| Celina 11:19 - Sep 18 with 6794 views | Wickets |
He might not be the brightest , if the poor taste tale on here is to be believed but he made a big difference when he came on . Almost straight away Bolton put 2 men on him sometimes 3 around him suddenly there was room in the middle, so much so even Skuse got forward and we all know how that ended up. |  | | |  |
| Celina on 11:25 - Sep 18 with 5695 views | artsbossbeard |
Is the suggestion here that Mick got it right in holding him back and employing him from the bench as a game changer? It was a good call, if so. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Celina on 11:33 - Sep 18 with 5652 views | Wickets |
| Celina on 11:25 - Sep 18 by artsbossbeard |
Is the suggestion here that Mick got it right in holding him back and employing him from the bench as a game changer? It was a good call, if so. |
Would not argue with that, Sir Alex often used to change his strikers at HT , if Man U where not winning, it usually worked. | | | |
| Celina on 11:50 - Sep 18 with 5556 views | christiand |
| Celina on 11:33 - Sep 18 by Wickets |
Would not argue with that, Sir Alex often used to change his strikers at HT , if Man U where not winning, it usually worked. |
Ferguson had plenty of choice and when he made changes this didn't impact on the quality on the pitch e.g. Sheringham and Solskjar for Yorke and Cole. We are certainly not Manchester United and don't have that same luxury of choice - if only! |  |
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| Celina on 12:07 - Sep 18 with 5471 views | uefacup81 |
| Celina on 11:25 - Sep 18 by artsbossbeard |
Is the suggestion here that Mick got it right in holding him back and employing him from the bench as a game changer? It was a good call, if so. |
My boss mentioned him this morning when we were discussing the game, and remarked that when he came on Bolton seemed to take turns in fouling him and that, as a result, their yellow card count increased significantly.
Perhaps, if Mick begins to start giving him 90mins, we could be playing against 10 men a few times this season, especially with Garner being Garner as well. |  |
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| Celina on 13:24 - Sep 18 with 5292 views | No9 |
| Celina on 11:25 - Sep 18 by artsbossbeard |
Is the suggestion here that Mick got it right in holding him back and employing him from the bench as a game changer? It was a good call, if so. |
He had to do somethign at half time because in the first half Bolton ran the show - even MM admitted that. | | | |
| Celina on 13:43 - Sep 18 with 5217 views | Superfrans |
I didn't really see that, to be honest. he was bright, sharp, quick on the ball, but he didn't produce anything of any note. In comparison, McGoldrick made one goal and scored another.
Celina is obviously very talented. Anyone can see that. But he needs to improve in certain areas to make the most of that talent - as I said on here yesterday, he needs to relax in games and not feel he needs to do some extraordinary every time he gets the ball. I couple of times he got the ball caught up in his feet, trying something special.
Hopefully, the coaching staff are telling him just this. Calm down, lay the ball off simply sometimes, find space, be ready to receive from your team-mates, learn when to chase the ball/game and when to allow the space to come to you.
He has it in him to be a player who can start for the likes of Man City, but he isn't there yet. Hopefully he'll improve enough while he's with us to be that player in a Town shirt. |  |
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| Celina on 14:08 - Sep 18 with 5130 views | christiand |
| Celina on 13:43 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
I didn't really see that, to be honest. he was bright, sharp, quick on the ball, but he didn't produce anything of any note. In comparison, McGoldrick made one goal and scored another.
Celina is obviously very talented. Anyone can see that. But he needs to improve in certain areas to make the most of that talent - as I said on here yesterday, he needs to relax in games and not feel he needs to do some extraordinary every time he gets the ball. I couple of times he got the ball caught up in his feet, trying something special.
Hopefully, the coaching staff are telling him just this. Calm down, lay the ball off simply sometimes, find space, be ready to receive from your team-mates, learn when to chase the ball/game and when to allow the space to come to you.
He has it in him to be a player who can start for the likes of Man City, but he isn't there yet. Hopefully he'll improve enough while he's with us to be that player in a Town shirt. |
Perhaps he feels he has to try and do something amazing to convince MM to play him from the start? Without doubt, probably putting added pressure on himself. [Post edited 18 Sep 2017 14:23]
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| Celina on 14:11 - Sep 18 with 5121 views | No9 |
| Celina on 13:43 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
I didn't really see that, to be honest. he was bright, sharp, quick on the ball, but he didn't produce anything of any note. In comparison, McGoldrick made one goal and scored another.
