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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? 16:19 - Jul 27 with 12152 viewschristiand

Although MM has had a little more money to spend, do you think he has been sufficiently backed by ME?
[Post edited 27 Jul 2017 16:34]

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 07:57 - Jul 28 with 3786 viewstractorboy1978

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 07:44 - Jul 28 by Herbivore

The owner puts in £6m to £10m of his own money every season to cover the club's running costs. Obviously that's a pittance to a wealthy man such as yourself who considers such a level of investment to be pitiful and who thinks £1m is a nominal fee. Maybe you could buy the club and sink some proper money in instead of all this namby pamby multi-millions that ME is putting in?

Did we not bid £2m for Hugill back in January? I don't think £2m would get him now and on what I've seen I don't think he's worth the £3.5m to £4m that's been touted. I'd rather we get a couple more Huws or Garner type signings (I know in your eyes they're League 2 players, but I think they're pretty decent) than blow all that money on a fairly mediocre Championship striker. I'd also rather we get a quality Prem loan for a fraction of the cost than blow a chunk of cash like that on someone like Hugill.


As I mentioned elsewhere though yesterday, that is a false economy. We seem in a cycle of paying out fairly substantial (for us) fees on loanees when we should be looking at getting someone here permanently, even if that means spending a couple of million quid - it is an investment. You've kind of made my point yourself mentioning Hugill's value increasing in the last 6 months. If you can get hold of a striker of a decent age that knocks even a modest amount of goals in then you have an asset whose value has increased exponentially.
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 08:10 - Jul 28 with 3773 viewsHerbivore

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 07:57 - Jul 28 by tractorboy1978

As I mentioned elsewhere though yesterday, that is a false economy. We seem in a cycle of paying out fairly substantial (for us) fees on loanees when we should be looking at getting someone here permanently, even if that means spending a couple of million quid - it is an investment. You've kind of made my point yourself mentioning Hugill's value increasing in the last 6 months. If you can get hold of a striker of a decent age that knocks even a modest amount of goals in then you have an asset whose value has increased exponentially.


That's one perspective on it but looking at Hugill for example I'm not convinced he'd come here as automatic first choice and for the best part of £4m can we afford to have him on the bench? Will his value rise if he's not playing every week? Does he look a player who will ever be worth more than the £4m that's being touted? For me the answer to all of those questions is more likely to be no than yes. Loanees aren't ideal but they enable us to have an £8m player like Lawrence for a full season and we otherwise would never be able to have a player of that calibre. At the slightly lower end of the scale they are a cheap way of adding depth of quality to a squad and although we won't see a return on the investment (unless we go up of course) there won't be any depreciation either if they're not playing or don't perform as expected. How many of the players Magilton, Keane and Jewell paid money for did we actually see a return on?

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 08:22 - Jul 28 with 3759 viewstractorboy1978

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 08:10 - Jul 28 by Herbivore

That's one perspective on it but looking at Hugill for example I'm not convinced he'd come here as automatic first choice and for the best part of £4m can we afford to have him on the bench? Will his value rise if he's not playing every week? Does he look a player who will ever be worth more than the £4m that's being touted? For me the answer to all of those questions is more likely to be no than yes. Loanees aren't ideal but they enable us to have an £8m player like Lawrence for a full season and we otherwise would never be able to have a player of that calibre. At the slightly lower end of the scale they are a cheap way of adding depth of quality to a squad and although we won't see a return on the investment (unless we go up of course) there won't be any depreciation either if they're not playing or don't perform as expected. How many of the players Magilton, Keane and Jewell paid money for did we actually see a return on?


I wouldn't pay £4m for him, no. That is too expensive now, but if come January he's scored 8-10 goals you can stick another million or two on that figure the way the market is going.

We need to be looking at someone that can come in and make themselves an automatic first choice because last season we bought in 3 filler options (Best, Moore and Samuel) that simply weren't good enough. If we are going to sign a decent, young Premiership loanee then their club will want reassurances they are going to play as well.

