| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah 09:04 - Jun 28 with 32852 views | Steve_M |
Worth a read.
"[H}is growing ranks of cheerleaders wish to simply see what they want to see, project what they want onto him, and contort all fact and reason to pretend that there are no questions, no downsides - and that anyone who raises those questions, or points out those downsides, is part of the cabal of dark forces out to bring down the messiah"
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/06/27/jeremy-corbyn-is-a-politic
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:46 - Jun 28 with 6152 views | Vic |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:10 - Jun 28 by lowhouseblue |
in what way did corbyn avoid "more selfish policies that benefit individuals and don't demand the types of sacrifice needed to properly fund and take care of the parts of society that need it"? his promise to his supporters was: I'm going to give you everything you want and it won't cost you a penny, someone else will pay. |
But ... but ... but thats different. That's not being selfish, it's being .... um ... fair. Yes, that's it, it's being fair that those who have plenty should give it to me.
I can't see in anyway in which promising to wipe off student debts was in any way playing to personal interests. |  |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:52 - Jun 28 with 6125 views | StokieBlue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:10 - Jun 28 by lowhouseblue |
in what way did corbyn avoid "more selfish policies that benefit individuals and don't demand the types of sacrifice needed to properly fund and take care of the parts of society that need it"? his promise to his supporters was: I'm going to give you everything you want and it won't cost you a penny, someone else will pay. |
Exactly, he wasn't asking for many sacrifices from his target audience.
Well, none in fact.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:57 - Jun 28 with 6116 views | No9 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:10 - Jun 28 by lowhouseblue |
in what way did corbyn avoid "more selfish policies that benefit individuals and don't demand the types of sacrifice needed to properly fund and take care of the parts of society that need it"? his promise to his supporters was: I'm going to give you everything you want and it won't cost you a penny, someone else will pay. |
You must remember what Bob Dylan sang- 'when you aitn got nothing, you got nuthin to loose'
That is a lesson the tories never learned & one day the worm turns.
How do you expect someone on £15k a year to be able to buy things and better themselves?
How would you like to be a student coming out of Uni with a £50 -60 k debt and very little prospect of getting a job that will get you out of debt. |  | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 17:06 - Jun 28 with 6117 views | Vic |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:57 - Jun 28 by No9 |
You must remember what Bob Dylan sang- 'when you aitn got nothing, you got nuthin to loose'
That is a lesson the tories never learned & one day the worm turns.
How do you expect someone on £15k a year to be able to buy things and better themselves?
How would you like to be a student coming out of Uni with a £50 -60 k debt and very little prospect of getting a job that will get you out of debt. |
Maybe you don't! But what about those on £20k or £25k, etc? Can they, should they not, share a bit of the burden? Why should those carrying the greatest responsibility, those who have invested the most in training and study have to pay it all?
Sorry if that's a bit simplistic, but so it is to cite the student and person on £15k.
BTW - I'd say to the student, preferably before they go to uni and rack up the debt, - do you really want to do this. Is it necessary? What's the point and how is it going to help you? To many still go and get degrees which are next to worthless. Would be better off going to work and working their way up, or getting an apprentihsip. | |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 17:25 - Jun 28 with 6088 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 11:58 - Jun 28 by monytowbray |
Yeah but the right need something to clutch at. |
Have you checked out your avatar lately? |  | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 19:45 - Jun 28 with 6051 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 17:06 - Jun 28 by Vic |
Maybe you don't! But what about those on £20k or £25k, etc? Can they, should they not, share a bit of the burden? Why should those carrying the greatest responsibility, those who have invested the most in training and study have to pay it all?
Sorry if that's a bit simplistic, but so it is to cite the student and person on £15k.
BTW - I'd say to the student, preferably before they go to uni and rack up the debt, - do you really want to do this. Is it necessary? What's the point and how is it going to help you? To many still go and get degrees which are next to worthless. Would be better off going to work and working their way up, or getting an apprentihsip. |
Good post Vic. My lad decided 3 weeks ago that he couldn,t see the point in continuing with his A level studies. We wrote up a CV, sent it by e-mail to scores of compaies & within a week he had been offered an apprentiship, he started this week. He can see a future.