Celina is obviously very talented. Anyone can see that. But he needs to improve in certain areas to make the most of that talent - as I said on here yesterday, he needs to relax in games and not feel he needs to do some extraordinary every time he gets the ball. I couple of times he got the ball caught up in his feet, trying something special.
Hopefully, the coaching staff are telling him just this. Calm down, lay the ball off simply sometimes, find space, be ready to receive from your team-mates, learn when to chase the ball/game and when to allow the space to come to you.
He has it in him to be a player who can start for the likes of Man City, but he isn't there yet. Hopefully he'll improve enough while he's with us to be that player in a Town shirt. |
He did something other Town players seem unable to do & that is to run off the ball making space for others. | | | |
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| Celina on 14:29 - Sep 18 with 5072 views | PhilTWTD |
| Celina on 13:43 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
I didn't really see that, to be honest. he was bright, sharp, quick on the ball, but he didn't produce anything of any note. In comparison, McGoldrick made one goal and scored another.
Celina is obviously very talented. Anyone can see that. But he needs to improve in certain areas to make the most of that talent - as I said on here yesterday, he needs to relax in games and not feel he needs to do some extraordinary every time he gets the ball. I couple of times he got the ball caught up in his feet, trying something special.
Hopefully, the coaching staff are telling him just this. Calm down, lay the ball off simply sometimes, find space, be ready to receive from your team-mates, learn when to chase the ball/game and when to allow the space to come to you.
He has it in him to be a player who can start for the likes of Man City, but he isn't there yet. Hopefully he'll improve enough while he's with us to be that player in a Town shirt. |
Agree with much of that, although I think Celina was involved in creating chances which could have ended in goals, even if ultimately they didn't. McGoldrick was an obvious man of the match with Skuse the alternative.
I think you're right that there's an element of him trying too hard to impress at the moment, which has pluses and negatives. There was a moment when he tried a one-two not far outside his own area and misplaced his pass and put us back under pressure again. There is a time and a place for a hoof down the line.
The narrative of the game suited him, I thought. The early goal after the break meant Bolton needed to take the game more to us in the second half - the first half was a bit of a battle between the nine players the two teams strung across midfield - and allowed him space to run into with the ball. Had it stayed at 0-0, I'm not sure he would have been as effective. Even so, he drifted in and out of the game. Certainly a promising display, though. |  | | |
| Celina on 14:43 - Sep 18 with 5019 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 14:08 - Sep 18 by christiand |
Perhaps he feels he has to try and do something amazing to convince MM to play him from the start? Without doubt, probably putting added pressure on himself. [Post edited 18 Sep 2017 14:23]
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I don't disagree with this, but this is why he needs to be coached - told to calm down, don't always try doing the impossible, sometimes the simple pass is the best option, as it can help you find space off the ball, which is clearly what we want him to do. Equally, it is often said that sometimes standing still and allowing the space to come to you (if that doesn't sound daft) is better than chasing the ball. It feels as if he is so desperate to make an impact he chases the ball (and, as a result, his own teammates) too much... | |
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| Celina on 14:45 - Sep 18 with 5008 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 14:29 - Sep 18 by PhilTWTD |
Agree with much of that, although I think Celina was involved in creating chances which could have ended in goals, even if ultimately they didn't. McGoldrick was an obvious man of the match with Skuse the alternative.
I think you're right that there's an element of him trying too hard to impress at the moment, which has pluses and negatives. There was a moment when he tried a one-two not far outside his own area and misplaced his pass and put us back under pressure again. There is a time and a place for a hoof down the line.
The narrative of the game suited him, I thought. The early goal after the break meant Bolton needed to take the game more to us in the second half - the first half was a bit of a battle between the nine players the two teams strung across midfield - and allowed him space to run into with the ball. Had it stayed at 0-0, I'm not sure he would have been as effective. Even so, he drifted in and out of the game. Certainly a promising display, though. |
Funnily enough, we were saying at half-time that we should put him on straight away, not least because the Bolton defenders gave the ball away several times in the last 15-20 minutes of the half in dangerous positions, which would have been food and drink for a player as skillful as Celina.
