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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... 17:41 - Jul 22 with 19869 viewsunstableblue

In fact perhaps we all should.

We're all involved in a farce, and the denial of the many is really going to damage us all. There are still a number of people on this board who regularly post rubbish about the realities of Brexit, it's time to wake up.

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-abo

Poll: With Freddie leaving, who is the striker in the McKenna song “xxx in attack”?

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AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! on 09:58 - Jul 23 with 4769 viewsNo9

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! on 09:53 - Jul 23 by gazzer1999

I knew who took us in, didn't mean that I agreed with it, remember it was a common market of trading nations.
I also knew that we ended up over producing food and were prevented from selling it cheap to ourselves and then giving it away to the soviet union.


Wrong on both points
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:59 - Jul 23 with 4771 viewsDolly2.0

Met up with the gang for the first time in a while last night, and talk briefly got onto Brexit. One of my mates, who's a city banker, reckons it's a disaster.

He said banks like Deutsche Bundesbank will relocate from London because they won't need offices here anymore - and this will see a loss of 20,000 jobs. Not just people who work there, but people in the coffee and sandwich shops and bars that service all these people.

Poll: Be honest, how many times have you played the clip of Noel Hunt's goal?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:01 - Jul 23 with 4765 viewsNo9

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:47 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue

No point responding to it, because it's as warped as some elements of the article in the OP are. Everyone's getting entrenched. Two opinion pieces highlighting the shallow stupidity of the whole affair.

This 'view from Germany' seems fairly perverse; I suspect it's not representative of the real view at all (certainly doesn't reflect the views of Germans I've spoken to). Just a few points that make no sense:
- they see more EU workers in Britain than Brits in the EU as being in our favour. That's counter intuitive: we're the ones that rely on those EU workers: we have a greater dependency and therefore will feel the effects more.
- they somehow leap from Junker's (bleedingly obvious) statement that it's going to take a while to untangle the legislation, as 'evidence' that it means there's too much legislation. That's not a logic leap. And it also completely ignores the Great Repeal Bill.
- Then it calls for mass abolishment of regulations. That's the fear - many of these are there to ease trading, to protect consumers, to protect citizens, to protect the environment. I'm all for less regulation; but we've given power to people in the Commons and Lords who won't give a sh*t about much of these things.

You know when you see the Economist and Spectator what to expect - as said before, both are essentially propaganda.


Every time we switch on & there is anything about the EU it is clear the tories have no interst in what the people think or voted for (other than doing the will of the British people) but that they will dance to the tune of the corporations no matter what the people think.
I am not sure how many tory MP's have to make this point before it sinks in?
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AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! on 10:02 - Jul 23 with 4763 viewsSwansea_Blue

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! on 09:37 - Jul 23 by No9

Did your mother also tell you that it was the tories that took the UK into the EU?
& that the Wilson referendum took place later?


Quite a nice summary here on how we helped shape and promote the EU, persuaded others to join, promoted expansion, etc...

It's one of the of those stream of tweets so you have to click on it to bring up the whole thread (people probably know that, I'm just a tweeterphobe).


Poll: Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:02 - Jul 23 with 4764 viewsNo9

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:59 - Jul 23 by Dolly2.0

Met up with the gang for the first time in a while last night, and talk briefly got onto Brexit. One of my mates, who's a city banker, reckons it's a disaster.

He said banks like Deutsche Bundesbank will relocate from London because they won't need offices here anymore - and this will see a loss of 20,000 jobs. Not just people who work there, but people in the coffee and sandwich shops and bars that service all these people.


An intersting bit in one of the journals a few weeks ago - these firms looking to move have found out just how much cheaper reants are outside the UK
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:05 - Jul 23 with 4755 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:01 - Jul 23 by No9

Every time we switch on & there is anything about the EU it is clear the tories have no interst in what the people think or voted for (other than doing the will of the British people) but that they will dance to the tune of the corporations no matter what the people think.
I am not sure how many tory MP's have to make this point before it sinks in?


Profit first, people second. That's what we've voted for. And probably consistently for about the last 40 years to be fair. Thatcher turned us into a nation of selfish, faux capitalists where it's seen as a badge of honour to work longer for less. The French of got it right - full scale riots if you threaten to reduce their lunch two hours by an hour.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2017 10:11]

Poll: Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:09 - Jul 23 with 4748 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:59 - Jul 23 by Dolly2.0

Met up with the gang for the first time in a while last night, and talk briefly got onto Brexit. One of my mates, who's a city banker, reckons it's a disaster.

He said banks like Deutsche Bundesbank will relocate from London because they won't need offices here anymore - and this will see a loss of 20,000 jobs. Not just people who work there, but people in the coffee and sandwich shops and bars that service all these people.


Win, win. Get's rid of those greedy bankers and all those pesky foreigners who serve them coffee .

We'll have to see - I expect a LOT of noise from the financial sector to get concessions from the govt to stay. Who knows what will eventually happen.

