the Tories had the worst record. I might have a search for it if I can be bothered, but it's Friday night and I can't right now. Think it was in the Guardian.
Don't remember you showing more for Labour. | |
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