| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best 08:34 - Jul 21 with 9186 views | unstableblue |
How can Davis and his team enter negotiations without a calculation method or clear point of view on the costs incurred by Europe for our exit.
Farcical.
Falling at the first hurdle.
Even if it was only 50bn - half Frances expectation - then that humiliates the Leave campaigns 350million a week to the NHS. And now it is proving that Brexit will cost and harm the NHS.
This misadventure needs to stop. We look like bafoons, and we're damaging our country for decades.
Are people still defending their Brexit decision?!? How. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 08:37 - Jul 21 with 6122 views | MJallday |
clearly youve never been to a government meeting
one of 3 things tends to happen
1) you go into one with an agenda and the meeting never actually discusses that agenda
2) you go into one with an agenda and you never agree on anything
3) you go into one without an agenda and you end up talking about something that is ultimately unrelated
you generally never go into one and discuss what you want to discuss and / or get the outcome you want - so far ive been trying 4 years. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 08:38 - Jul 21 with 6111 views | BelvedereBrunswick |
They have always had a position on leaving the EU, but would be ripped apart by the public if they let slip their actual motives. |  | | |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 08:48 - Jul 21 with 6074 views | RimmersBrace |
I don't know why so much emphasis is being put on a one-off leaving cost. I personally don't think we owe any thing but frankly a one off cost of £50bn is insignificant. It's just like paying our membership for another few years. Considering their will be a implementation period anyway it makes no odds. |  | | |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 08:53 - Jul 21 with 6056 views | blue_oyster |
What costs? |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:22 - Jul 21 with 6021 views | Guthrum |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 08:53 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster |
What costs? |
Not so much costs as ongoing expenditure to which the UK may or may not be already committed for a contribution. Hence the controversy about the size of any final settlement of liabilities. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:27 - Jul 21 with 6013 views | blue_oyster |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:22 - Jul 21 by Guthrum |
Not so much costs as ongoing expenditure to which the UK may or may not be already committed for a contribution. Hence the controversy about the size of any final settlement of liabilities. |
Exactly. To present it as costs is shameful and should be ignored. The EU will not be reasonable. | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:28 - Jul 21 with 6009 views | Cambonbleu |
I mean, I must be simplifying this massively but:
If they said "when we meet next month, we'd like to come to an agreement on the movement of people, Irish Border, Status of British people living in the EU and vice versa and the exit bill cost" surely you turn up to the meeting with a worst case position that you could agree to? I just feel David Davis and chums are dragging their heels, there's no way they'll agree a deal |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:51 - Jul 21 with 5964 views | Guthrum |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:27 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster |
Exactly. To present it as costs is shameful and should be ignored. The EU will not be reasonable. |
To let the UK off entirely would mean several EU projects/budgets having to take a sizeable hit (or other countries needing to compensate for the shortfall). Unsurprising they're fighting to retain their funding. | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:59 - Jul 21 with 5955 views | blue_oyster |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:51 - Jul 21 by Guthrum |
To let the UK off entirely would mean several EU projects/budgets having to take a sizeable hit (or other countries needing to compensate for the shortfall). Unsurprising they're fighting to retain their funding. |
You're talking about future agreements. We 'owe' them nothing, and are negotiating from an equal position. To pretend otherwise is being dishonest. | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 10:02 - Jul 21 with 5939 views | GavTWTD |
Has anyone detailed what this divorce settlement actually comprises of?
I was told yesterday that Crossrail II is being partly funded by the EU. I've found no evidence that that's true (or even if CR2 is happening), but surely we should have a list of projects that the EU is funding. I know that some sea defences are funded by the EU. Are these what makes up this settlement?
Once you have this list you either say, "yeah fair enough" and pay it or negotiate it. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 10:12 - Jul 21 with 5902 views | factual_blue |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 10:02 - Jul 21 by GavTWTD |
Has anyone detailed what this divorce settlement actually comprises of?
I was told yesterday that Crossrail II is being partly funded by the EU. I've found no evidence that that's true (or even if CR2 is happening), but surely we should have a list of projects that the EU is funding. I know that some sea defences are funded by the EU. Are these what makes up this settlement?
Once you have this list you either say, "yeah fair enough" and pay it or negotiate it. |
It's a bit like when you go shopping and Phil refuses to pay for the hobnobs ye asked you to get. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:13 - Jul 21 with 5850 views | Guthrum |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:59 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster |
You're talking about future agreements. We 'owe' them nothing, and are negotiating from an equal position. To pretend otherwise is being dishonest. |
Not entirely. We've made a commitment (as a Member) to funding these existing things. The only question is for how long during/after leaving the EU and what would be an appropriate settlement for these liabilities.
It's a logically reasonable position to say "not at all" and "none", but that removes a useful bargaining chip. Tho the threat of that may itself be a strong move. | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:14 - Jul 21 with 5840 views | chicoazul |
It's on the EU to tell the Brits the cost. With their independently thoroughly audited and fully verified accounts I am sure this wont be a problem for them will it. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:16 - Jul 21 with 5839 views | Bluefish |
Why are people making a fuss about a deal? The country voted for out and the only out on offer was completely out.