Lawrence wasn't an £8m player this time last year, he was a player that had shown flashes in various loan spells but not proven himself. Had we offered £2-£3m for him last summer we'd likely have got him permanently. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The three managers you mention made a lot of scatter gun, ill thought out purchases, Keane in particular. I'm not suggesting we do that for a minute.
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 08:59 - Jul 28 with 3733 viewsITFC_Forever

We all know that ME puts in £6m a year, which is all well and good, but whether he likes it or not, it's not enough in the current climate.

We know we can't spend £10m on one player, but that amount on 4/5 players would improve our squad no end.

And the bonkers fees this summer is a bit of a myth.... Stuart Watson posted yesterday a list of the amount clubs in the Champ have spent on strikers this summer and apart from two at 'Boro and a massive (and bizarre) gamble by Brizzle, all the fees have been reasonably sane.

We all know we won't make the signings we need (at least a striker and a winger) between now and the end of the window and knowing us will sell Bart for a relative pittance and not replace him.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:06 - Jul 28 with 3722 viewschristiand

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 07:44 - Jul 28 by Herbivore

The owner puts in £6m to £10m of his own money every season to cover the club's running costs. Obviously that's a pittance to a wealthy man such as yourself who considers such a level of investment to be pitiful and who thinks £1m is a nominal fee. Maybe you could buy the club and sink some proper money in instead of all this namby pamby multi-millions that ME is putting in?

Did we not bid £2m for Hugill back in January? I don't think £2m would get him now and on what I've seen I don't think he's worth the £3.5m to £4m that's been touted. I'd rather we get a couple more Huws or Garner type signings (I know in your eyes they're League 2 players, but I think they're pretty decent) than blow all that money on a fairly mediocre Championship striker. I'd also rather we get a quality Prem loan for a fraction of the cost than blow a chunk of cash like that on someone like Hugill.


In Hugill's case you are buying potential. I agree he isn't worth £4m currently, but £2.5m in today's market is good value for a Championship striker, who is a good age and is a handful at that level. For your information, we were alleged to have offered £1.5m in January - shock horror, the deal wasn't done when they valued him nearer to £2m! If MM was being properly backed ME would've got that deal over the line at the time, but to all our amazement nothing came of it!

Good old ME bank rolling the club for £6m a year, but does he? He gets his money one way or another believe you me. Lets be honest Herbivore, he isn't the only club owner that invests his own money into their teams, but I do believe he doesn't do it with much conviction. My advice, if you don't like it, find another investor and SELL UP! I'm not a wealthy man, but you really need to wake up and smell the roses as you like ME will get left behind in this league.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:08 - Jul 28 with 3715 viewsMullet

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 08:59 - Jul 28 by ITFC_Forever

We all know that ME puts in £6m a year, which is all well and good, but whether he likes it or not, it's not enough in the current climate.

We know we can't spend £10m on one player, but that amount on 4/5 players would improve our squad no end.

And the bonkers fees this summer is a bit of a myth.... Stuart Watson posted yesterday a list of the amount clubs in the Champ have spent on strikers this summer and apart from two at 'Boro and a massive (and bizarre) gamble by Brizzle, all the fees have been reasonably sane.

We all know we won't make the signings we need (at least a striker and a winger) between now and the end of the window and knowing us will sell Bart for a relative pittance and not replace him.

We're destined to be Average Joe FC forever more.


Watson as ever though only gave half the picture.

He failed to account for fees like the £7m for someone we clearly thought we could get on loan, and the fact that strikers aren't the only ones moving for big money (the biggest of those must be the midfielder Wolves spent £15m equivalent to Assombolonga).

Also it's the mentioned uptake to and from the Prem which is making loan fees difficult clearly. There's also the argument about fees and value which skews it further. Is Watkins a £2m player? Possible, and good luck to him but it's not a risk we're going to take so pointless comparing.

It's quite clear how we're going about our business. The idea that spending £2m means we get someone twice as good as Garner will always persist and muddy the waters too.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:11 - Jul 28 with 3710 viewsitfcjoe

We'll find out when we see who fills our number 9 shirt....

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:14 - Jul 28 with 3703 viewschristiand

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:11 - Jul 28 by itfcjoe

We'll find out when we see who fills our number 9 shirt....


ITFCJoe, personally think that player is already within our squad.

