| Andre Dozzell 09:37 - Jul 21 with 10104 views | titanicclown |
What a player weve got in young Dozzer. Definitely one of England U19 best players in the Euros winning team.
To think a 16th place championship team may not use such an asset because of tactics concerns me.
I know theres games where Skuse will be needed but Dozzell has to play games now and if Mick refuses then it will be the final straw for me.
This lad is special and if developed properly could be worth 3 times the rest of the squad combined.
Dont balls this up Mick we dont want another Jordan Rhodes thanks.
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| Andre Dozzell on 09:48 - Jul 21 with 6867 views | Bluefish |
Just because you are brilliant at u19 level it doesn't mean you will continue the same same in the senior game. Hopefully Mick will manage Andre well.
England u19 reached the semi finals in 2010. Guess who our top scorer was.....?
90min.com/posts/5276117-where-are-they-now-looking-back-at-2010-s-england-u19-side-after-2017-class-win-euro-championship |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 09:53 - Jul 21 with 6831 views | Westcountryblue |
I completely agree. The boy is hugely talented and needs to be playing this season.
While i fully welcome the signing of Adeyemi, i was slightly surprised by it considering we had already signed Huws.
I think the same thing about Bish who just needs a run of competitive games to get back to his best after those problems with his shins. We also have Nydam and Downes who look very talented.
Personally, i'd be happy if the club moved Skuse, Hyam and Bru on. The only way this club is going to move forward is by bringing on young talented players like Dozzer, Bish, Nydam and Downes. |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:57 - Jul 21 with 6791 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Interesting to hear Dyer talking about him, seemed to think he would make a better player sitting a little deeper.
With Dozzell and Downes possibly coming through, I'm sure Hyam will be looking over his shoulder.
Good to potentially see Bishop, Hyam, Dozzell and Downes competing for places. And Nydam sounds like another one for the future. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 09:59 - Jul 21 with 6772 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:48 - Jul 21 by Bluefish |
Just because you are brilliant at u19 level it doesn't mean you will continue the same same in the senior game. Hopefully Mick will manage Andre well.
England u19 reached the semi finals in 2010. Guess who our top scorer was.....?
90min.com/posts/5276117-where-are-they-now-looking-back-at-2010-s-england-u19-side-after-2017-class-win-euro-championship |
Nice bit of context!! | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:00 - Jul 21 with 6762 views | Wickets |
I do agree we do need to see these younger players progress but at the same time we all want to watch a winning side, so Mick must and will play our best players. Tricky one for Mick. |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:03 - Jul 21 with 6727 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:00 - Jul 21 by Wickets |
I do agree we do need to see these younger players progress but at the same time we all want to watch a winning side, so Mick must and will play our best players. Tricky one for Mick. |
If youre good enough youre old enough.
Bishop - 21
Dozzell - 18
Downes - 18
Nydam - 17
Bishop should be classed as an established first teamer looking to re-establish himself after injury. I would say at 18 Downes and Dozzell should be looking to at least be on the bench.
Nydam at 17 probably more of a squad player for this season. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:04 - Jul 21 with 6721 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
I'm okay with Andre Dozzell biding his time and waiting for an opportunity in the first team when it's the likes of Huws and Adeyemi ahead of him. What I can't abide is us bringing in players like Coke, Douglas, Diagouraga who can possibly do a job as squad players occasionally, but ultimately are holding our young players back. When our first teamers are unavailable, if we have a promising youngster, they should have the chance to step in. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:05 - Jul 21 with 6719 views | BOjK |
"To think a 16th place championship team may not use such an asset because of tactics concerns me. "
We have a saying at work: "because of reasons".
It is basically used when communicating cross-function between teams of different skills to mean "We have perfectly good reasons not to do this thing. They are quite complicated and technical and I know you can't understand them at the moment, but that's just because of the skill-set you have and you haven't looked at this thing in the detail we have. I could explain the reasons to you, and you'd be able to understand them and then would agree with us, but we've got quite a lot to get through in this meeting so can you just take this on trust?".
It all works well if both sides trust each other.
Your use of " because of tactics" reminded me of that. But you are trying to shrink the considered opinion of an experienced and largely successful manager into a single word to try and hide the fact that he probably has a very valid set of arguments that you aren't prepared to address, rather than to speed a meeting along. [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 10:18]
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:08 - Jul 21 with 6691 views | Herbivore |
The kid seems a real talent but there's a difference between playing against other 18 year-olds and playing against experienced Championship players, especially playing in the middle of the park where it tends to be very physical and congested at this level. I think our best bet for this season is to largely use him as an impact sub when the game is more stretched, he looked great against Brizzle at home in that role, and then give him the odd start at home as the season progresses. Physically he's not ready to be playing week in and week out at this level and we need to manage him properly to get the best out of him and maximise his potential. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:11 - Jul 21 with 6667 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:03 - Jul 21 by Marshalls_Mullet |
If youre good enough youre old enough.
