| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 13:11 - Jun 26 with 5283 views | blue_oyster |
The article seems to pretend that the war wasn't caused by Western intervention into a sovereign nation. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 13:13 - Jun 26 with 5274 views | GlasgowBlue |
Good article. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 07:54 - Jun 27 with 5203 views | BorisOrTrevor |
Given that the Saudis want to shut down Al Jazeera as it causes them too much bother (along with a number of other demands of Qatar) this article now tickling their tummy again is bang on the money. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 08:34 - Jun 27 with 5167 views | StokieBlue |
Wasn't there a UN report saying it was sarin and it was Assad?
SB |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 09:05 - Jun 27 with 5147 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
A "sarin like" substance that could have been a "pesticide rather than a fertiliser" as Hersh had suggested......all seems to confirm that there are no facts. We are presented with the incident as if it is fact ! |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 09:50 - Jun 27 with 5131 views | DanTheMan |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 09:05 - Jun 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
A "sarin like" substance that could have been a "pesticide rather than a fertiliser" as Hersh had suggested......all seems to confirm that there are no facts. We are presented with the incident as if it is fact ! |
If you read the reports, they found actual Sarin as well as other Sarin-like substances. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 09:56 - Jun 27 with 5127 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 09:50 - Jun 27 by DanTheMan |
If you read the reports, they found actual Sarin as well as other Sarin-like substances. |
Only because I'm rushing....do you mean the links from your link and who are 'they' ? Is it UN ? | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:18 - Jun 27 with 5100 views | caught-in-limbo |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 13:13 - Jun 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Good article. |
I'm not really surprised that you think the article produced by a news agency based in Doha, in the Wahabbi state of Qatar which has been a state sponsor of terrorism in Syria and abroad since the beginning of the war in Syria in 2011 is "good". |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:18 - Jun 27 with 5098 views | DanTheMan |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 09:56 - Jun 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Only because I'm rushing....do you mean the links from your link and who are 'they' ? Is it UN ? |
No, OVPW and French Government. | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:27 - Jun 27 with 5080 views | caught-in-limbo |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 08:34 - Jun 27 by StokieBlue |
Wasn't there a UN report saying it was sarin and it was Assad?
SB |
There was no analysis of the site. Samples were taken by "rebels", (likely our terrorists) and sent for analysis in Turkey.
There are no grounds I can see for rejecting the Sy Hersh's article. He has an almost unblemished record of accurate independent journalism. He's not popular however because of his exposure of uncomfortable truths about US intervention in Vietnam and Abu Ghraib prison (Iraq) to name just two. | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:27 - Jun 27 with 5079 views | Radlett_blue |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 13:11 - Jun 26 by blue_oyster |
The article seems to pretend that the war wasn't caused by Western intervention into a sovereign nation. |
Yes, how to deal with rogue states & unpleasant dictators has been a problem for years. Western intervention has generally been counter productive - removing Saddam produced a divided state, which helped spawn ISIS. Removing Gadaffi produced a failed state. The West by then became more cautious with Syria, half-heartedly supporting the rebels but Assad is close to regaining control, with help from Russia. I personally believe intervention does more harm than good, especially in states with no real political institutions. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:36 - Jun 27 with 5066 views | Swansea_Blue |
Indeed, and we'll play lap dog. On This Morning earlier today, Fallon openly stated that the Americans haven't shared any intelligence of chemical weapons and we'd willingly join them in military action whether there was evidence or not.