Terrific pictures yesterday I thought from the Club's Open Day!!
[Post edited 28 Jul 2017 9:15]

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:23 - Jul 28 with 3691 viewsitfcjoe

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:08 - Jul 28 by Mullet

Watson as ever though only gave half the picture.

He failed to account for fees like the £7m for someone we clearly thought we could get on loan, and the fact that strikers aren't the only ones moving for big money (the biggest of those must be the midfielder Wolves spent £15m equivalent to Assombolonga).

Also it's the mentioned uptake to and from the Prem which is making loan fees difficult clearly. There's also the argument about fees and value which skews it further. Is Watkins a £2m player? Possible, and good luck to him but it's not a risk we're going to take so pointless comparing.

It's quite clear how we're going about our business. The idea that spending £2m means we get someone twice as good as Garner will always persist and muddy the waters too.


Is Watkins at £1.8m any more of a risk than Webster at £750k though, given that strikers will always attract a premium?

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:24 - Jul 28 with 3687 viewsitfcjoe

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:14 - Jul 28 by christiand

ITFCJoe, personally think that player is already within our squad.

Terrific pictures yesterday I thought from the Club's Open Day!!
[Post edited 28 Jul 2017 9:15]


Cheers

Someone will come in, but the quality of that addition will be telling - needs to be someone that can be relied upon because we can't rely on the 3 strikers we currently have to score a good amount of goals for one reason or another.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:40 - Jul 28 with 3664 viewsElderGrizzly

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:11 - Jul 28 by itfcjoe

We'll find out when we see who fills our number 9 shirt....


Well Garner was offered it, but wanted his 'lucky' No.14 shirt.

So in theory, we already have it filled but for superstition?
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:40 - Jul 28 with 3664 viewsMullet

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:23 - Jul 28 by itfcjoe

Is Watkins at £1.8m any more of a risk than Webster at £750k though, given that strikers will always attract a premium?


About £1m more of a risk surely?

The point is if we had X amount to spend, using it up on fees is much more risky. It's clear we'd rather have someone for a year who is better right now, than invest £2m that might not come back in for us.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:44 - Jul 28 with 3656 viewsElderGrizzly

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:40 - Jul 28 by Mullet

About £1m more of a risk surely?

The point is if we had X amount to spend, using it up on fees is much more risky. It's clear we'd rather have someone for a year who is better right now, than invest £2m that might not come back in for us.


Agree. With our finances that is the sort of 'risk' we are prepared to take.

Mick and Evans to some degree, especially this season, will also be about the short-term with his contract either up, or Evans triggering a 2 year extension if we do well.

Mick can't affird a season of risks unless he sees this as his last season. And then even if it was, he needs a better season than last year to get another good job?
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:46 - Jul 28 with 3653 viewschristiand

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:40 - Jul 28 by Mullet

About £1m more of a risk surely?

The point is if we had X amount to spend, using it up on fees is much more risky. It's clear we'd rather have someone for a year who is better right now, than invest £2m that might not come back in for us.


I can understand the logic Mullet, but there is also the chance that they could hit the ground running and be a success at this level too. All transfers or loans are calculated risks, there are a number of reasons that moves do or don't work out, which can be influenced off the pitch as well as on it.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:47 - Jul 28 with 3648 viewsitfcjoe

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:40 - Jul 28 by Mullet

About £1m more of a risk surely?

The point is if we had X amount to spend, using it up on fees is much more risky. It's clear we'd rather have someone for a year who is better right now, than invest £2m that might not come back in for us.


But with a potentially much higher reward?

If getting up is a long term plan, which we all assume it is, then surely building for the future is as important as the short term - and our striking options are just not going to be up to it now and in the future.

The foolish man built his house upon the sand....

Obviously when we see who the actual addition is that changes things - because there is a big difference between a Bodvarrson (out of favour at parent club, potential to get a deal done down the line) than an Ugbo (Years left on contract at Chelsea and no chance of signing him) on loan.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:57 - Jul 28 with 3629 viewsTownly

Nobody forced Marcus Evans to buy Ipswich town football Club, neither is it true to say he 'caught a cold' with his purchase.