If have no doubt that he will come good. I guess I'm just slightly frustrated that he isn't being as effective as he could be, given his talent. | |
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| Celina on 14:46 - Sep 18 with 4998 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 14:11 - Sep 18 by No9 |
He did something other Town players seem unable to do & that is to run off the ball making space for others. |
That's true. He will scare opponents and they will put extra players on him, freeing up space for others, that's true. | |
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| Celina on 14:52 - Sep 18 with 4982 views | JimmyJazz |
| Celina on 14:43 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
I don't disagree with this, but this is why he needs to be coached - told to calm down, don't always try doing the impossible, sometimes the simple pass is the best option, as it can help you find space off the ball, which is clearly what we want him to do. Equally, it is often said that sometimes standing still and allowing the space to come to you (if that doesn't sound daft) is better than chasing the ball. It feels as if he is so desperate to make an impact he chases the ball (and, as a result, his own teammates) too much... |
It may be (and I think this was also the case with Lawrence and Leicester) that he feels that if he doesn't make a major impact on every game Man City won't notice him and he'll never make a breakthrough there. A year of being a steady Eddie for us ain't gonna get him anywhere in the long run |  |
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| Celina on 14:59 - Sep 18 with 4955 views | No9 |
| Celina on 14:46 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
That's true. He will scare opponents and they will put extra players on him, freeing up space for others, that's true. |
That is somethign Town have lacked for a long while | | | |
| Celina on 14:59 - Sep 18 with 4957 views | Bluedandy |
| Celina on 13:43 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
I didn't really see that, to be honest. he was bright, sharp, quick on the ball, but he didn't produce anything of any note. In comparison, McGoldrick made one goal and scored another.
Celina is obviously very talented. Anyone can see that. But he needs to improve in certain areas to make the most of that talent - as I said on here yesterday, he needs to relax in games and not feel he needs to do some extraordinary every time he gets the ball. I couple of times he got the ball caught up in his feet, trying something special.
Hopefully, the coaching staff are telling him just this. Calm down, lay the ball off simply sometimes, find space, be ready to receive from your team-mates, learn when to chase the ball/game and when to allow the space to come to you.
He has it in him to be a player who can start for the likes of Man City, but he isn't there yet. Hopefully he'll improve enough while he's with us to be that player in a Town shirt. |
He had two shots (more than Garner or Ward who played two halves) .... one was deflected over the bar and the other was pushed away by the keeper ....
Bolton defenders were clearly nervous every time Celina got onto the ball near or in their half. No Town player can dribble at speed like Celina.
If Celina was used for the full 90 then he would be less inclined to try something special every time he got on the ball.
Frankly don't care about Man City .... we need to get the best/most out of him this season. The more game time he has the better he will be.
If Palace had restricted a similarly talented 21-year old called Wilfried Zaha to the role of cameo sub back in 2013 they would not have got promoted. | | | |
| Celina on 15:00 - Sep 18 with 4948 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 14:52 - Sep 18 by JimmyJazz |
It may be (and I think this was also the case with Lawrence and Leicester) that he feels that if he doesn't make a major impact on every game Man City won't notice him and he'll never make a breakthrough there. A year of being a steady Eddie for us ain't gonna get him anywhere in the long run |
Slight misunderstanding, I think. I'm not saying he shouldn't be trying to make an impact (or be happy to be a "steady Eddie") but that running around with no real focus won't allow him to perform to the best of his ability. | |
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| Celina on 15:26 - Sep 18 with 4894 views | Luk38644 |
| Celina on 13:43 - Sep 18 by Superfrans |
I didn't really see that, to be honest. he was bright, sharp, quick on the ball, but he didn't produce anything of any note. In comparison, McGoldrick made one goal and scored another.
Celina is obviously very talented. Anyone can see that. But he needs to improve in certain areas to make the most of that talent - as I said on here yesterday, he needs to relax in games and not feel he needs to do some extraordinary every time he gets the ball. I couple of times he got the ball caught up in his feet, trying something special.
Hopefully, the coaching staff are telling him just this. Calm down, lay the ball off simply sometimes, find space, be ready to receive from your team-mates, learn when to chase the ball/game and when to allow the space to come to you.
He has it in him to be a player who can start for the likes of Man City, but he isn't there yet. Hopefully he'll improve enough while he's with us to be that player in a Town shirt. |
Think that's being slightly harsh on him. Although he didn't create anything in terms of goals/assist, his intent on driving forward when he had the ball was refreshing and constantly put us on the front foot.
We were playing so deep in the first half, mainly due to the system, but we had no one who could take the ball and drive forward with pace and drag us up the pitch. We used to have it with Fraser and Lawrence, and now Celina hopefully. The point when he ran 40 yards and then fell over is a good example - No end product of note but it dragged our defence and midfield up the pitch and got us on the front foot. That's vital at home.
Another thing he did was allow McGoldrick to have a slightly freer role because he wasn't the only talented option that Bolton had to worry about. The amount of times Celina pulled two Bolton players out to the left side and left gaps for others to run into was immense.
