| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:30 - Jul 23 with 2738 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:28 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
thats not strictly accurate. he can be moved (from what is being reported)
nethertheless - at the risk of going all "taxi driver" - if it was my child was in hospital, and that hospital were refusing to treat them, but another hospital said they would - then there isnt a doctor, nurse, judge or security guard that could stop me removing them to get them
of course, other options should be considered - for example, bringing other medical experts to him.
to be clear - id die for my children, id argue most parents would - so the "threat" of criminal action really doesnt bother me in the slightest.
in the interests of fairness, even IF he could be moved, and even IF he could be treated - he would never have the same quality of life that he should have as a little boy
the case is heartbreaking - so its easy to see why people get emotional over it. |
You would need people with extremely specialist training to move him. Those people are generally aware of the risks involved in such a transfer, both medical and legal, and wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, I suspect. |  |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:32 - Jul 23 with 2735 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:27 - Jul 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
What level of recovery have the Americans said they MIGHT be able to bring though?
As the kid is currently unable to breath, see, move or hear anything by himself as far as I'm aware |
The US doctor has said that this treatment is not curative, at best you're looking at temporary improvement of some symptoms. And that's assuming that he survives the transfer, subsequent stabilisation post-transfer and the unproven and experimental treatment is actually appropriate for his particular strain of this disease. | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:33 - Jul 23 with 2735 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:30 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
You would need people with extremely specialist training to move him. Those people are generally aware of the risks involved in such a transfer, both medical and legal, and wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, I suspect. |
agreed - otherwise i suspect that would have been done a long time ago.
what i dont get is the different in opinion between the americans and GOSH - although reading into it a bit, i guess its because the americans wnat to "experiment" to an extent.
do we know when "the ruling" is going to be? |  |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:37 - Jul 23 with 2726 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:33 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
agreed - otherwise i suspect that would have been done a long time ago.
what i dont get is the different in opinion between the americans and GOSH - although reading into it a bit, i guess its because the americans wnat to "experiment" to an extent.
do we know when "the ruling" is going to be? |
There's literally only the one chap who wants to try this experiment. And frankly I'm hugely dubious of his professional ethics in apparent being to keen to experiment on a terminally ill child. | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:42 - Jul 23 with 2718 views | gtsb1966 |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:32 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
The US doctor has said that this treatment is not curative, at best you're looking at temporary improvement of some symptoms. And that's assuming that he survives the transfer, subsequent stabilisation post-transfer and the unproven and experimental treatment is actually appropriate for his particular strain of this disease. |
Your first sentence makes it even more baffling to me why this is dragging on and on. Surely the courts should rule with the hospital once and for all. |  | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:48 - Jul 23 with 2705 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:42 - Jul 23 by gtsb1966 |
Your first sentence makes it even more baffling to me why this is dragging on and on. Surely the courts should rule with the hospital once and for all. |
Further evidence from some(I believe) French studies were uncovered, and I think it's only right to review things(as GOS requested) in that event. Things are further dragging on as the US doctor hadn't actually examined Charlie or read his notes prior to offering his unproven(and quite likely to be futile, even by own admission) treatments. He'll need to travel over, review, read the case notes and then appear in court to give evidence. The judiciary will then have to rule. [Post edited 23 Jul 2017 18:51]
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 19:43 - Jul 23 with 2672 views | LeoMuff |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:19 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
my opinion is that they are "playing god" by refusing to let him leave for treatment. thats quite simple - feel free to disagree - but im afraid you wont persuade me otherwise.
decisions like that are the parents decision, not the doctors and not the states - always.
From what is being reported - the americans think they have a chance - so why not take it?
as i said, it would be a bit different if they turned round and said "sorry, we agree with GOSH" - but they havent. |
Decisions like this are about what is best for Charlie, not the parents.
So if the child is in pain and suffering, which is what the staff at GOSH feel, we should dismiss the experts in the field and go with the parents and increase his trauma and suffering and fly to the states ?
Nobody is playing god, the decision Is about what is in his best interest and that is clearly not to put him through further pain. |  |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:11 - Jul 23 with 2654 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 19:43 - Jul 23 by LeoMuff |
Decisions like this are about what is best for Charlie, not the parents.
So if the child is in pain and suffering, which is what the staff at GOSH feel, we should dismiss the experts in the field and go with the parents and increase his trauma and suffering and fly to the states ?
