| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:08 - Jul 18 with 5581 views | Steve_M |
Poor Owen, not only has he had to disown all of those pro-Chavez pieces about the socialist paradise in Venezuela but he's flip-flopped on Corbyn twice this year already.
The article shows his usual lack of rigorous analysis in place of wild leaps of logic. There are certainly cases where austerity has had an impact on the life circumstances of individuals, certainly wantonly in some of them, but to make that into a causal, generalised case is illiterate. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:09 - Jul 18 with 5575 views | blue_oyster |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:04 - Jul 18 by ElderGrizzly |
How many people do you watch in their bedrooms? :) |
Ha! Good spot. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:09 - Jul 18 with 5576 views | StokieBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:04 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
In less than a decade? Really? have you got any stats to back that up? |
Was the slowdown in life expectancy increases between 2004 and 2008 down to Labour austerity?
Of course it wasn't because it's a massive complex issue with a huge number of variables.
SB |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:12 - Jul 18 with 5559 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 12:59 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
No, it's really not because life expectancy isn't guaranteed to always increase at an ever higher rate. It's a massively complex subject and to boil it down to a single point which happens to suit your political agenda is dumbing things down to a ridiculous level.
If you want to ask why things are slowing down can you explain why they slowed down between 2004 and 2008 under Labour?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40608256
SB |
Well I've just read the article you linked. Maybe I missed something, but where does it say anything about it slowing down under Labour?
And if it did - 4 YEARS?!?! REALLY?!? You think 4 years of government policies can slow down life expectancy?!?
You're getting all upset about Owen Jones, but he's just reporting Sir Michael Marmot.
From the article YOU LINKED:
"University College London expert Sir Michael Marmot said he was "deeply concerned" by the situation, calling it "historically highly unusual".
He said it was "entirely possible" austerity was to blame and said the issue needed looking at urgently." |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:14 - Jul 18 with 5553 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:01 - Jul 18 by blue_oyster |
One thing I've noticed is the number of people that now take a glass of water to bed with them, as they get thirsty during the night. I suspect this is wholly to do with the increased amount of unnecessary salt in food. |
You notice a lot of people going to bed with a glass of water? Binoculars or telescope? | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:16 - Jul 18 with 5547 views | StokieBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:12 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Well I've just read the article you linked. Maybe I missed something, but where does it say anything about it slowing down under Labour?
And if it did - 4 YEARS?!?! REALLY?!? You think 4 years of government policies can slow down life expectancy?!?
You're getting all upset about Owen Jones, but he's just reporting Sir Michael Marmot.
From the article YOU LINKED:
"University College London expert Sir Michael Marmot said he was "deeply concerned" by the situation, calling it "historically highly unusual".
He said it was "entirely possible" austerity was to blame and said the issue needed looking at urgently." |
Clearly in the graph you can see the slow down between 2004 and 2008.
You seem to think that less than 7 years can slow down life expectancy and that austerity is a major cause. Do those 3 years make such a huge difference? In fact you could argue that life expectancy slow down would lag due to changes made previously affecting the final life expectancy.
"Entirely possible" isn't what Owen Jones said. He's not reporting him, he's twisting him all over the show. Marmot didn't draw a conclusion and the fact remains that there are many reasons behind any slowdown.
Why are you so angry?
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:17 - Jul 18 with 5537 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:07 - Jul 18 by ElderGrizzly |
Yes...
https://data.oecd.org/chart/4Tgh
You can go back 40 years or so with the data on the OECD website, but the last 10 years shows a slowing in almost every G20 country.
Bigger leaps in developing countries etc as they get better access to education, healthcare etc, but the rate begins to slow again
[Post edited 18 Jul 2017 13:10]
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I meant have you got any evidence to back up that we're eating more sugar, salt, fat etc than less than a decade ago? | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:20 - Jul 18 with 5529 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:07 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Because the article is indefensible.
It's cherry picking one thing out of a hugely complex issue and blaming it for the whole issue. To defend that type of pseudo-scientific analysis and the effect it will have of certain people reading the article is misguided in my opinion. You are of course free to see things however you wish.
I posted the article as an example of what I felt was a truly idiotic piece of journalism.