Poll: Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:14 - Jul 23 with 4736 viewsSteve_M

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:09 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue

Win, win. Get's rid of those greedy bankers and all those pesky foreigners who serve them coffee .

We'll have to see - I expect a LOT of noise from the financial sector to get concessions from the govt to stay. Who knows what will eventually happen.


And car manufacturers. Anyone with enough of a vocal lobby group will gain some concessions from the UK government. Those small businesses, integrated into European supply chains that lack the voice won't.

Then we'll re-create Euratom, and European regulatory agencies in order to allow business regulatory convergence at great cost.

Poll: When are the squad numbers out?
Blog: Cycle of Hurt

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:16 - Jul 23 with 4735 viewsNo9

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:09 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue

Win, win. Get's rid of those greedy bankers and all those pesky foreigners who serve them coffee .

We'll have to see - I expect a LOT of noise from the financial sector to get concessions from the govt to stay. Who knows what will eventually happen.


It has been very clear since Mr Osborne gave corporations / business £ bns in 2013 -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handsh

Since then companies have held the tories to ransom to the extent we are now almost buying jobs and it will get worse as companies demand being compensated for loss of business as we leave the EU.

Already this government is capitulating by reducing the regulations we need to keep us somewhat secure from the finacial crooks
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:24 - Jul 23 with 4731 viewsKeaneish

The only people I see or hear having a "public nervous breakdown" are those who repeat journalists doom mongering. Anyone who voted for-Brexit and thought it was going to be instantly better is a fool. The country will take one step back economically to move forward two sociologically and it's about time people started printing the positives rather than the negatives to move this country forward and public opinion on the right path.

Poll: Who would be your managerial preference between these two?
Blog: [Blog] £2.65 Million and Waiting?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:27 - Jul 23 with 4724 viewsDolly2.0

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:24 - Jul 23 by Keaneish

The only people I see or hear having a "public nervous breakdown" are those who repeat journalists doom mongering. Anyone who voted for-Brexit and thought it was going to be instantly better is a fool. The country will take one step back economically to move forward two sociologically and it's about time people started printing the positives rather than the negatives to move this country forward and public opinion on the right path.


People should just print the truth.

The truth, from what I can see, is mostly negative.

Poll: Be honest, how many times have you played the clip of Noel Hunt's goal?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:36 - Jul 23 with 4720 viewsNo9

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:24 - Jul 23 by Keaneish

The only people I see or hear having a "public nervous breakdown" are those who repeat journalists doom mongering. Anyone who voted for-Brexit and thought it was going to be instantly better is a fool. The country will take one step back economically to move forward two sociologically and it's about time people started printing the positives rather than the negatives to move this country forward and public opinion on the right path.


I have been waiting for a long while to see what the positives might be, so far I have seen none.
The idea that this will improve life for the ordinary person is daft when the government make sit clear the main reason for leaving is to lower your quality of life so the few can make more money - where is the positive in that ?
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 11:07 - Jul 23 with 4701 viewsKeaneish

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:36 - Jul 23 by No9

I have been waiting for a long while to see what the positives might be, so far I have seen none.
The idea that this will improve life for the ordinary person is daft when the government make sit clear the main reason for leaving is to lower your quality of life so the few can make more money - where is the positive in that ?


There's enough people in this country who have a voice to prevent that from happening. I thought the whole point behind Brexit was a new beginning not to maintain the status quo. If people have an issue with free market ideologies yet are happy to uphold them then its theirs to squander.

Poll: Who would be your managerial preference between these two?
Blog: [Blog] £2.65 Million and Waiting?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 11:20 - Jul 23 with 4697 viewsNo9

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 11:07 - Jul 23 by Keaneish

There's enough people in this country who have a voice to prevent that from happening. I thought the whole point behind Brexit was a new beginning not to maintain the status quo. If people have an issue with free market ideologies yet are happy to uphold them then its theirs to squander.


According to the referendum the idea of the vote was to stay in or to leave the EU - nothing else.

The Brexiteers want out completely as stated day in day out.

Business now says that isn't what they want

You will get what business wants not what you want. The omens are not good for anyone other than the wealthy
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 20:04 - Jul 23 with 4629 viewsunstableblue

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 08:27 - Jul 23 by Pinewoodblue

Strange how neither the original poster, nor any of regular remoaners, have commented on this article.


Happy to comment, the Spectator article doesn't provide any detail. And doesn't grasp the challenge ahead.

The supporting economist articles that this leader is based upon, goes into significant detail onto the potential options. Pros/cons, realities.

Clearly the Norwegian option won't suit Brexiteers, turkey option won't suit business. The Europeans won't give is the Swiss option which might be preferred.

I just want some detail, and some facts on the damage.

I complete agree that perhaps in 15-20 years we might reap benefit of Brexit. I agree Europe has a lot to lose.

But I just feel concerned by how poorly we are going about it - and how unaccountable project Leave is? Where has that assembled 'political party' gone? They got equal media cover from the demonised BBC, and biased coverage from the mainstream press. And now they have disappeared into the mess of the UK political system.

