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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars 08:09 - Jul 26 with 14405 viewsLord_Lucan

and now (by 2020) we will be taxed heavily on them.

By 2040 all new cars will have to be electric or hybrid.

If everyone had an electric car we will run out of power, we will need to build another 6 nuclear power stations.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:34 - Jul 26 with 2493 viewsNo9

&, Mr Grayling the transport secretary announced last week that some rail electrification will not go ahead because they can now use bi mode diesels

Also nothing to reduce the emmissions from HGV's
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:35 - Jul 26 with 2490 viewsNewcyBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:31 - Jul 26 by hype313

Hops if you're looking at cars 15 plate onwards then you must go for petrol as the engines are far more economical than they were a few years back.

Also with Diesels they need a decent run to get the economy, also if you don't do many miles you will face issues with filters clogging up.

I also think the govt are going to start hammering diesel owners very soon.


I certainly had some DPF issues causing lower MPG. The newer Focus has a manual DPF regeneration mode that you can do. My 12 plate one doesn't.

Did a 25 mins drive in 4th at 60mph and that cleared it all out.

I really need to give it a full service when I can be bothered to get underneath it.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:36 - Jul 26 with 2487 viewschicoazul

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:34 - Jul 26 by No9

&, Mr Grayling the transport secretary announced last week that some rail electrification will not go ahead because they can now use bi mode diesels

Also nothing to reduce the emmissions from HGV's


The entire world trade is basically built on diesel. Crops are laid by diesel tractors, harvested by diesel combines, driven to port by diesel trucks, loaded onto ships by diesel powered cranes, floated to customers by diesel powered ships.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:36 - Jul 26 with 2484 viewsHarry_Palmer

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:06 - Jul 26 by Deano69

Probably less power than all those cars charging at home and work, plus there's no loss of energy with cars power dissipating even when standing still doing nothing. Can you imagine how many batteries Lorries and Buses/Coaches will require, the additional weight the carry and as previously mentioned, the disposal of all those toxic batteries...

You can get 100mpg from petrol these days. I have just order a diesel which is a Euro 6 engine, dealer reckons (nothing scientific that i am aware of) its cleaner than petrol. Its a large 3 litre car with just 129 g/km and will do 60mpg.


100mpg from a petrol? are you sure about that? I don't think any diesel even comes close to that, a hybrid maybe.

Please enlighten as to which car achieves this as I will be making it my next purchase.
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:38 - Jul 26 with 2474 viewsStokieBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:31 - Jul 26 by chicoazul

They recommended people buy diesel. I myself bought one pretty much on that basis. *Now* they say diesels are bad for the environment. They were wrong.


That is not what they are saying.

They are saying they are bad for air pollution and human health, they are not saying they are bad for the environment - two completely different things.

I also bought a diesel, it's annoying I agree but they weren't wrong.

SB

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:38 - Jul 26 with 2474 viewshype313

I thought by 2040 that none of us will be driving cars anyway, just use an app when you need to get somewhere.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:40 - Jul 26 with 2467 viewschicoazul

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:38 - Jul 26 by StokieBlue

That is not what they are saying.

They are saying they are bad for air pollution and human health, they are not saying they are bad for the environment - two completely different things.

I also bought a diesel, it's annoying I agree but they weren't wrong.

SB


Mate, I think you are taking this to a semantic extreme. What's bad for the environment is bad for human health. Unless you are saying they didnt care about human health when they initially got us all buying diesel?
I got shot of my 2 year old diesel a year or so ago and replaced it with a 10 year old Golf.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:42 - Jul 26 with 2460 viewsNo9

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:36 - Jul 26 by chicoazul

The entire world trade is basically built on diesel. Crops are laid by diesel tractors, harvested by diesel combines, driven to port by diesel trucks, loaded onto ships by diesel powered cranes, floated to customers by diesel powered ships.


Not necessarily correct.

