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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time 12:27 - Jul 18 with 45599 viewsStokieBlue

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/18/austerity-cuts-life-expect

A truly stupid article.

SB

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:56 - Jul 20 with 4066 viewsDolly2.0

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:36 - Jul 20 by gibbsm1

This is not personal, please don't take it as so, but I think you have called on another odd example.

The New Statesmen has always had a slant towards socialism. The author here is an 'anti-austerity' campaigner, a career journalist with no background in Economics, statistics or government.

It's fine to read what he says, but it can't be quoted to support your argument. On reading this article there is virtually no content to it. It's all put together by content from other people such as Lamont.

We both agree that spending has increased overall? that is has fallen in certain areas? that fall is regrettable and damages people in the hear and now?

Presumably we disagree that the fall was ideological and not economically driven? that it is immoral for other generations to pick up this debt? that wealth transfer payments should be limited, driven by need and sustainable?


I literally picked the first article I came across. There are lots and lots of articles from various sources that say austerity exists. David Cameron called what was needed and he was about to implement, austerity.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:59 - Jul 20 with 4062 viewsWeWereZombies

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:17 - Jul 20 by gibbsm1

You make the point well. It's a good way of thinking of things. I would counter that by saying that trends over time suggest the very poorest are getting wealthier while excepting that this pace may be slower than we'd like.


Ah, so the penny hasn't dropped then. If you die prematurely then, at that point, you do tend to stop getting wealthier...

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:08 - Jul 20 with 4048 viewsgibbsm1

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:59 - Jul 20 by WeWereZombies

Ah, so the penny hasn't dropped then. If you die prematurely then, at that point, you do tend to stop getting wealthier...


we may be crossing into Philosophy!!!!
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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:10 - Jul 20 with 4033 viewsblue_oyster

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:56 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

I literally picked the first article I came across. There are lots and lots of articles from various sources that say austerity exists. David Cameron called what was needed and he was about to implement, austerity.


It's probably better to define 'austerity' and then establish if it exists, instead of just quoting other people with political interests who just say that it does.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:11 - Jul 20 with 4031 viewsWeWereZombies

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:08 - Jul 20 by gibbsm1

we may be crossing into Philosophy!!!!


Hence category error...yes, it's Masters v. Actuary...Guy Ritchie to direct?

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:16 - Jul 20 with 4011 viewsDolly2.0

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:10 - Jul 20 by blue_oyster

It's probably better to define 'austerity' and then establish if it exists, instead of just quoting other people with political interests who just say that it does.


Quoting other people like David Cameron you mean?

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:19 - Jul 20 with 3996 viewschicoazul

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:56 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

I literally picked the first article I came across. There are lots and lots of articles from various sources that say austerity exists. David Cameron called what was needed and he was about to implement, austerity.


There has been no 'austerity'. Only people who have been singled out for having their benefits taken away for political purposes.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:19 - Jul 20 with 3992 viewsGlasgowBlue

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:24 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

Cameron himself called it austerity!

Talking about what Dennis Healy did 40 years ago is whatabouterry in the extreme!

"Departmental budgets have been cut by an average of more than 20 per cent since 2010 (the Department for Communities and Local Government by more than 50 per cent) and more than £20bn of welfare cuts have been imposed (child benefit, for instance, is worth less than it was 17 years ago).

The consequences are visible to all in unaffordable housing, overcrowded schools, unrepaired roads, uncollected bins and closed libraries, gyms and children's centres."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/07/uk-has-endured-real-austerity


You're not reading what is written again Dollers. I'm not using the example of Denis Healy as a form of whatbouterry. Quite the opposite. I actually complimented the ;Labour Chancellor for making very tough decisions which saved the British economy.

I used Healy as an example of real austerity, which at the time was needed.

What the coalition and now the Tory government have implemented is austerity lite. The reason there have been large cuts to certain departments id because there have been other departments, such as Health and Overseas Development, which have been ring-fenced

As for quoting Cameron. I answered that in my reply to Oyster.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:22 - Jul 20 with 3984 viewscaught-in-limbo

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 10:33 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

Can lack of education really be an excuse anymore? There's far more education on healthy eating now than there ever has been (i.e. those Change 4 Life ads - something the coalition government got right).


There's very little reason why a government would seriously try to promote healthy eating especially in the future with privatised health provisions.

Ideally you want people to live healthily enough until they retire and then have a very short retirement period involving very costly medical support and then death.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:26 - Jul 20 with 3969 viewsblue_oyster

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:16 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

Quoting other people like David Cameron you mean?


Exactly someone like him.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:28 - Jul 20 with 3957 viewsGlasgowBlue

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:16 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

Quoting other people like David Cameron you mean?


You don't normally quote David Cameron when trying to prove something is true.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:39 - Jul 20 with 3937 viewsgibbsm1

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:11 - Jul 20 by WeWereZombies

Hence category error...yes, it's Masters v. Actuary...Guy Ritchie to direct?


you may (or of course may not) find this article of interest.

http://www.theactuary.com/features/2017/04/prolonging-the-longevity-trend/
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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:55 - Jul 20 with 3912 viewsWeWereZombies

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:39 - Jul 20 by gibbsm1

you may (or of course may not) find this article of interest.

http://www.theactuary.com/features/2017/04/prolonging-the-longevity-trend/


I'm sorry, I'll have to do more than skim read that later as I need to catch high tide within the next couple of hours but I cannot see any reference to telomeres in the article, without that consideration I find it a little lacking scientifically.

(Had to go to Wikipedia to check my spelling of telomeres as Google suggested 'omlettes'!)

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 15:52 - Jul 20 with 3885 viewsDolly2.0

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:19 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue

You're not reading what is written again Dollers. I'm not using the example of Denis Healy as a form of whatbouterry. Quite the opposite. I actually complimented the ;Labour Chancellor for making very tough decisions which saved the British economy.