Just as his team of accountants will have accustomed him with the business benefits of the club successfully reaching the Premier League they will also have warned him of the pitfalls of failure. The club's previous financial problems were not kept from them all after all.

As we know the strategy adopted was to go for a quick fix, get rid of homespun Jim, appoint a big name and pump a few millions into the playing side of the concern.

That it failed spectacularly and consistently is clear to all. Decline began the day Roy Keane walked into Portman Road and it has continued ever since. That it is not more rapid has been due to the very pragmatic, and very well paid, Mick McCarthy a man seemingly more concerned with keeping his benefactor happy than pleasing the club's fans.

As for Evans it is fairly well-known that he he has never been a fervent fan of the club and that his interests lie less in the success of the team and more in the success of the brand.

Who knows exactly what benefits his considerable and ongoing investments bring him? The 'sponsorships' might well advantage the Marcus Evans brand more than we know, but those who think the bottom line of running a loss-making arm to the overall concern is a major plus point really know little about business taxation. No doubt though his accountants will squeeze every last pip from the situation.

In reality Marcus Evans has a hot potato in his hands. It is more of a scold because he is not a true fan, but who wants to buy a loss-making business?

Does he cut his losses and run? Where would that leave the club? Who knows? It would surely be in a more perilous situation than it is now as that's the one certainty in this perfect storm.

It's become quite a unique situation whereby no party is happy. Evans will have realised by now that during the space of his tenure at the club he has become a financial pygmy within the game and will therefore be aware that he is neither willing nor able to increase his investment more as the financial risks will increase rather than decrease. For some time it has become obvious that he doesn't want to get any deeper in the mire in any case. The fans see the club as stagnating, clutch at more and more straws and are made discontent by the fact that their aspirations are being diminished drip by drip.

We should actually be thankful that Marcus Evans continues to keep the club afloat despite it's dodgy keel, despite it's drift into the realms of the financially under-nourished and despite the fayre that is often served up on the field of play.

There is no alternative to the status quo except to keep our fingers crossed and hope for a freak promotion or the emergence of a Euro-millionaire who wears the blue or something unexpected to turn up .... and that Marcus Evans doesn't walk out on us in the meantime.

Nil desperandum.

This posting is all about money. That the game is now ruled by money is nobody's fault. That's the way it is now. Evolution and all that.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2017 10:13]
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:32 - Jul 28 with 3577 viewstractorboy1978

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 09:40 - Jul 28 by Mullet

About £1m more of a risk surely?

The point is if we had X amount to spend, using it up on fees is much more risky. It's clear we'd rather have someone for a year who is better right now, than invest £2m that might not come back in for us.


What assurance is there that Fletcher or Ugbo would come in and do better? These aren't players we would be getting for nothing. The costs of one of these loanees are often in the region of £1m for a season (not cheap) and we have nothing to show for it at the end either.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2017 13:33]
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:37 - Jul 28 with 3566 viewsMullet

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:32 - Jul 28 by tractorboy1978

What assurance is there that Fletcher or Ugbo would come in and do better? These aren't players we would be getting for nothing. The costs of one of these loanees are often in the region of £1m for a season (not cheap) and we have nothing to show for it at the end either.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2017 13:33]


I was talking about Joe's example of Webster, but that's a fair point except the £1m figure is more likely the whole thing, wages and all isn't it? A loan fee of £1m would see us get someone more than a youth I'd suspect.

Most of MM's best signings have been freebies and I don't mind if we take more players like Skuse, McG etc to build upon. Ultimately it's about how good they are not what they cost.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:40 - Jul 28 with 3562 viewstractorboy1978

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:37 - Jul 28 by Mullet

I was talking about Joe's example of Webster, but that's a fair point except the £1m figure is more likely the whole thing, wages and all isn't it? A loan fee of £1m would see us get someone more than a youth I'd suspect.

Most of MM's best signings have been freebies and I don't mind if we take more players like Skuse, McG etc to build upon. Ultimately it's about how good they are not what they cost.