In some countries -
'tractors' are powerd by bio diesel.
Busses by solar panels
Ships (some) by LNG
Dock Cranes are electric powered by wind turbines located in the docks.

Of course pre- 80's there was a big move to use wind to power the production of hydrogen for use in internal combustion engines killed off by politicians

We are a long, long way behind others
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:42 - Jul 26 with 2454 viewsDeano69

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:14 - Jul 26 by hoppy

So you've ordered a diesel... so presumably it's still a better option for you than petrol, and despite the rise in taxation on diesels over the next few years?

I'm hoping to be able to replace my car soon(ish), although not as soon as I'd like. I tend to average between 16k-18k miles per year, and have always had diesel. My leaning would be towards diesel again, but unsure what the threshold would be now as to which works out better costwise to buy and run? I'd be looking at used (from 15 plate onwards) rather than new in all likelihood, but unsure of which is seen as the best option these days on that kind of mileage.


Also depends on what size of car and what you lug around (not a lot of point going for a Toyota Aygo if you have 3 Great Danes to transport). Best to knock up a quick spreadsheet to see what the true cost is over 3 years (or whatever duration you see fit). Cover all the costs, insurance, tax, fuel, servicing, depreciation (if you are going to keep it), breakdown cover, tyres etc etc. Also depends on whether your motivation is cost, eco friendly, or make/model/spec.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:43 - Jul 26 with 2441 viewsNewcyBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:42 - Jul 26 by No9

Not necessarily correct.

In some countries -
'tractors' are powerd by bio diesel.
Busses by solar panels
Ships (some) by LNG
Dock Cranes are electric powered by wind turbines located in the docks.

Of course pre- 80's there was a big move to use wind to power the production of hydrogen for use in internal combustion engines killed off by politicians

We are a long, long way behind others


Also the diesel we use in our cars isn't exactly the fuel oil I use on my ship.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:44 - Jul 26 with 2432 viewsStokieBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:40 - Jul 26 by chicoazul

Mate, I think you are taking this to a semantic extreme. What's bad for the environment is bad for human health. Unless you are saying they didnt care about human health when they initially got us all buying diesel?
I got shot of my 2 year old diesel a year or so ago and replaced it with a 10 year old Golf.


I honestly don't think so - they are two completely different things and you are trying to make out the experts were wrong when they clearly weren't.

There wasn't the worry about particulates (or possibly the knowledge) when they made the recommendation which was solely based on greenhouse gases.

SB

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:44 - Jul 26 with 2432 viewsNo9

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:43 - Jul 26 by NewcyBlue

Also the diesel we use in our cars isn't exactly the fuel oil I use on my ship.


I understand that -
what are you using heavy?
Still contains a lot of sulphur?
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:48 - Jul 26 with 2417 viewsNewcyBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:44 - Jul 26 by No9

I understand that -
what are you using heavy?
Still contains a lot of sulphur?


There are certain areas where we have to use ULSFO with a sulphur content of not more than 0.1%.

North Europe is one of those areas.

We use HSFO the rest of the time.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:48 - Jul 26 with 2414 viewsGeoffSentence

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:26 - Jul 26 by chicoazul

So the experts were wrong.

I wonder what else they are wrong about?


Yeah, the experts were probably wrong to encourage diesel cars based purely on co2 emissions as there were also other pollutants to consider.

Yeah, other experts are bound to have got other stuff wrong which will come to light as more i formation before available.

It is still better to have informed experts making recommendations than people who know fwck all.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:49 - Jul 26 with 2412 viewsDeano69

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:36 - Jul 26 by Harry_Palmer

100mpg from a petrol? are you sure about that? I don't think any diesel even comes close to that, a hybrid maybe.

Please enlighten as to which car achieves this as I will be making it my next purchase.