I used Healy as an example of real austerity, which at the time was needed.

What the coalition and now the Tory government have implemented is austerity lite. The reason there have been large cuts to certain departments id because there have been other departments, such as Health and Overseas Development, which have been ring-fenced

As for quoting Cameron. I answered that in my reply to Oyster.


So you agree austerity does exist then?

The poster I was replying to said there was no austerity.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 15:55 - Jul 20 with 3872 viewsDolly2.0

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:28 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue

You don't normally quote David Cameron when trying to prove something is true.


If David Cameron described his policies as austerity, and someone backing the Tory position was saying austerity didn't exist, then yeah, of course I'm going to quote him. I'd be mad not to!

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 15:57 - Jul 20 with 3864 viewsGlasgowBlue

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 15:52 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

So you agree austerity does exist then?

The poster I was replying to said there was no austerity.


Not real austerity. No. Hence the reason why I cited austerity under Healy.

There have been small spending cuts in real terms whilst public spending has actually increased.

Osborne and Cameron never had the balls to do what Healy did.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:03 - Jul 20 with 3856 viewsDanTheMan

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 15:57 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue

Not real austerity. No. Hence the reason why I cited austerity under Healy.

There have been small spending cuts in real terms whilst public spending has actually increased.

Osborne and Cameron never had the balls to do what Healy did.


Is that per capita + taking into account inflation or are we just looking at raw X is bigger than Y style analysis?

Because that's often cited for everything by a string of Governments for "we are spending more!" when it doesn't take into account any of that stuff that actually matters.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:07 - Jul 20 with 3845 viewsStokieBlue

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:03 - Jul 20 by DanTheMan

Is that per capita + taking into account inflation or are we just looking at raw X is bigger than Y style analysis?

Because that's often cited for everything by a string of Governments for "we are spending more!" when it doesn't take into account any of that stuff that actually matters.


It should really be as a % of GDP to make any two data-points more fairly comparable.

SB

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:18 - Jul 20 with 3826 viewsGlasgowBlue

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:03 - Jul 20 by DanTheMan

Is that per capita + taking into account inflation or are we just looking at raw X is bigger than Y style analysis?

Because that's often cited for everything by a string of Governments for "we are spending more!" when it doesn't take into account any of that stuff that actually matters.


https://www.ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/fiscal_facts/public_spending_survey/c

edit. Good article on Healey and how well he handled the financial crisis.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/in-memory-of-denis-healey-saviour-of-the-b
[Post edited 20 Jul 2017 16:20]

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:20 - Jul 20 with 3815 viewsDolly2.0

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 15:57 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue

Not real austerity. No. Hence the reason why I cited austerity under Healy.

There have been small spending cuts in real terms whilst public spending has actually increased.

Osborne and Cameron never had the balls to do what Healy did.


You called it austerity lite. That's still a form of austerity - if it was worse 40 years ago it's neither here nor there. It exists. The poster I was replying to said there was none.

A small glass of beer is still beer.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 17:57 - Jul 20 with 3775 viewsgibbsm1

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 16:20 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

You called it austerity lite. That's still a form of austerity - if it was worse 40 years ago it's neither here nor there. It exists. The poster I was replying to said there was none.

A small glass of beer is still beer.


I stand by my 'no austerity' comment in the sense that public spending hasn't been cut. but this is part of the 'he said, she said' narrative that I want to avoid.

I could replace my 'austerity denial' with a catchphrase of 'spending hasn't been reduced' if that helps?

I would prefer not to store up debt problems for future generations (including ours). Reduce spending, reduce the role of the state in our lives. I would also go further with the private sector involvement in healthcare, but then there is no party I can choose that will help with this aim.

I am ideologically driven by low state spending. But that isn't related to my thoughts on it's impact on mortality.
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Owen Jones has outdone himself this on 20:40 - Jul 20 with 3744 viewsSuperfrans

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 17:57 - Jul 20 by gibbsm1

I stand by my 'no austerity' comment in the sense that public spending hasn't been cut. but this is part of the 'he said, she said' narrative that I want to avoid.

I could replace my 'austerity denial' with a catchphrase of 'spending hasn't been reduced' if that helps?

I would prefer not to store up debt problems for future generations (including ours). Reduce spending, reduce the role of the state in our lives. I would also go further with the private sector involvement in healthcare, but then there is no party I can choose that will help with this aim.

I am ideologically driven by low state spending. But that isn't related to my thoughts on it's impact on mortality.


I didn't actually think I would ever read someone arguing that blue isn't blue on here. But there you go. Wrong again.

The Givernment says it is austerity. Two Prime ministers, a chancellor (or two). It's austerity, it's insane to argue that we are not in a period of austerity. Utter madness.

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 20:42 - Jul 20 with 3744 viewsSuperfrans

Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:53 - Jul 20 by Dolly2.0

TWTD is a right wing website?!?


😉

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Owen Jones has outdone himself this on 21:30 - Jul 20 with 3727 viewsDolly2.0

Owen Jones has outdone himself this on 20:40 - Jul 20 by Superfrans

I didn't actually think I would ever read someone arguing that blue isn't blue on here. But there you go. Wrong again.

The Givernment says it is austerity. Two Prime ministers, a chancellor (or two). It's austerity, it's insane to argue that we are not in a period of austerity. Utter madness.


Quite. Even Glassers admits it's austerity (just not as austerity as Dennis Healy 40 years ago, though why that's relevant I'm not sure).


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Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:53 - Mar 27 with 1492 viewsJ2BLUE

He's on Sky News at the moment. Speaks with no interruptions and then shouts his opponent down.

Complete cretin. Ridiculously smug and arrogant.

Truly impaired.
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