On your other comment, i come within the £25k bracket (some times more), i think to be fair, a little extra from that wouldn,t go amiss. The Lib/Dems, i believe would have put a penny in the pound on tax to share it more evenly. Not a bad idea in the grand scheme of things. |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 21:12 - Jun 28 with 6017 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 14:36 - Jun 28 by Vic |
Sorry, but I am struggling with what you're saying here! What are I saying that's the exact opposite to you or Callis?
Look at my back posts - though I'm no fan of Corbyns, to say the least, I have consistently since the election said that he did very well, that he got his tactics right, that he fronted a brilliant campaign. No one can argue with that.
I've also damned the Tories campaign as utter rubbish. It was a train crash from the start.
My case is that some on here and elsewhere do not or will not entertain anything negative about Corbyn or his policies. It's as if everything he says and does is absolutely right and above question.
Maybe I've missed some of your or Callis posts but I don't recal one occasion where you've admitted some concern or criticism as being justified, you defend him to to the last. [Post edited 28 Jun 2017 14:38]
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I've only gone by what you've said in this thread, I don't know your history. I have critisised him but generally I think he's got it right*. I make no apology for that, compared to the alternative.
*I mean Corbyn, not Callis. Some of his musical tastes are well dodgy. |  |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 21:40 - Jun 28 with 5991 views | HARRY10 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 14:36 - Jun 28 by Vic |
Sorry, but I am struggling with what you're saying here! What are I saying that's the exact opposite to you or Callis?
Look at my back posts - though I'm no fan of Corbyns, to say the least, I have consistently since the election said that he did very well, that he got his tactics right, that he fronted a brilliant campaign. No one can argue with that.
I've also damned the Tories campaign as utter rubbish. It was a train crash from the start.
My case is that some on here and elsewhere do not or will not entertain anything negative about Corbyn or his policies. It's as if everything he says and does is absolutely right and above question.
Maybe I've missed some of your or Callis posts but I don't recal one occasion where you've admitted some concern or criticism as being justified, you defend him to to the last. [Post edited 28 Jun 2017 14:38]
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"I have consistently since the election said that he did very well, that he got his tactics right, that he fronted a brilliant campaign. No one can argue with that. "
He fronted a brilliant campaign. Yes. he got his tactics right. No
In the snense that you as others are portraying this cult of the personality. Corbyn was good at what he did but almost all the decisions were not his. That is how politics (and business) works.
The Tories have said they were 'blown away' by the Labour campaign. That was partly due to Labour having begun organising for an election way back. Almost after the 2015 election.
Whilst the Tories had the money and much of the printed media they did not have the feet on the ground. Much of what the media were putting out actually had a negative effect.
In short until we get away from this Britain's Got Talent approach to politics nothing much will change. Corbyn is part of change NOT the cause of it. Party leaders cannot act like medieval Kings where they rule by whim and wish.
Recent events have merely shown voters need to rally around something/one. A year ago it was the EU as the baddie and Farage as the goodie. This year those roles were taken by May and Corbyn.
Some would do well to remember the old maxim
History makes great men... NOT the other way round. | | | |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:13 - Jun 28 with 5970 views | Darth_Koont |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 21:40 - Jun 28 by HARRY10 |
"I have consistently since the election said that he did very well, that he got his tactics right, that he fronted a brilliant campaign. No one can argue with that. "
He fronted a brilliant campaign. Yes. he got his tactics right. No
In the snense that you as others are portraying this cult of the personality. Corbyn was good at what he did but almost all the decisions were not his. That is how politics (and business) works.
The Tories have said they were 'blown away' by the Labour campaign. That was partly due to Labour having begun organising for an election way back. Almost after the 2015 election.