Peugeot have one as I recall something like the 208. 3 cylinder engine. As you mention several electric/hybrids will be in this category. In reality i suspect it will be lower than that on normal driving as they normally quote the highest on 'extra urban'

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:51 - Jul 26 with 2403 viewschicoazul

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:44 - Jul 26 by StokieBlue

I honestly don't think so - they are two completely different things and you are trying to make out the experts were wrong when they clearly weren't.

There wasn't the worry about particulates (or possibly the knowledge) when they made the recommendation which was solely based on greenhouse gases.

SB


So their recommendation was wrong in hindsight then, whatever you like, it was still wrong. Either they didnt know or they didnt care, and either way they were wrong to recommend what they did. I dont see why you have such a problem with this. Knowledge evolves. Which in turn leads some people to think, what else could they have been wrong about ten years ago?

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:52 - Jul 26 with 2402 viewsNewcyBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:49 - Jul 26 by Deano69

Peugeot have one as I recall something like the 208. 3 cylinder engine. As you mention several electric/hybrids will be in this category. In reality i suspect it will be lower than that on normal driving as they normally quote the highest on 'extra urban'


The blue hdi thing? It is close to 100mpg. 1.6 diesel thing.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:52 - Jul 26 with 2402 viewsDeano69

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:49 - Jul 26 by Deano69

Peugeot have one as I recall something like the 208. 3 cylinder engine. As you mention several electric/hybrids will be in this category. In reality i suspect it will be lower than that on normal driving as they normally quote the highest on 'extra urban'


Could have been a Honda i also saw at 100mpg

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:55 - Jul 26 with 2397 viewsipswich78

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 08:28 - Jul 26 by Jon_456

They'll also need to dramatically improve the range and charging times.

Most electric cars at the moment wont get you any further than 100miles before it needs re-charging. Then you have to wait hours for it to charge.


That's the common misconception...

Tesla are changing the game on that front, their new Model 3 will do about 200 miles. For the average car user that's far more than is required and charging in between use would not be an issue.

In regards to charging it comes down to behavioural changing doesn't it? You used to have to buy feed for hour horse, then you had to get petrol for your car (you see my point I am sure). You just need to learn to charge your car during the night. If a long journey is required you plan accordingly.

High speed chargers can charge your can in about 15 minutes. But yes, the infrastructure does and is changing.

We need to address this and I think the government and doing the right thing.

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:56 - Jul 26 with 2382 viewsStokieBlue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:51 - Jul 26 by chicoazul

So their recommendation was wrong in hindsight then, whatever you like, it was still wrong. Either they didnt know or they didnt care, and either way they were wrong to recommend what they did. I dont see why you have such a problem with this. Knowledge evolves. Which in turn leads some people to think, what else could they have been wrong about ten years ago?


I had a problem with it because your first post was an anti-expert post (what do they know etc etc). They didn't get it wrong, you are moving the goalposts to a different criteria.

They were told to make recommendations to reduce global warming gases - they did that. They would make the same recommendation now if that was the given criteria.

The criteria has changed thus the recommendation is different.

We disagree, that's fine. In the end we need to move forward with the new recommendations based on the new requirements/criteria.

SB
[Post edited 26 Jul 2017 10:57]

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:00 - Jul 26 with 2364 viewstcblue

Hi,

Longish time EV enthusiast here to dispel some vegan myths.

1.) I have a 5 year old Nissan Leaf which has done 63,000 miles, most of which has been charged at home but probably at least a couple of thousand by a CHaDEMO rapid charger. The battery efficiency has dropped by 1.7% from new.
2.) The newer models have 50% more range than my old one, and charge just as quickly.
3.) I fully agree that battery production isn't especially environmentally friendly. I am getting a wall battery to feed from my solar panels during the day to reduce the footprint further.
4.) There's studies recently which show that renewable energy sources such as wind and solar, are actually CHEAPER to build now. The graphic below shows how much land would be required to fully provide the whole world with enough power from solar for all of its current needs:




Battery technology is changing at a rate which far outstrips early days of combustion, and I fully expect the trajectory to continue, doubling range and halving charge times. The Tesla Superchargers are an incredible testament to this.