SB |
Well I've defended it, so it's not indefensible ;)
And anyway, as posted elsewhere, he's quoting someone who's studied this. The same quotes are in the BBC article you linked to. Why is this Owen Jones' fault? | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:20 - Jul 18 with 5526 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:12 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Well I've just read the article you linked. Maybe I missed something, but where does it say anything about it slowing down under Labour?
And if it did - 4 YEARS?!?! REALLY?!? You think 4 years of government policies can slow down life expectancy?!?
You're getting all upset about Owen Jones, but he's just reporting Sir Michael Marmot.
From the article YOU LINKED:
"University College London expert Sir Michael Marmot said he was "deeply concerned" by the situation, calling it "historically highly unusual".
He said it was "entirely possible" austerity was to blame and said the issue needed looking at urgently." |
"Entirely possible". Lots of things are entirely possible as CiL and Pazelle will tell you.
It doesn't mean you have the evidence to back it up and the Owen has lifted a small part of a much wider report. If you want unbiased views on it, look at the OECD data.
Btw - it was the graph that showed 4 years (at the top). I agree with you though, 4 years or 7 years is not enough to make a difference on this scale Owen is claiming.
He's taken a very complex issue and boiled it down to one political point, where he is "almost certain" it is the cause.
We can be almost certain about a lot of things. We just don't pop them into an article on a national website |  | | |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:25 - Jul 18 with 5511 views | blue_oyster |
The BBC, of course, is by no means left-wing at all. 'Is austerity to blame?' it asks, revealing its political position. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:25 - Jul 18 with 5505 views | chicoazul |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:04 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
In less than a decade? Really? have you got any stats to back that up? |
Ah of course. You get paid to sell that same cr@p dont you? |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:26 - Jul 18 with 5503 views | StokieBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:07 - Jul 18 by ElderGrizzly |
Yes...
https://data.oecd.org/chart/4Tgh
You can go back 40 years or so with the data on the OECD website, but the last 10 years shows a slowing in almost every G20 country.
Bigger leaps in developing countries etc as they get better access to education, healthcare etc, but the rate begins to slow again
[Post edited 18 Jul 2017 13:10]
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That's actually very interesting and highlights the complexity of the subject.
Virtually every western country has decreased including places like Germany where austerity is nowhere to be seen.
It's almost as if it's a really complex issue.
SB | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:26 - Jul 18 with 5502 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:17 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
I meant have you got any evidence to back up that we're eating more sugar, salt, fat etc than less than a decade ago? |
There is plenty out there and it is fairly obvious if you've been awake the last 10 or even 20 years.
We are all reliant on more convenience foods, which are higher in sugar, salt and fat than the alternatives. And we literally just eat more too.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10525107/Why-is-Britain-fatt
Owen might have a point underneath it all with healthcare, but the report he is referencing doesn't draw the conclusion he has. In fact it is very careful not to. | | | |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:28 - Jul 18 with 5499 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:20 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Well I've defended it, so it's not indefensible ;)
And anyway, as posted elsewhere, he's quoting someone who's studied this. The same quotes are in the BBC article you linked to. Why is this Owen Jones' fault? |
Correction.... you 'tried' to defend it. ;-)
The BBC is almost as left wing as that spiteful, bitter little troll. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:28 - Jul 18 with 5494 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:25 - Jul 18 by blue_oyster |
The BBC, of course, is by no means left-wing at all. 'Is austerity to blame?' it asks, revealing its political position. |
BBC not left wing?
.....hmmmm.
Edit: Apologies, I see you were being sarcastic. [Post edited 18 Jul 2017 13:29]
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:30 - Jul 18 with 5480 views | MJallday |
whenever i hear his name i think of Eoin Mclove from Father Ted
"ive no w1lly" |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:31 - Jul 18 with 5480 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:12 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Well I've just read the article you linked. Maybe I missed something, but where does it say anything about it slowing down under Labour?
And if it did - 4 YEARS?!?! REALLY?!? You think 4 years of government policies can slow down life expectancy?!?
You're getting all upset about Owen Jones, but he's just reporting Sir Michael Marmot.
From the article YOU LINKED:
"University College London expert Sir Michael Marmot said he was "deeply concerned" by the situation, calling it "historically highly unusual".