Whilst the Tories had the money and much of the printed media they did not have the feet on the ground. Much of what the media were putting out actually had a negative effect.
In short until we get away from this Britain's Got Talent approach to politics nothing much will change. Corbyn is part of change NOT the cause of it. Party leaders cannot act like medieval Kings where they rule by whim and wish.
Recent events have merely shown voters need to rally around something/one. A year ago it was the EU as the baddie and Farage as the goodie. This year those roles were taken by May and Corbyn.
Some would do well to remember the old maxim
History makes great men... NOT the other way round. |
Good post. This stuck out: "Corbyn is part of change NOT the cause of it."
I don't even think that Corbyn is "the best man for the job" but he's the de facto figurehead for a change that's at least 10 years in the waiting because the current party politics ... red, blue, orange or purple ... just doesn't work.
Anyone with more than one brain cell and any sense of where the world is heading (both good or bad) can see that the status quo is status f*cked. There are literally no answers to the challenges people face or will face in the future apart from "If it ain't completely and utterly broke, don't fix it" and "By the way, vote for us."
Corbyn has at least suggested there's a different ideological approach to governing and developing a society. Which in itself is a huge and incredibly important step on the road to political recovery. |  |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:19 - Jun 28 with 5957 views | StokieBlue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:13 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Good post. This stuck out: "Corbyn is part of change NOT the cause of it."
I don't even think that Corbyn is "the best man for the job" but he's the de facto figurehead for a change that's at least 10 years in the waiting because the current party politics ... red, blue, orange or purple ... just doesn't work.
Anyone with more than one brain cell and any sense of where the world is heading (both good or bad) can see that the status quo is status f*cked. There are literally no answers to the challenges people face or will face in the future apart from "If it ain't completely and utterly broke, don't fix it" and "By the way, vote for us."
Corbyn has at least suggested there's a different ideological approach to governing and developing a society. Which in itself is a huge and incredibly important step on the road to political recovery. |
Tax, borrow and spend is hardly a new ideological approach to running a society.
Why paint it as something other than what it is?
He's done well and came over well in the campaign but at the root the policies are straight from the old school handbook.
SB [Post edited 28 Jun 2017 22:23]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:46 - Jun 28 with 5931 views | HARRY10 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:19 - Jun 28 by StokieBlue |
Tax, borrow and spend is hardly a new ideological approach to running a society.
Why paint it as something other than what it is?
He's done well and came over well in the campaign but at the root the policies are straight from the old school handbook.
SB [Post edited 28 Jun 2017 22:23]
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You confuse the method with the intent
Taxes are to put it bluntly the contribution to running society so as to produce a healthy workforce
The way it has been done recently is not working to those aims, never mind providing security and satisfaction for those voters.
A government that has claimed there is no 'magic money tree' suddenly finds £1.6bn, to keep it in power, does a sharp U Turn on public sector pay for much the same reason suggest there is much wrong.
One of the positive sides of the recent attacks fire has been the recognition of how folk can see where help is needed where in fact we are social beings who not only derive satisfaction from co-operating, but recognise that is necessary, not an option.
What Corbyn stands for is those who feel that society is being stopped from running this way. That too many people are stuck miles from where there is work, unable to move. Too many are stuck in shoddy housing whilst others milk the benefits system as buy to let landlords.
It is those (and many more) glaring and totally unnecessary inequalities that have caused folk to fight back. Corbyn is merely expressing that anger by dint of having a platform.
Yes we need to borrow, And yes we need to spend.
But not for buy to let, but built to live in. | | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:48 - Jun 28 with 5932 views | jaykay |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:19 - Jun 28 by StokieBlue |
Tax, borrow and spend is hardly a new ideological approach to running a society.
Why paint it as something other than what it is?
He's done well and came over well in the campaign but at the root the policies are straight from the old school handbook.