I found that pretty staggering to be honest and would have thought Nick Robinson would have pushed him more on that. Echo's of Blair, Bush and Iraq. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 14:29 - Jun 27 with 5013 views | blue_oyster |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:27 - Jun 27 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, how to deal with rogue states & unpleasant dictators has been a problem for years. Western intervention has generally been counter productive - removing Saddam produced a divided state, which helped spawn ISIS. Removing Gadaffi produced a failed state. The West by then became more cautious with Syria, half-heartedly supporting the rebels but Assad is close to regaining control, with help from Russia. I personally believe intervention does more harm than good, especially in states with no real political institutions. |
You mean how to deal with rogue states and dictators that Saudi Arabia doesn't like. Great foreign policy isn't it? | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 14:54 - Jun 27 with 4986 views | Steve_M |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 13:11 - Jun 26 by blue_oyster |
The article seems to pretend that the war wasn't caused by Western intervention into a sovereign nation. |
Of course, any Syrian people rebelling against Assad could only have done at the behest of the perfidious West. I suppose the same goes for those is father massacred at Hama in the 80s.
It isn't critical thinking to parrot the Putin/Assad view. |  |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 15:06 - Jun 27 with 4972 views | Bluesquid |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 10:36 - Jun 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Indeed, and we'll play lap dog. On This Morning earlier today, Fallon openly stated that the Americans haven't shared any intelligence of chemical weapons and we'd willingly join them in military action whether there was evidence or not.
I found that pretty staggering to be honest and would have thought Nick Robinson would have pushed him more on that. Echo's of Blair, Bush and Iraq. |
Well i wouldn't worry too much. The US/UK and their allies are in Syria to destroy ISIS. As soon as they have defeated them they will pack their bags, bid farewell to Syria and return home.
Saddest thing is, there are still people who actually think that this is the case.  |  | | |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 15:20 - Jun 27 with 4957 views | blue_oyster |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 14:54 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
Of course, any Syrian people rebelling against Assad could only have done at the behest of the perfidious West. I suppose the same goes for those is father massacred at Hama in the 80s.
It isn't critical thinking to parrot the Putin/Assad view. |
Indeed, there was no passage for overthrowing the government that wouldn't include violence. | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 15:27 - Jun 27 with 4948 views | BorisOrTrevor |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 14:54 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
Of course, any Syrian people rebelling against Assad could only have done at the behest of the perfidious West. I suppose the same goes for those is father massacred at Hama in the 80s.
It isn't critical thinking to parrot the Putin/Assad view. |
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the Assad regime is anything other than a nasty one. But what they are saying, in increasing numbers, is that we are sick of being fed lies (through the government controlled media), about ISIS, about Chemical weapons, about pretty much all of it to engineer interventions and outcomes which seem to play pretty much to the tune of what Saudi Arabia and others (Israel, UAE) want as part of the geopolitical game they are playing with Iran. When naughty Qatar wants to play along with Iran, they are punished publicly and quite unbelievably like a naughty child.
Here's the thing - get the media to package up the truth for a change, the Assad regime is bad but the alternative is far far worse, for the people living there and for the wider region. Sometimes these are the kind of choices you have to make, like when we allied with Stalin in world war 2, the lesser of two evils.
Everybody can see the real motive is containing Russia, Iran, and selling weapons by the bucketloads to a bunch of Arab countries who probably wouldn't even be able to successfully use them if it ever came to it - is just a way of them buying support and influence. Lets not pretend it is anything to do with protecting the civilians in Syria or fighting terrorism - because it isn't. That's the lie you are fed by the media and so many of you seem to swallow it, even now! | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 17:11 - Jun 27 with 4900 views | Steve_M |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 15:27 - Jun 27 by BorisOrTrevor |
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the Assad regime is anything other than a nasty one. But what they are saying, in increasing numbers, is that we are sick of being fed lies (through the government controlled media), about ISIS, about Chemical weapons, about pretty much all of it to engineer interventions and outcomes which seem to play pretty much to the tune of what Saudi Arabia and others (Israel, UAE) want as part of the geopolitical game they are playing with Iran. When naughty Qatar wants to play along with Iran, they are punished publicly and quite unbelievably like a naughty child.
Here's the thing - get the media to package up the truth for a change, the Assad regime is bad but the alternative is far far worse, for the people living there and for the wider region. Sometimes these are the kind of choices you have to make, like when we allied with Stalin in world war 2, the lesser of two evils.