Bishop - 21
Dozzell - 18
Downes - 18
Nydam - 17
Bishop should be classed as an established first teamer looking to re-establish himself after injury. I would say at 18 Downes and Dozzell should be looking to at least be on the bench.
Nydam at 17 probably more of a squad player for this season. |
To really develop though, you need 15 to 20 games a season and preferably starting those games.
If they aren't going to get that here, they need to get out on loan. Getting 10 minutes here and there will do no-one any good. |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:13 - Jul 21 with 6642 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:11 - Jul 21 by ElderGrizzly |
To really develop though, you need 15 to 20 games a season and preferably starting those games.
If they aren't going to get that here, they need to get out on loan. Getting 10 minutes here and there will do no-one any good. |
I agree, the manager needs to have the nerve to play them. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:19 - Jul 21 with 6589 views | hoppy |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:48 - Jul 21 by Bluefish |
Just because you are brilliant at u19 level it doesn't mean you will continue the same same in the senior game. Hopefully Mick will manage Andre well.
England u19 reached the semi finals in 2010. Guess who our top scorer was.....?
90min.com/posts/5276117-where-are-they-now-looking-back-at-2010-s-england-u19-side-after-2017-class-win-euro-championship |
(with two goals)
You tinker. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:19 - Jul 21 with 6592 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:13 - Jul 21 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I agree, the manager needs to have the nerve to play them. |
The manager's job is to win games though, so if it weakens the team, he won't.
Mick's role is sadly short-termist in nature. | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:22 - Jul 21 with 6573 views | Heathlander |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:08 - Jul 21 by Herbivore |
The kid seems a real talent but there's a difference between playing against other 18 year-olds and playing against experienced Championship players, especially playing in the middle of the park where it tends to be very physical and congested at this level. I think our best bet for this season is to largely use him as an impact sub when the game is more stretched, he looked great against Brizzle at home in that role, and then give him the odd start at home as the season progresses. Physically he's not ready to be playing week in and week out at this level and we need to manage him properly to get the best out of him and maximise his potential. |
Andre is a year younger than my boy (went to same school). My lad was playing senior football in the SIL last year. The difference in stature to him and the other 'men' was noticeable. Andre is the same. A year later my lad has bulked up and filled out. He will be able to compete in size with the other players now.
So I reckon Andre will follow the same growth pattern and next season is when he will be of sufficient stature to tear up the championship. |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:25 - Jul 21 with 6547 views | BlueNomad |
| Andre Dozzell on 09:53 - Jul 21 by Westcountryblue |
I completely agree. The boy is hugely talented and needs to be playing this season.
While i fully welcome the signing of Adeyemi, i was slightly surprised by it considering we had already signed Huws.
I think the same thing about Bish who just needs a run of competitive games to get back to his best after those problems with his shins. We also have Nydam and Downes who look very talented.
Personally, i'd be happy if the club moved Skuse, Hyam and Bru on. The only way this club is going to move forward is by bringing on young talented players like Dozzer, Bish, Nydam and Downes. |
We need someone who can do the job given to Skuse |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:25 - Jul 21 with 6549 views | Westcountryblue |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:22 - Jul 21 by Heathlander |
Andre is a year younger than my boy (went to same school). My lad was playing senior football in the SIL last year. The difference in stature to him and the other 'men' was noticeable. Andre is the same. A year later my lad has bulked up and filled out. He will be able to compete in size with the other players now.
So I reckon Andre will follow the same growth pattern and next season is when he will be of sufficient stature to tear up the championship. |
He has such an intelligent footballing mind though. One way of accommodating Andre is to play him in a 5 man midfield, with Huws and Adeyemi alongside him.
Skuse has no place anywhere near out first team anymore. | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:29 - Jul 21 with 6525 views | dirtyboy |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:19 - Jul 21 by ElderGrizzly |
The manager's job is to win games though, so if it weakens the team, he won't.
Mick's role is sadly short-termist in nature. |
Has to be though doesn't it?
Playing all the youngsters will undoubtedly aid them, but will they be as competitive? Immediately no, long term yes. Danger of that immediate timeline is that we could quickly end up in a situation that's very difficult to get out of. |  | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:30 - Jul 21 with 6524 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:19 - Jul 21 by ElderGrizzly |
The manager's job is to win games though, so if it weakens the team, he won't.
Mick's role is sadly short-termist in nature. |
Thats a weak argument though, that doesnt take ability into account.
Look at Koeman, his job is to win games at a much more pressurised level that Micks, he is happy to play young players, both at Southampton and Everton.
Last season alone... Davies (18), Holgate (20), Lookman (19), Calvert Lewin (19).
Playing good young players doesnt equal losing games. Teddy Bishop came through as an 18 year old in the season we reached the play offs.
Yes its a risk, but rarely do you get any level of success without taking a calculated risk. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:32 - Jul 21 with 6504 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:22 - Jul 21 by Heathlander |
Andre is a year younger than my boy (went to same school). My lad was playing senior football in the SIL last year. The difference in stature to him and the other 'men' was noticeable. Andre is the same. A year later my lad has bulked up and filled out. He will be able to compete in size with the other players now.
