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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. 07:46 - Jun 26 with 31266 viewsSwn98

How low will this man stoop to get into political power claiming the poor residents of Grenville tower were murdered.
This tragedy should be above politics until those survivors are sorted out and the judicial process can begin.


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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:25 - Jun 26 with 7159 viewsblue_oyster

If the main political parties continue to refuse to discuss the relevant issues of the country, then the likelihood of extremists like this getting into power simply increases.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:25 - Jun 26 with 7159 viewsSacrebleu

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 08:29 - Jun 26 by No9

According to the media this morning ALL specimens of cladding tested so far have failed not just the ones in Camden.
Camden have, it seems, taken a 'safety first' position.


There are other issues at Camden such as gas pipes and fire doors that are the trigger for immediate evacuation.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:27 - Jun 26 with 7148 viewstcblue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:11 - Jun 26 by xrayspecs

On austerity, total government spending is higher today (£742bn) than when the financial crisis started in 2006 (£684bn). It peaked in 2010 at £765bn, so we are just 3% lower than peak budget and 10% higher than when the financial crisis started.

It is what you choose to spend the money on that matters.

On inspections, I would be surprised if having more inspectors would have prevented the Grenfell disaster, as the work needed to uncover the issue would unlikely to be on their schedule. I do take your more general point though.


£684bn in 2006, with inflation applied, is more than £900bn as of 2016 (so probably more like £950bn) now.

Austerity.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:28 - Jun 26 with 7140 viewsScuzzer

Which football team does he play for?
This should be on General.

Established 1968

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:33 - Jun 26 with 7122 viewsStokieBlue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:27 - Jun 26 by tcblue

£684bn in 2006, with inflation applied, is more than £900bn as of 2016 (so probably more like £950bn) now.

Austerity.


You have a relevant point there but but I don't think it's anywhere near as high as you are saying.

The figures (compounded) give 858bn in 2016:

2006 684
2007 2.12% 699
2008 3.11% 720
2009 2.83% 741
2010 3.73% 768
2011 4.20% 800
2012 2.71% 822
2013 1.99% 839
2014 0.50% 843
2015 0.20% 844
2016 1.60% 858

SB

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:35 - Jun 26 with 7118 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:27 - Jun 26 by tcblue

£684bn in 2006, with inflation applied, is more than £900bn as of 2016 (so probably more like £950bn) now.

Austerity.


Instead of spending more money what we need is less people
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:44 - Jun 26 with 7100 viewsxrayspecs

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:27 - Jun 26 by tcblue

£684bn in 2006, with inflation applied, is more than £900bn as of 2016 (so probably more like £950bn) now.

Austerity.


That is a fair point.

Worth also knowing that in each and every year since 2006 government has spent more than it has raised in taxes, so still some way to go to get the economy into a balanced position.

In the long run, we will need to decide whether we are a high tax, high spend country (see Sweden as an example) or low tax, low spend. The combination of low tax, high spend is not going to work.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:46 - Jun 26 with 7098 viewslowhouseblue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:23 - Jun 26 by Swansea_Blue

Anyone hear Will Self's damning assessment of how we've approached social housing and in particular the deeper issues behind the current cladding approach ( or 'barcode facades' as he put it)?

I suppose we're rightly looking at the details and concentrating on what to do with individual tower blocks now, but if this doesn't make someone sit up and re-evaluate social housing from the ground up I don't know what will. Yet we're still building them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08v8vh0


he seemed to be asserting that the root cause of the disaster was financial - we simply don't know that. self was using the disaster to support a thesis on social housing but until the enquiry reports we don't know if it does that.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:53 - Jun 26 with 7077 views26_Paz

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:35 - Jun 26 by FrowsyArmLarry

Instead of spending more money what we need is less people


What we need to do is not just blindly spend money. We could get much more money to front line services without actually spending that much more overall. the amount of public money that doesn't reach front line services because it gets wasted in shockingly poor procurement practices or spent on inflated 'management' is ridiculous. Slim this and get more money to the frontline without breaking the bank, everyone's a winner! Sure its not quite as simple as that but there is a ton as wastage we could target to make sure services get more of the money.