Poll: With Freddie leaving, who is the striker in the McKenna song “xxx in attack”?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 20:56 - Jul 23 with 4617 viewsFreddies_Ears

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 10:24 - Jul 23 by Keaneish

The only people I see or hear having a "public nervous breakdown" are those who repeat journalists doom mongering. Anyone who voted for-Brexit and thought it was going to be instantly better is a fool. The country will take one step back economically to move forward two sociologically and it's about time people started printing the positives rather than the negatives to move this country forward and public opinion on the right path.


I don't see how becoming racist, insular rednecks moves anything forward "sociologically".
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What about the.. on 21:05 - Jul 23 with 4596 viewsunstableblue

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 22:27 - Jul 22 by The_Last_Baron

The Economist, along with The New European, is a pro-EU propaganda paper. If we left the EU and everything was going magnificently twelve months later they'd still be incredibly negative about the whole thing.

We had a free and fair vote. The Leave side of the argument won. End of story, we're leaving the European Union. Long live Europe.


...FT, NY Times, South China Morning Post, etc etc etc

Are they also pro-European, or are they just reporting that at present we don't have a plan, and we need one.

Poll: With Freddie leaving, who is the striker in the McKenna song “xxx in attack”?

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 21:05 - Jul 23 with 4597 viewsJohnTy

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 20:56 - Jul 23 by Freddies_Ears

I don't see how becoming racist, insular rednecks moves anything forward "sociologically".


I am still trying to figure out how you move forward or indeed go in any direction "sociologically"
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 21:12 - Jul 23 with 4591 viewsRyorry

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 08:13 - Jul 23 by No9

Can't read the article because I have not subscribed.


I've "reached (my) article limits" apparently.

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 21:48 - Jul 23 with 4582 viewsStokieBlue

Tories making a right pigs ear of the whole thing at the moment.

However Labour don't seem to have a much better angle:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/23/labour-would-leave-single-marke

Clearly it's incredibly unlikely the EU will let us leave the single market and have a free trade agreement which mirrors it.

Rubbish all around really.

SB

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 21:57 - Jul 23 with 4574 viewsStokieBlue

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:59 - Jul 23 by Dolly2.0

Met up with the gang for the first time in a while last night, and talk briefly got onto Brexit. One of my mates, who's a city banker, reckons it's a disaster.

He said banks like Deutsche Bundesbank will relocate from London because they won't need offices here anymore - and this will see a loss of 20,000 jobs. Not just people who work there, but people in the coffee and sandwich shops and bars that service all these people.


Technically they don't need offices here now. DB have signed a 25 year lease on a new building on Moorgate. They will have to move EUR clearing to within the EU but seems unlikely they would shell out so much and then walk away from London for other trading given the infrastructure here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/23/deutsche-bank-commits-london-secu

Of course, if Brexit is a complete balls-up they might write it off and try and sub-let the lease if possible. Certainly the way things are looking at the moment the job losses are going to be substantial with the knock-on effects you describe also being substantial.

Hopefully common sense will prevail with the whole thing and a sensible "brexit" will be sorted out which means things are hardly any different to how they were before with regards to basically everything.

SB
[Post edited 23 Jul 2017 22:03]

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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 22:43 - Jul 23 with 4551 viewsBlueorder

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 08:20 - Jul 23 by bluejacko

This is the Brexit i want,a reasonable set of points to take to the talks dont you think?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/17/theresa-mays-brexit-speech-full

There was a Britain before the EU and i am fairly sure there will be one after our exit!


Is the Britain you want the same as the Britain we'll get?
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AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! on 07:54 - Jul 24 with 4505 viewsSwn98

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! on 09:58 - Jul 23 by No9

Wrong on both points


Wrong on both points?
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:20 - Jul 24 with 4490 viewsNo9

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 21:48 - Jul 23 by StokieBlue

Tories making a right pigs ear of the whole thing at the moment.

However Labour don't seem to have a much better angle:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/23/labour-would-leave-single-marke

Clearly it's incredibly unlikely the EU will let us leave the single market and have a free trade agreement which mirrors it.

Rubbish all around really.

SB


Yesterday Liam Fox made it clear that we have to leave first before we can do anything about renegotiating any new trade deal - which he thinks is they will fall over themselves to agree to ?

The nes that Rees-Mogg is now second favorite to be the enxt tory leader shows how much to the right the tories are still moving.

Labour need a new leader (K Starmer?) with a new modern vision?
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Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:31 - Jul 24 with 4485 viewsStokieBlue

Brexiteers should read this Economist leader... on 09:20 - Jul 24 by No9

Yesterday Liam Fox made it clear that we have to leave first before we can do anything about renegotiating any new trade deal - which he thinks is they will fall over themselves to agree to ?

The nes that Rees-Mogg is now second favorite to be the enxt tory leader shows how much to the right the tories are still moving.

Labour need a new leader (K Starmer?) with a new modern vision?


I know you look to turn every post into a Tory bash but why have you taken article about Corbyn wanting an impossible free trade agreement and turned it into one about Fox?

They are both rubbish.

SB

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