SB [Post edited 28 Jun 2017 22:23]
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aren't all the polices from all parties straight out of the old school book,or have i missed the new ones |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:50 - Jun 28 with 5927 views | vapour_trail |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:48 - Jun 28 by jaykay |
aren't all the polices from all parties straight out of the old school book,or have i missed the new ones |
You clearly missed lord buckethead. |  |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:05 - Jun 28 with 5919 views | stantheman |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:57 - Jun 28 by No9 |
You must remember what Bob Dylan sang- 'when you aitn got nothing, you got nuthin to loose'
That is a lesson the tories never learned & one day the worm turns.
How do you expect someone on £15k a year to be able to buy things and better themselves?
How would you like to be a student coming out of Uni with a £50 -60 k debt and very little prospect of getting a job that will get you out of debt. |
And if you cannot you do not. |  | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:07 - Jun 28 with 5919 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 16:10 - Jun 28 by lowhouseblue |
in what way did corbyn avoid "more selfish policies that benefit individuals and don't demand the types of sacrifice needed to properly fund and take care of the parts of society that need it"? his promise to his supporters was: I'm going to give you everything you want and it won't cost you a penny, someone else will pay. |
It wasn't though. What part of "costed" and "not costed" did you not understand?!
You are more a Tory than Glassers now. Why don't you just admit it?
Corbyn has won more support than you could ever imagine and you hate it.
Accept it or leave. It shouldn't be a difficult choice. | |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:16 - Jun 28 with 5908 views | stantheman |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:07 - Jun 28 by Dolly2.0 |
It wasn't though. What part of "costed" and "not costed" did you not understand?!
You are more a Tory than Glassers now. Why don't you just admit it?
Corbyn has won more support than you could ever imagine and you hate it.
Accept it or leave. It shouldn't be a difficult choice. |
He is temporarily popular. When people realise what he is really about the penny will drop. My guess he will not be remembered as the saviour of the labour party in 5 years time. | | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:18 - Jun 28 with 5904 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 21:40 - Jun 28 by HARRY10 |
"I have consistently since the election said that he did very well, that he got his tactics right, that he fronted a brilliant campaign. No one can argue with that. "
He fronted a brilliant campaign. Yes. he got his tactics right. No
In the snense that you as others are portraying this cult of the personality. Corbyn was good at what he did but almost all the decisions were not his. That is how politics (and business) works.
The Tories have said they were 'blown away' by the Labour campaign. That was partly due to Labour having begun organising for an election way back. Almost after the 2015 election.
Whilst the Tories had the money and much of the printed media they did not have the feet on the ground. Much of what the media were putting out actually had a negative effect.
In short until we get away from this Britain's Got Talent approach to politics nothing much will change. Corbyn is part of change NOT the cause of it. Party leaders cannot act like medieval Kings where they rule by whim and wish.
Recent events have merely shown voters need to rally around something/one. A year ago it was the EU as the baddie and Farage as the goodie. This year those roles were taken by May and Corbyn.
Some would do well to remember the old maxim
History makes great men... NOT the other way round. |
"Corbyn was good at what he did but almost all the decisions were not his. That is how politics (and business) works."
Any proof of this or just words? | |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:18 - Jun 28 with 5891 views | HARRY10 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:07 - Jun 28 by Dolly2.0 |
It wasn't though. What part of "costed" and "not costed" did you not understand?!
You are more a Tory than Glassers now. Why don't you just admit it?
Corbyn has won more support than you could ever imagine and you hate it.
Accept it or leave. It shouldn't be a difficult choice. |
"his promise to his supporters was: I'm going to give you everything you want and it won't cost you a penny, someone else will pay. "
I'm not sure if he really said that
I think that's you just making up stuff
ps Who is paying the £1.6bn bribe to prop the Tories up ? They could have given every non Tory voter £50 and still had £70m to spare | | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 07:37 - Jun 29 with 5851 views | StokieBlue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:07 - Jun 28 by Dolly2.0 |
It wasn't though. What part of "costed" and "not costed" did you not understand?!