The Paz Man

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:58 - Jun 26 with 7080 viewshadleighboyblue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 08:32 - Jun 26 by Johnny_Boy

These were the contractors:
http://www.rydon.co.uk

But ultimately, the work had to be signed-off by the head-honcho of the Council. Surely manslaughter charges will be aimed at a fair number of high end officials which oversaw proceedings.

Reading between the lines, the cladding is/was still deemed safe to use, as long as the structure was no higher than 3 floors. It is however banned in the USA.


Surely the Fire Brigade inspect the buildings to ensure they pass fire regulations ?
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 10:10 - Jun 26 with 7069 viewsStokieBlue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 08:51 - Jun 26 by BanksterDebtSlave

Will austerity have resulted in more or fewer fire safety officers doing more or less inspections ?


Further to your point, why would the frequency of inspections matter in this case?

Surely one accurate inspection of the cladding would be enough? The inspector shouldn't be around every week to check the cladding.

We should wait and see what the failings were and then address them.

SB

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 11:04 - Jun 26 with 7037 viewstcblue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:33 - Jun 26 by StokieBlue

You have a relevant point there but but I don't think it's anywhere near as high as you are saying.

The figures (compounded) give 858bn in 2016:

2006 684
2007 2.12% 699
2008 3.11% 720
2009 2.83% 741
2010 3.73% 768
2011 4.20% 800
2012 2.71% 822
2013 1.99% 839
2014 0.50% 843
2015 0.20% 844
2016 1.60% 858

SB


I used the BoE inflation calculator which suggested £908bn. I'm aware there's pitfalls with any of this and the true answer is probably neither of our figures, but it does prove at least that inflation is absolutely going crazy.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculat
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 11:29 - Jun 26 with 6998 viewsSuperfrans

Murder is probably too strong a word, but corporate/institutional manslaughter clearly isn't.

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 11:48 - Jun 26 with 6983 viewsNo9

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 08:54 - Jun 26 by StokieBlue

Straight in with the points scoring. It was an issue before austerity as archers video from 1984 showed.

Guess it's better to go for a bash rather than solve the problem first and then analyse and resolve all the causes.

SB
[Post edited 26 Jun 2017 8:55]


You can trace the current issues right back to when Heseltine changed all the planning laws - this is how we got dwellings built on flood plains etc.

Building was subbed out by many cost cutting councils some under 'partnership' agreements.

I know of several cases where the planners incorporated things into the plannign consent then the developer with the 'Privatised' Building control changed things, which would never have got through planning consent,on site.

It is a minefield of corruption
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 12:41 - Jun 26 with 6948 viewsNo9

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 10:10 - Jun 26 by StokieBlue

Further to your point, why would the frequency of inspections matter in this case?

Surely one accurate inspection of the cladding would be enough? The inspector shouldn't be around every week to check the cladding.

We should wait and see what the failings were and then address them.

SB


The question comes down to whether or not the cladding materials were fit for purpose and here is where government have responsibilities.

It goes right back to what the manufacturer of the materialsmdesigne and tested the cladding for and was it maufactuerd using the correct ingredients and the correct processes.

On the face of it the comments attributed to the Gt Yarmouth MP are very damning indeed but that doesn't mean the LA are off the hook.

If you were to start the correct procedures to follow this material from concept to use you may not only take a long time but find some eyebrow racing incidents along the way.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 12:44 - Jun 26 with 6940 viewsRadlett_blue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 11:04 - Jun 26 by tcblue

I used the BoE inflation calculator which suggested £908bn. I'm aware there's pitfalls with any of this and the true answer is probably neither of our figures, but it does prove at least that inflation is absolutely going crazy.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculat


/to someone who lived through the 1970s, inflation is not "going crazy". What the figures do show is the impact of compounding.

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 15:56 - Jun 26 with 6882 viewsLightningboy

McDonnell and especially Corbyn are typical politicians - just blame the opposition for everything.