Nobody is playing god, the decision Is about what is in his best interest and that is clearly not to put him through further pain. |
even if it might save his life?
the key word here is "might"
GOSH dont believe it. that much is evident.
id be sat here agreeing with every word you said if the americans had also agreed with what GOSH said - but (and i keep coming back to this) - they havent.
so what your left with is a judge making a decision. whether you like it or not - that is "playing god". | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:12 - Jul 23 with 2653 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:48 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
Further evidence from some(I believe) French studies were uncovered, and I think it's only right to review things(as GOS requested) in that event. Things are further dragging on as the US doctor hadn't actually examined Charlie or read his notes prior to offering his unproven(and quite likely to be futile, even by own admission) treatments. He'll need to travel over, review, read the case notes and then appear in court to give evidence. The judiciary will then have to rule. [Post edited 23 Jul 2017 18:51]
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he travelled over last week and flew back friday i believe.
i havent followed the latest on what has been said subsequently. | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:15 - Jul 23 with 2646 views | StokieBlue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:11 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
even if it might save his life?
the key word here is "might"
GOSH dont believe it. that much is evident.
id be sat here agreeing with every word you said if the americans had also agreed with what GOSH said - but (and i keep coming back to this) - they havent.
so what your left with is a judge making a decision. whether you like it or not - that is "playing god". |
Have they determined if he has severe brain damage?
SB |  |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:20 - Jul 23 with 2643 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:32 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
The US doctor has said that this treatment is not curative, at best you're looking at temporary improvement of some symptoms. And that's assuming that he survives the transfer, subsequent stabilisation post-transfer and the unproven and experimental treatment is actually appropriate for his particular strain of this disease. |
As GTSB says, that first sentence is damning enough for me.
Surely the courts have to rule with the hospital here. |  |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:21 - Jul 23 with 2639 views | tcblue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:11 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
even if it might save his life?
the key word here is "might"
GOSH dont believe it. that much is evident.
id be sat here agreeing with every word you said if the americans had also agreed with what GOSH said - but (and i keep coming back to this) - they havent.
so what your left with is a judge making a decision. whether you like it or not - that is "playing god". |
I think the point you're missing here is that the best children's hospital in the world has spent months caring for and assessing the child and have made it clear that, sad as it is, his disease is so advanced and horrible that he will never recover nor be well enough to even travel.
The fact that someone in America *whom has never seen him nor his records* has offered up some tenuous hope - this is what people should be outraged at.
Plus, the key word is "life", rather than "might". As in, what life would that be? |  | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 23:53 - Jul 23 with 2609 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:11 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
even if it might save his life?
the key word here is "might"
GOSH dont believe it. that much is evident.
id be sat here agreeing with every word you said if the americans had also agreed with what GOSH said - but (and i keep coming back to this) - they havent.
so what your left with is a judge making a decision. whether you like it or not - that is "playing god". |
It's nothing to save his life though. Even the experimenter has said that his treatment isn't curative. And once cerebral tissue os damaged, it's damaged. He will would likely never see, talk, walk or breathe unaided. | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 23:54 - Jul 23 with 2608 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 20:20 - Jul 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
As GTSB says, that first sentence is damning enough for me.
Surely the courts have to rule with the hospital here. |
I seem to recall the presiding judge uttered something to effect of 'the new evidence has got to be really something special'. | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 00:13 - Jul 24 with 2603 views | slump |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:58 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
in the gard case, one set of doctors has said theyve given up, others have said they havent. in this example, i would side with the parents.
in what youve said above , re : jehovahs witness - the doctors have said they can treat, but the parents would refuse. in this example, i would side with the doctors
i support any arrangement which would keep a child/person alive for the longest time possible. |
Despite the unknown ongoing suffering and subjecting your child to experimental treatment?
We don't treat our pets like this. It's simply not right, no matter how emotive it may be it seems that there is little compassion for the life that is being supported.
Crazy |  |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 08:12 - Jul 24 with 2560 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 00:13 - Jul 24 by slump |
Despite the unknown ongoing suffering and subjecting your child to experimental treatment?
We don't treat our pets like this. It's simply not right, no matter how emotive it may be it seems that there is little compassion for the life that is being supported.
Crazy |
I respect your opinion but If the choice is between a slim chance and death, there is no choice as far as I'm concerned | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 08:35 - Jul 24 with 2551 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 08:12 - Jul 24 by MJallday |
I respect your opinion but If the choice is between a slim chance and death, there is no choice as far as I'm concerned |
What about if it's the choice between a comfortable and dignified passing or yet further discomfort, indignity and no chance of curing or even improving it, which is what is happening here? | |
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| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 08:59 - Jul 24 with 2543 views | tcblue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 08:12 - Jul 24 by MJallday |
I respect your opinion but If the choice is between a slim chance and death, there is no choice as far as I'm concerned |
You're still skirting around the main crux of the problem though. If you knew that the slim chance would mean that any current suffering would be prolonged (without any benefit to your child), would you still be so sure? Because that's the reality of what these people are going through. | | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 09:08 - Jul 24 with 2535 views | No9 |
Hugely depressing indeed, a sad reflaction on modern England | | | |
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