You are more a Tory than Glassers now. Why don't you just admit it?
Corbyn has won more support than you could ever imagine and you hate it.
Accept it or leave. It shouldn't be a difficult choice. |
They didn't cost it correctly. Just because they say it's costed doesn't make it an accurate costing. The nationalisation of the water companies wasn't costed in. The costs they did do were analysed and found to lead to the biggest tax burden since 1950.
Just because you don't like the people who did the analysis and deny their independence doesn't mean it was costed.
Find me a single costing in the manifesto for the 50bn+ needed to renationalise the water companies. Explain why McDonnell didn't think issuing bonds was increasing the national debt burden.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 07:38 - Jun 29 with 5849 views | StokieBlue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:18 - Jun 28 by HARRY10 |
"his promise to his supporters was: I'm going to give you everything you want and it won't cost you a penny, someone else will pay. "
I'm not sure if he really said that
I think that's you just making up stuff
ps Who is paying the £1.6bn bribe to prop the Tories up ? They could have given every non Tory voter £50 and still had £70m to spare |
He didn't say it but it was the direct implication of the manifesto.
Tax the 5%, you can have everything and won't have to pay.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:16 - Jun 29 with 5826 views | lowhouseblue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 23:07 - Jun 28 by Dolly2.0 |
It wasn't though. What part of "costed" and "not costed" did you not understand?!
You are more a Tory than Glassers now. Why don't you just admit it?
Corbyn has won more support than you could ever imagine and you hate it.
Accept it or leave. It shouldn't be a difficult choice. |
"accept it or leave" jeez, a few months slavishly following every mention of corbyn on facebook and you now get to tell other people what their politics should be. that's the arrogance that comes with being in a cult I guess.
anyone who criticises corbyn gets called a tory - which perfectly makes the point that you have been trying to deny in this thread.
and, seriously, if i need advice on politics i'll go to someone who could work out by himself that the election hadn't been moved to the friday. I regret correcting you now. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:22 - Jun 29 with 5814 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:16 - Jun 29 by lowhouseblue |
"accept it or leave" jeez, a few months slavishly following every mention of corbyn on facebook and you now get to tell other people what their politics should be. that's the arrogance that comes with being in a cult I guess.
anyone who criticises corbyn gets called a tory - which perfectly makes the point that you have been trying to deny in this thread.
and, seriously, if i need advice on politics i'll go to someone who could work out by himself that the election hadn't been moved to the friday. I regret correcting you now. |
All those years of attending branch meetings, knocking doors and delivering leaflets and you are being told to leave the Labour Party by a bloke who hadn't heard of Jeremy Corbyn before 2015 and followed the political giant known as Russell Brand in the preceding years.
Oh the shame, |  |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:28 - Jun 29 with 5804 views | lowhouseblue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:22 - Jun 29 by GlasgowBlue |
All those years of attending branch meetings, knocking doors and delivering leaflets and you are being told to leave the Labour Party by a bloke who hadn't heard of Jeremy Corbyn before 2015 and followed the political giant known as Russell Brand in the preceding years.
Oh the shame, |
well labour did win the general election so you have to respect him for that I guess. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:38 - Jun 29 with 5794 views | m14_blue |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 22:50 - Jun 28 by vapour_trail |
You clearly missed lord buckethead. |
I particularly liked his policy on trident.
Basically, tell everyone you've renewed it = effective deterrent.
Don't actually renew it = billions saved.
And it's all secret anyway so no one will ever know... | | | |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 11:44 - Jun 29 with 5741 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Jeremy Corbyn is just a politician not the messiah on 08:22 - Jun 29 by GlasgowBlue |
All those years of attending branch meetings, knocking doors and delivering leaflets and you are being told to leave the Labour Party by a bloke who hadn't heard of Jeremy Corbyn before 2015 and followed the political giant known as Russell Brand in the preceding years.
Oh the shame, |
Yeah but on the plus side, I'm not a liar and a swerver. | |
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