He said it was "entirely possible" austerity was to blame and said the issue needed looking at urgently." |
So 4 years doesnt have an affect, but 7 years does? (Well just 2 years of Conservative Government).
Thats a handy benchmark. [Post edited 18 Jul 2017 13:32]
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:34 - Jul 18 with 5470 views | mrshallisfit |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 12:59 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Even if there was a shred of truth.... it would still come back to this;
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You do know that this was a returned joke. The Tory Chief Secretary to the Treasury wrote the same note to James Callaghan the incoming Chancellor in the Labour Government of 1964. You have also swallowed the narrative hook line and sinker that it was all the Brown Government's fault for the economic collapse in 2008. We have been running up the national debt and borrowing levels way back to when we still had an Empire. |  | | |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:34 - Jul 18 with 5464 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:16 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Clearly in the graph you can see the slow down between 2004 and 2008.
You seem to think that less than 7 years can slow down life expectancy and that austerity is a major cause. Do those 3 years make such a huge difference? In fact you could argue that life expectancy slow down would lag due to changes made previously affecting the final life expectancy.
"Entirely possible" isn't what Owen Jones said. He's not reporting him, he's twisting him all over the show. Marmot didn't draw a conclusion and the fact remains that there are many reasons behind any slowdown.
Why are you so angry?
SB |
I think maybe he IS Owen Jones. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:40 - Jul 18 with 5445 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:34 - Jul 18 by mrshallisfit |
You do know that this was a returned joke. The Tory Chief Secretary to the Treasury wrote the same note to James Callaghan the incoming Chancellor in the Labour Government of 1964. You have also swallowed the narrative hook line and sinker that it was all the Brown Government's fault for the economic collapse in 2008. We have been running up the national debt and borrowing levels way back to when we still had an Empire. |
Many a true word said in jest.... many a true word said in jest.
Ah OK, Labour had nothing to do with running up a huge deficit. OK, no worries.
....I bet they didnt take us into an illegal war either. Money (and lives) well spent, aye. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:40 - Jul 18 with 5444 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:16 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Clearly in the graph you can see the slow down between 2004 and 2008.
You seem to think that less than 7 years can slow down life expectancy and that austerity is a major cause. Do those 3 years make such a huge difference? In fact you could argue that life expectancy slow down would lag due to changes made previously affecting the final life expectancy.
"Entirely possible" isn't what Owen Jones said. He's not reporting him, he's twisting him all over the show. Marmot didn't draw a conclusion and the fact remains that there are many reasons behind any slowdown.
Why are you so angry?
SB |
I'm not in the least bit angry (as I've mentioned before CAPS are for emphasis, not shouting).
You appear angry with Owen Jones though (even though pretty much the same points and quotes are made on the BBC).
Yes "entirely possible" isn't what Jones said. It's what the expert who has studied this said. Jones (and myself) are just going on that.
I'm sure there are lots of reasons for a slow down, but this expert thinks austerity could have had an impact. I'm not sure what's so objectionable about that. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:42 - Jul 18 with 5440 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:20 - Jul 18 by ElderGrizzly |
"Entirely possible". Lots of things are entirely possible as CiL and Pazelle will tell you.
It doesn't mean you have the evidence to back it up and the Owen has lifted a small part of a much wider report. If you want unbiased views on it, look at the OECD data.
Btw - it was the graph that showed 4 years (at the top). I agree with you though, 4 years or 7 years is not enough to make a difference on this scale Owen is claiming.
He's taken a very complex issue and boiled it down to one political point, where he is "almost certain" it is the cause.
We can be almost certain about a lot of things. We just don't pop them into an article on a national website |
What about the BBC article that Owen Jones had nothing to do with? | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:44 - Jul 18 with 5434 views | giant_stow |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:25 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
Ah of course. You get paid to sell that same cr@p dont you? |
chuckle; Dolly: left wing twtd campaigner and spokesman for the sugar industry all at once - tricky to pull that off. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:44 - Jul 18 with 5432 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:25 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
Ah of course. You get paid to sell that same cr@p dont you? |
WTF? You think I'm biased about this article because I make ads for Haribo?
That's a mental leap even for you. | |
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