The big drawback currently is the public charging network. This needs huge investment over the next couple of decades.
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:01 - Jul 26 with 2351 viewsGeoffSentence

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:55 - Jul 26 by ipswich78

That's the common misconception...

Tesla are changing the game on that front, their new Model 3 will do about 200 miles. For the average car user that's far more than is required and charging in between use would not be an issue.

In regards to charging it comes down to behavioural changing doesn't it? You used to have to buy feed for hour horse, then you had to get petrol for your car (you see my point I am sure). You just need to learn to charge your car during the night. If a long journey is required you plan accordingly.

High speed chargers can charge your can in about 15 minutes. But yes, the infrastructure does and is changing.

We need to address this and I think the government and doing the right thing.


Although most journeys are short, surely most people do occasional long ones which makes the short range of electric cars a problem.
[Post edited 26 Jul 2017 11:13]

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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:07 - Jul 26 with 2340 viewsNo9

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 10:48 - Jul 26 by GeoffSentence

Yeah, the experts were probably wrong to encourage diesel cars based purely on co2 emissions as there were also other pollutants to consider.

Yeah, other experts are bound to have got other stuff wrong which will come to light as more i formation before available.

It is still better to have informed experts making recommendations than people who know fwck all.


The recommendations from experts were based largely on the fact that, purely on an MPG basis diesels produced less pollutants - if you ignore the problems with il on vegetation but, they were improving greatly.
meanwhile the stuff they put in petroleum to replace lead was / is extremely toxic.

There were petrol stations installed in some countries where suction systems were used to recover fumes and petrol station pavements had to be fitted with positive drainage to recover spills for processing beacuse if the stuff got into the water table the water became unusable.

They don't always tell us everything
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:09 - Jul 26 with 2334 viewstcblue

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:01 - Jul 26 by GeoffSentence

Although most journeys are short, surely most people do occasional long ones which makes the short range of electric cars a problem.
[Post edited 26 Jul 2017 11:13]


Again, only a problem with the availability and efficiency of the charging stations. 'Range anxiety' is a nonsense if that's resolved, which it is for Tesla in certain states in the US. One of my wealthier friends lives in California and has a Tesla Model S 100D which does real world 300 miles on a charge, and it takes 40 minutes to charge to 80% from empty.

I don't do more than 300 miles without stopping, perhaps not as long as 40 minutes but given just five years ago the hypothetical charge time would have been approximately 10 hours, you can see how things are progressing.
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So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:10 - Jul 26 with 2331 viewsDeano69

So not long ago we were encouraged to buy diesel cars on 11:00 - Jul 26 by tcblue

Hi,

Longish time EV enthusiast here to dispel some vegan myths.

1.) I have a 5 year old Nissan Leaf which has done 63,000 miles, most of which has been charged at home but probably at least a couple of thousand by a CHaDEMO rapid charger. The battery efficiency has dropped by 1.7% from new.
2.) The newer models have 50% more range than my old one, and charge just as quickly.
3.) I fully agree that battery production isn't especially environmentally friendly. I am getting a wall battery to feed from my solar panels during the day to reduce the footprint further.
4.) There's studies recently which show that renewable energy sources such as wind and solar, are actually CHEAPER to build now. The graphic below shows how much land would be required to fully provide the whole world with enough power from solar for all of its current needs:




Battery technology is changing at a rate which far outstrips early days of combustion, and I fully expect the trajectory to continue, doubling range and halving charge times. The Tesla Superchargers are an incredible testament to this.

The big drawback currently is the public charging network. This needs huge investment over the next couple of decades.


Thats excellent thanks. Anything on battery disposal, thats my hang up on this technology, we cant even get rid of laptop batteries without a load of fuss...

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