I'm no tory or a fan of May but at least she's trying to get on with a bloody difficult job - what the hell was Corbyn doing at Glastonbury?!..the guy is an absolute chancer,just trying to build up his cult status amongst the students and the unwashed..all the crocodile tears and fake hugs over the past couple of weeks are vomit-inducing.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 16:35 - Jun 26 with 6858 viewsBluesquid

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 12:41 - Jun 26 by No9

The question comes down to whether or not the cladding materials were fit for purpose and here is where government have responsibilities.

It goes right back to what the manufacturer of the materialsmdesigne and tested the cladding for and was it maufactuerd using the correct ingredients and the correct processes.

On the face of it the comments attributed to the Gt Yarmouth MP are very damning indeed but that doesn't mean the LA are off the hook.

If you were to start the correct procedures to follow this material from concept to use you may not only take a long time but find some eyebrow racing incidents along the way.


It's not just the cladding, according to numerous reports there were gas pipes in the stairwell.
Gas pipes in a fire exit, how on earth did that get approved?
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 17:49 - Jun 26 with 6824 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 08:57 - Jun 26 by StokieBlue

Where have I said that? Rather pathetic to jump straight to that and not doing yourself any favours.

You don't agree it's detestable?

SB


By "Hillsborough model" I am referring to the likely time frame for the 'truth' to come out.....I think he was criticising previous politicians of all colours from what little I have read...not had time to listen to original source yet .

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 17:51 - Jun 26 with 6824 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 08:51 - Jun 26 by BanksterDebtSlave

Will austerity have resulted in more or fewer fire safety officers doing more or less inspections ?


I find it interesting/confusing that people down vote a question...mind you lowhouseblue was one of them so shouldn't be too surprised !

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 17:54 - Jun 26 with 6820 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:11 - Jun 26 by xrayspecs

On austerity, total government spending is higher today (£742bn) than when the financial crisis started in 2006 (£684bn). It peaked in 2010 at £765bn, so we are just 3% lower than peak budget and 10% higher than when the financial crisis started.

It is what you choose to spend the money on that matters.

On inspections, I would be surprised if having more inspectors would have prevented the Grenfell disaster, as the work needed to uncover the issue would unlikely to be on their schedule. I do take your more general point though.


There were gas pipes up the stairwell!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 17:59 - Jun 26 with 6816 viewslowhouseblue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 17:54 - Jun 26 by BanksterDebtSlave

There were gas pipes up the stairwell!


and you know that that was the result of austerity?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 19:56 - Jun 26 with 6791 viewsSwn98

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 09:28 - Jun 26 by Scuzzer

Which football team does he play for?
This should be on General.


If you read my second post i did apologise for not placing it on general threads.
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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 21:59 - Jun 26 with 6752 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 17:59 - Jun 26 by lowhouseblue

and you know that that was the result of austerity?


I know that austerity will have resulted in fewer or at best rushed fire checks......also 1 in, 2 out regulations leads to the culture of corner cutting.
What leads to your desire to be a Tory apologist (no I am not saying they are responsible for Grenfell....yet )Oh and the bonfire of the quangos which you and others have ignored me raising enough times that I assume you accept made the outcome more likely.

Ps....."that that" ?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 22:11 - Jun 26 with 6740 viewslowhouseblue

John Mcdonald Just heard his Glastonbury rant. on 21:59 - Jun 26 by BanksterDebtSlave

I know that austerity will have resulted in fewer or at best rushed fire checks......also 1 in, 2 out regulations leads to the culture of corner cutting.
What leads to your desire to be a Tory apologist (no I am not saying they are responsible for Grenfell....yet )Oh and the bonfire of the quangos which you and others have ignored me raising enough times that I assume you accept made the outcome more likely.

Ps....."that that" ?


i'm not an apologist for anything. i just don't think anyone should link this tragedy to austerity without solid evidence.

were the hundreds of missing fire doors in camden council run housing blocks the result of austerity?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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