So I reckon Andre will follow the same growth pattern and next season is when he will be of sufficient stature to tear up the championship. |
Im sure Dyer was saying that Dozzell had bulked up over the past year. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:34 - Jul 21 with 6484 views | solemio |
Your last sentence greatly weakens your argument, titanicclown. | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:38 - Jul 21 with 6468 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:30 - Jul 21 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Thats a weak argument though, that doesnt take ability into account.
Look at Koeman, his job is to win games at a much more pressurised level that Micks, he is happy to play young players, both at Southampton and Everton.
Last season alone... Davies (18), Holgate (20), Lookman (19), Calvert Lewin (19).
Playing good young players doesnt equal losing games. Teddy Bishop came through as an 18 year old in the season we reached the play offs.
Yes its a risk, but rarely do you get any level of success without taking a calculated risk. |
It's not my argument, it's Mick's reality and what he has done in the past.
Sometimes the youngsters will need a lucky break to get into the team and once there, they need to play well to stay there.
Mick has played young players who are ready, as shown in Kenlock, Webster, Emmanuel (less so), Ward etc
For example, to play Dozzell or Bishop right now, you probably aren't playing Huws. Is that an improvement? Probably not.
That's Mick's problem and can be replicated across the team in a position where players like Ndyam, Morris, Downes need minutes. Who do they replace and are they better? | | | |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:40 - Jul 21 with 6460 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:22 - Jul 21 by Heathlander |
Andre is a year younger than my boy (went to same school). My lad was playing senior football in the SIL last year. The difference in stature to him and the other 'men' was noticeable. Andre is the same. A year later my lad has bulked up and filled out. He will be able to compete in size with the other players now.
So I reckon Andre will follow the same growth pattern and next season is when he will be of sufficient stature to tear up the championship. |
Yep - the thing holding Andre back at the moment is his physical size / strength.
An incident at Wigan away summed it up... Andre was on the ball, bigger stronger Wigan player out-muscled him and took the ball off him. Andre then grabbed his shirt to stop him getting away and was promptly booked. |  |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:43 - Jul 21 with 6437 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:38 - Jul 21 by ElderGrizzly |
It's not my argument, it's Mick's reality and what he has done in the past.
Sometimes the youngsters will need a lucky break to get into the team and once there, they need to play well to stay there.
Mick has played young players who are ready, as shown in Kenlock, Webster, Emmanuel (less so), Ward etc
For example, to play Dozzell or Bishop right now, you probably aren't playing Huws. Is that an improvement? Probably not.
That's Mick's problem and can be replicated across the team in a position where players like Ndyam, Morris, Downes need minutes. Who do they replace and are they better? |
You could argue that Mick is actually under no pressure.
he is in the final year of his contract, and at the end of last season he wasnt even sure whether he wanted to stay.
...so in reality, what has he got to lose? Not a lot.
I would say that Bishop was as good as Huws when fit. Dozzell or Downes could replace Skuse.
I'm not saying they should ALL be in the first team at the same time, but at least one of them should be (if fit) and the other two coming off the bench. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:47 - Jul 21 with 6414 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:05 - Jul 21 by BOjK |
"To think a 16th place championship team may not use such an asset because of tactics concerns me. "
We have a saying at work: "because of reasons".
It is basically used when communicating cross-function between teams of different skills to mean "We have perfectly good reasons not to do this thing. They are quite complicated and technical and I know you can't understand them at the moment, but that's just because of the skill-set you have and you haven't looked at this thing in the detail we have. I could explain the reasons to you, and you'd be able to understand them and then would agree with us, but we've got quite a lot to get through in this meeting so can you just take this on trust?".
It all works well if both sides trust each other.
Your use of " because of tactics" reminded me of that. But you are trying to shrink the considered opinion of an experienced and largely successful manager into a single word to try and hide the fact that he probably has a very valid set of arguments that you aren't prepared to address, rather than to speed a meeting along. [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 10:18]
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Interesting point.
But if you take that view all the time, we lose our right to question the manager.
Football is nothing without opinions.... and we have plenty of time to discuss reasons if Mick wants to go into detail. | |
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| Andre Dozzell on 10:48 - Jul 21 with 6397 views | Herbivore |
| Andre Dozzell on 10:43 - Jul 21 by Marshalls_Mullet |
You could argue that Mick is actually under no pressure.
he is in the final year of his contract, and at the end of last season he wasnt even sure whether he wanted to stay.
...so in reality, what has he got to lose? Not a lot.
I would say that Bishop was as good as Huws when fit. Dozzell or Downes could replace Skuse.
I'm not saying they should ALL be in the first team at the same time, but at least one of them should be (if fit) and the other two coming off the bench. |
That's why you're not a manager. You need balance and a decent blend of youth and experience. If it was as easy as dropping Skuse, who reads the game as well as anyone at this level, for an unproven youngster and it having no noticeable impact on our performances I'm pretty sure that's what we'd be doing. Central midfield is a tough gig, you can't just throw a bunch of kids in there and hope for the best. | |
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