Everybody can see the real motive is containing Russia, Iran, and selling weapons by the bucketloads to a bunch of Arab countries who probably wouldn't even be able to successfully use them if it ever came to it - is just a way of them buying support and influence. Lets not pretend it is anything to do with protecting the civilians in Syria or fighting terrorism - because it isn't. That's the lie you are fed by the media and so many of you seem to swallow it, even now! |
The options for the US, for that is what you are really talking about here, were effectively to support opponents or support Assad; had Putin not bailed him out then there was a very real danger of Assad being reduced to a rump of territory. Instead the US-lead response was half-arsed and possibly worse than doing nothing.
Underlying all of this though is the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, both happy so sponsor terrorism when it suits them and with strong voices in each country rather eager to escalate. I'm not sure the US government would have found a way to resolve that without Trump but he can certainly make the whole situation worse.
If everyone is dancing to the Saudi tune then why did the nuclear deal with Iran happen? Which truth do you want? The Russian one or the Assad one or the Iranian one? None of them are more reliable than the US Government. No one gives too much of a fuk about ordinary Syrians anyway. | |
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 18:01 - Jun 27 with 4875 views | caught-in-limbo |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 14:54 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
Of course, any Syrian people rebelling against Assad could only have done at the behest of the perfidious West. I suppose the same goes for those is father massacred at Hama in the 80s.
It isn't critical thinking to parrot the Putin/Assad view. |
It isn't critical thinking to simply parrot any view.
When it comes down to who to believe, in this chapter on Syria, I generally look at the wider picture.
a) It displeases some people that Russia sells its gas to a European market.
b) An alternative supply could be Qatar.
c) Qatar is a wahhabi state.
d) ISIS, ISIL, Daesh, Al Nusrah, Al Qaida, LIFG, you name it, are Wahhabi groups
e) The states of Qatar and Saudi Arabia are sponsors of these groups.
f) Saudi Arabia and Qatar are our friends in the Middle East.
g) We do billions of dollars forth of weapons deals with them all the time.
h) Syria didn't want to host a Qatar-Saudi to Turkey pipeline.
i) Qatar funded ISIS terrorists in Syria.
j) Russia sat and watched Syria fall apart from early 2011- late 2015, and intervened following the invitation of the Syrian government.
k) The US was present in Syria before Russia (uninvited) and during their time in the country, the situation only worsened as ISIS grew.
l) Gen. Michael Flynn warned of the creation of ISIS in Iraq to his administration. They did nothing about it.
m) Assad is portrayed in our media as the same sort of humanitarian monster as Col Gadhafi in Libya.
n) Once Gadhafi was removed with the assistance of UN/NATO forces, the country was left in the grips of LIFG (Al Qaida). The plight of normal Libyans is immeasurably worse now than before our intervention.
o) The same is planned for Syria.
p) Our politicians, oil companies and weapons companies don't give a stuff about the people in Syria.
Seymore Hirsh's article fits with those points. The view of our government and our Western media channels doesn't.
Seymore Hirsh has an incredible record of accurate independent journalism. He has a lot of confidents inside the US military. His information sources are even better than the UK based "Bellingcat", also known as Elliot Higgins - his sources are ... Google.
I believe Hirsh is right. If he is right about this supposed sarin gas attack in April, then Assad and Putin's take on the events are also right. That does not mean that anyone else who believes Hirsch's take on events is automatically parroting Putin or Assad.
I will go further. The situation in Syria, for those who have been following events closely over the last 6 years is so clearly an attempt to topple Assad and install a Western compliant leader, anyone who thinks that it's a humanitarian crisis caused by the evil hand of Assad and Putin which started as authentic uprising against Assad by the Syrian people have simply parroted the the Washington/London/Paris/Tel Aviv line. That's certainly not critical thinking. [Post edited 27 Jun 2017 18:10]
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| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 20:47 - Jun 27 with 4814 views | Bluesquid |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 17:11 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
The options for the US, for that is what you are really talking about here, were effectively to support opponents or support Assad; had Putin not bailed him out then there was a very real danger of Assad being reduced to a rump of territory. Instead the US-lead response was half-arsed and possibly worse than doing nothing.