We have to follow the wishes of the majority that voted to cause great harm to the country. We can't try and soften it up to decrease the damage. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:28 - Jul 21 with 5810 views | blue_oyster |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:13 - Jul 21 by Guthrum |
Not entirely. We've made a commitment (as a Member) to funding these existing things. The only question is for how long during/after leaving the EU and what would be an appropriate settlement for these liabilities.
It's a logically reasonable position to say "not at all" and "none", but that removes a useful bargaining chip. Tho the threat of that may itself be a strong move. |
And what about the services we *won't* be using after we leave, that we have already paid for? As a net contributor to the EU, this is a larger amount. They owe us. It's amazing how people swallow the propaganda of the EU. | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:29 - Jul 21 with 5810 views | GavTWTD |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:16 - Jul 21 by Bluefish |
Why are people making a fuss about a deal? The country voted for out and the only out on offer was completely out.
We have to follow the wishes of the majority that voted to cause great harm to the country. We can't try and soften it up to decrease the damage. |
I really don't see a problem with what Vince Cable is proposing, and others before him.
Let May get the best deal possible and let the public decide whether we go with that or stay in the EU.
"Voter fatigue" really isn't enough of a reason not to do this. The original referendum was fought on no basis of facts, so present the two factual options and vote again. People had no idea what they were voting for, just slogans or lies.
Where's my hobnobs. | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:31 - Jul 21 with 5807 views | Herbivore |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:16 - Jul 21 by Bluefish |
Why are people making a fuss about a deal? The country voted for out and the only out on offer was completely out.
We have to follow the wishes of the majority that voted to cause great harm to the country. We can't try and soften it up to decrease the damage. |
The leave position wasn't clearly articulated at all, I don't think it's right to suggest that everyone who voted out wanted to be completely out on a full hard Brexit. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:33 - Jul 21 with 5801 views | gordon |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 10:02 - Jul 21 by GavTWTD |
Has anyone detailed what this divorce settlement actually comprises of?
I was told yesterday that Crossrail II is being partly funded by the EU. I've found no evidence that that's true (or even if CR2 is happening), but surely we should have a list of projects that the EU is funding. I know that some sea defences are funded by the EU. Are these what makes up this settlement?
Once you have this list you either say, "yeah fair enough" and pay it or negotiate it. |
For example, the EU has a pensions liability of about £64Billion - there has to be an agreement on the method for allocating a proportion to the UK: it could be by number of EU staff who are from UK, or by budget contribution, or by population. Some of the pensions liability may be from before the UK was a member. There's no precedent for making such a calculation, and with reasonable assumptions, it's possible to get quite different numbers.
As well as that there are some European institutions and agreements which we haven't decided yet to what extent we still want to be party too, or for how long, and so calculating for how long we should continue funding them for at the moment is impossible. |  | | |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:39 - Jul 21 with 5785 views | Guthrum |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:28 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster |
And what about the services we *won't* be using after we leave, that we have already paid for? As a net contributor to the EU, this is a larger amount. They owe us. It's amazing how people swallow the propaganda of the EU. |
Yes, the money (expensive, but not unaffordable) is actually one of the few good cards we have in our hand. This is all about bargaining for stuff we do want (e.g. trade concessions). | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:43 - Jul 21 with 5762 views | Herbivore |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:28 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster |
And what about the services we *won't* be using after we leave, that we have already paid for? As a net contributor to the EU, this is a larger amount. They owe us. It's amazing how people swallow the propaganda of the EU. |
What have we paid for that we won't be using that doesn't have an on going cost attached to it? | |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 12:09 - Jul 21 with 5730 views | J2BLUE |
You always start these tantrum threads and then never come back to answer any of the points put to you so why should anyone bother replying? |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 13:23 - Jul 21 with 5679 views | BlueBadger |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 12:09 - Jul 21 by J2BLUE |
You always start these tantrum threads and then never come back to answer any of the points put to you so why should anyone bother replying? |
In all afirness, he does this with his football blubs as well. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 13:29 - Jul 21 with 5669 views | GlasgowBlue |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 13:23 - Jul 21 by BlueBadger |
In all afirness, he does this with his football blubs as well. |
And his Trump blubs.
I'll be glad when the season starts and he can go back to starting his posts slagging Mick off. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 14:35 - Jul 21 with 5613 views | Pinewoodblue |
| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 10:02 - Jul 21 by GavTWTD |
Has anyone detailed what this divorce settlement actually comprises of?
I was told yesterday that Crossrail II is being partly funded by the EU. I've found no evidence that that's true (or even if CR2 is happening), but surely we should have a list of projects that the EU is funding. I know that some sea defences are funded by the EU. Are these what makes up this settlement?
Once you have this list you either say, "yeah fair enough" and pay it or negotiate it. |
Not sure why people compare this to a divorce as with that you divide your assets as well as your debts.
As for capital expenditure not sure why, if we are net contributors we have to pay them back our money.
Our negotiation position surely is we don't owe anything. |  |
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| To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 14:41 - Jul 21 with 5598 views | No9 |
Isn't it clear that to turn up without any idea what is needed to 'negotiate' you can whip up the uneducated in the media to damn Jonny Foreigner as being obstructive.
It is tem the UK taxpayer started to insist the incompetent tories paid into the kitty for this debacle.
Mr Davis claims to have 500 personnel on the case (doing what?) Wenhave no idea how many Mr Fox has but they are bound to be expanseive and Mr Johnson is just a plonker.
We are daft to put up with this. |  | | |
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