I was referring to the point we'd rather have someone better now. I see no tangible evidence for Fletcher or Ugbo being better than Watkins, all 3 are equally unproven but the latter has more senior, competitive football under his belt.
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:41 - Jul 28 with 3557 viewsMullet

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:40 - Jul 28 by tractorboy1978

I was referring to the point we'd rather have someone better now. I see no tangible evidence for Fletcher or Ugbo being better than Watkins, all 3 are equally unproven but the latter has more senior, competitive football under his belt.


Isn't the point that we'd more likely spend a fee on a player such as Washington if he's available than one on Watkins and the like?

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 15:29 - Jul 28 with 3529 viewsitfcjoe

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:37 - Jul 28 by Mullet

I was talking about Joe's example of Webster, but that's a fair point except the £1m figure is more likely the whole thing, wages and all isn't it? A loan fee of £1m would see us get someone more than a youth I'd suspect.

Most of MM's best signings have been freebies and I don't mind if we take more players like Skuse, McG etc to build upon. Ultimately it's about how good they are not what they cost.


I'm not convinced that in the current market we'd be able to attract the likes of McG, Skuse etc on frees. Firstly players of that quality and Champ experience don't seem to be hitting the market as clubs are protecting themselves better - and secondly when they do they are getting picked up by clubs with more money.

That summer of Berra, Hunt, Skuse, McG, Murphy, Anderson, Tabb, Gerken all on freebies just wouldn't happen now - I think we were ahead of the game when FFP came in, but haven't reacted well enough to the changes in it.

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 16:25 - Jul 28 with 3506 viewsFreddy

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 07:44 - Jul 28 by Herbivore

The owner puts in £6m to £10m of his own money every season to cover the club's running costs. Obviously that's a pittance to a wealthy man such as yourself who considers such a level of investment to be pitiful and who thinks £1m is a nominal fee. Maybe you could buy the club and sink some proper money in instead of all this namby pamby multi-millions that ME is putting in?

Did we not bid £2m for Hugill back in January? I don't think £2m would get him now and on what I've seen I don't think he's worth the £3.5m to £4m that's been touted. I'd rather we get a couple more Huws or Garner type signings (I know in your eyes they're League 2 players, but I think they're pretty decent) than blow all that money on a fairly mediocre Championship striker. I'd also rather we get a quality Prem loan for a fraction of the cost than blow a chunk of cash like that on someone like Hugill.


But putting in £6m a year from his £750m fortune wont get a decent enough team together to challenge for the top 2 will it, look at what others are spending?

How much has he actually spent this summer ( excluding wages ) does anyone know?
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 18:20 - Jul 28 with 3487 viewstractorboy1978

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 13:41 - Jul 28 by Mullet

Isn't the point that we'd more likely spend a fee on a player such as Washington if he's available than one on Watkins and the like?


Well we wouldn't pay the fee they wanted at the time would we?
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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 19:54 - Jul 28 with 3464 viewsbournemouthblue

Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 07:44 - Jul 28 by Herbivore

The owner puts in £6m to £10m of his own money every season to cover the club's running costs. Obviously that's a pittance to a wealthy man such as yourself who considers such a level of investment to be pitiful and who thinks £1m is a nominal fee. Maybe you could buy the club and sink some proper money in instead of all this namby pamby multi-millions that ME is putting in?

Did we not bid £2m for Hugill back in January? I don't think £2m would get him now and on what I've seen I don't think he's worth the £3.5m to £4m that's been touted. I'd rather we get a couple more Huws or Garner type signings (I know in your eyes they're League 2 players, but I think they're pretty decent) than blow all that money on a fairly mediocre Championship striker. I'd also rather we get a quality Prem loan for a fraction of the cost than blow a chunk of cash like that on someone like Hugill.


Hugill would be a two or three year investment with decent sell on potential if he kicks on

At £3 - 4 million, that's pretty cheap by modern standards

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Has MM been properly backed by ME this summer? on 21:24 - Jul 28 with 3433 viewsFrimleyBlue

Not really imo

Until season is a few games in. We wont see the true potential in garner and the others. Obv a couple we already know from last season..but signing wise. Imo no real difference.

But itll be interesting to see how we shape up for a league gsme and what football we will play

Waka waka eh eh
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