Underlying all of this though is the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, both happy so sponsor terrorism when it suits them and with strong voices in each country rather eager to escalate. I'm not sure the US government would have found a way to resolve that without Trump but he can certainly make the whole situation worse.
If everyone is dancing to the Saudi tune then why did the nuclear deal with Iran happen? Which truth do you want? The Russian one or the Assad one or the Iranian one? None of them are more reliable than the US Government. No one gives too much of a fuk about ordinary Syrians anyway. |
Surely it's about learning from history, wouldn't you say? About learning from the past or we are doomed to repeat it and all of that?
Well serial offenders need to be locked up.
So what truth do we want?
Note Iran in 1953 and Syria in 1956...
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-m | | | |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 21:08 - Jun 27 with 4800 views | DanTheMan |
| I know no one wants to think about Syria at the moment but.... on 18:01 - Jun 27 by caught-in-limbo |
It isn't critical thinking to simply parrot any view.
When it comes down to who to believe, in this chapter on Syria, I generally look at the wider picture.
a) It displeases some people that Russia sells its gas to a European market.
b) An alternative supply could be Qatar.
c) Qatar is a wahhabi state.
d) ISIS, ISIL, Daesh, Al Nusrah, Al Qaida, LIFG, you name it, are Wahhabi groups
e) The states of Qatar and Saudi Arabia are sponsors of these groups.
f) Saudi Arabia and Qatar are our friends in the Middle East.
g) We do billions of dollars forth of weapons deals with them all the time.
h) Syria didn't want to host a Qatar-Saudi to Turkey pipeline.
i) Qatar funded ISIS terrorists in Syria.
j) Russia sat and watched Syria fall apart from early 2011- late 2015, and intervened following the invitation of the Syrian government.
k) The US was present in Syria before Russia (uninvited) and during their time in the country, the situation only worsened as ISIS grew.
l) Gen. Michael Flynn warned of the creation of ISIS in Iraq to his administration. They did nothing about it.
m) Assad is portrayed in our media as the same sort of humanitarian monster as Col Gadhafi in Libya.
n) Once Gadhafi was removed with the assistance of UN/NATO forces, the country was left in the grips of LIFG (Al Qaida). The plight of normal Libyans is immeasurably worse now than before our intervention.
o) The same is planned for Syria.
p) Our politicians, oil companies and weapons companies don't give a stuff about the people in Syria.
Seymore Hirsh's article fits with those points. The view of our government and our Western media channels doesn't.
Seymore Hirsh has an incredible record of accurate independent journalism. He has a lot of confidents inside the US military. His information sources are even better than the UK based "Bellingcat", also known as Elliot Higgins - his sources are ... Google.
I believe Hirsh is right. If he is right about this supposed sarin gas attack in April, then Assad and Putin's take on the events are also right. That does not mean that anyone else who believes Hirsch's take on events is automatically parroting Putin or Assad.
I will go further. The situation in Syria, for those who have been following events closely over the last 6 years is so clearly an attempt to topple Assad and install a Western compliant leader, anyone who thinks that it's a humanitarian crisis caused by the evil hand of Assad and Putin which started as authentic uprising against Assad by the Syrian people have simply parroted the the Washington/London/Paris/Tel Aviv line. That's certainly not critical thinking. [Post edited 27 Jun 2017 18:10]
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"His information sources are even better than the UK based "Bellingcat", also known as Elliot Higgins - his sources are ... Google. "
Yup, so you didn't read one tiny piece of the article. I like how even when I use independent based sources you still find a problem with them.
Maybe you could address the criticisms he had with Hersh's (not Hirsh) article instead of just ignoring it because you don't like that it came from someone who happens to be based in the UK. Perhaps you know the location of the attack and provide the co-ordinates on Terraserver? | |
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