Someone in Celina's mould is vital if we're going to get on the front foot against teams. A team of sloggers gets you to a point but without that sheer and constant attacking intent, you'll struggle. We did in the first half and he changed it as did the system change. I don't think we should encourage him to stop trying flamboyant things either - It may not work 100% of the time but look at Ward, he never tries anything flamboyant and I wish he did. All it takes is 1 attempt out of 5 from Celina and it could get us a goal. [Post edited 18 Sep 2017 15:27]
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| Celina on 15:33 - Sep 18 with 4858 views | Wickets |
| Celina on 11:50 - Sep 18 by christiand |
Ferguson had plenty of choice and when he made changes this didn't impact on the quality on the pitch e.g. Sheringham and Solskjar for Yorke and Cole. We are certainly not Manchester United and don't have that same luxury of choice - if only! |
Mildenhall Town do it quite often as well bud! | | | |
| Celina on 15:35 - Sep 18 with 4849 views | Wickets |
| Celina on 13:24 - Sep 18 by No9 |
He had to do somethign at half time because in the first half Bolton ran the show - even MM admitted that. |
Not so sure they ran the show first half but for the last 30mins of it they looked the most likely. | | | |
| Celina on 15:39 - Sep 18 with 4838 views | Wickets |
| Celina on 14:29 - Sep 18 by PhilTWTD |
Agree with much of that, although I think Celina was involved in creating chances which could have ended in goals, even if ultimately they didn't. McGoldrick was an obvious man of the match with Skuse the alternative.
I think you're right that there's an element of him trying too hard to impress at the moment, which has pluses and negatives. There was a moment when he tried a one-two not far outside his own area and misplaced his pass and put us back under pressure again. There is a time and a place for a hoof down the line.
The narrative of the game suited him, I thought. The early goal after the break meant Bolton needed to take the game more to us in the second half - the first half was a bit of a battle between the nine players the two teams strung across midfield - and allowed him space to run into with the ball. Had it stayed at 0-0, I'm not sure he would have been as effective. Even so, he drifted in and out of the game. Certainly a promising display, though. |
All very true but my point was that Bolton felt the need to mark him with at least 2 and felt the need to foul him several times., as someone else has pointed out. | | | |
| Celina on 15:58 - Sep 18 with 4798 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 15:26 - Sep 18 by Luk38644 |
Think that's being slightly harsh on him. Although he didn't create anything in terms of goals/assist, his intent on driving forward when he had the ball was refreshing and constantly put us on the front foot.
We were playing so deep in the first half, mainly due to the system, but we had no one who could take the ball and drive forward with pace and drag us up the pitch. We used to have it with Fraser and Lawrence, and now Celina hopefully. The point when he ran 40 yards and then fell over is a good example - No end product of note but it dragged our defence and midfield up the pitch and got us on the front foot. That's vital at home.
Another thing he did was allow McGoldrick to have a slightly freer role because he wasn't the only talented option that Bolton had to worry about. The amount of times Celina pulled two Bolton players out to the left side and left gaps for others to run into was immense.
Someone in Celina's mould is vital if we're going to get on the front foot against teams. A team of sloggers gets you to a point but without that sheer and constant attacking intent, you'll struggle. We did in the first half and he changed it as did the system change. I don't think we should encourage him to stop trying flamboyant things either - It may not work 100% of the time but look at Ward, he never tries anything flamboyant and I wish he did. All it takes is 1 attempt out of 5 from Celina and it could get us a goal. [Post edited 18 Sep 2017 15:27]
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True enough. And I'm willing to accept I'm being a bit tough on him.
If so, it's partly out of a wish for him to contribute as much as he is capable of, I would say.
As I've said plenty of times, he is a really talented fella, who could be better than Lawrence, Fraser or Williams have been. I don't think he's the finished article, that's all. And I can see why he's not being thrown straight into the first team.
And, to be clear, I'm not suggesting he doesn't work hard enough - if anything its exactly the opposite - a bit more heads up, finding space, making himself available. He's not that far off. | |
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| Celina on 15:59 - Sep 18 with 4793 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 14:59 - Sep 18 by No9 |
That is somethign Town have lacked for a long while |
Hmmm. If you discount Lawrence, Fraser, Williams and McGoldrick, that's possibly true. | |
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| Celina on 16:03 - Sep 18 with 4781 views | Superfrans |
| Celina on 14:59 - Sep 18 by Bluedandy |
He had two shots (more than Garner or Ward who played two halves) .... one was deflected over the bar and the other was pushed away by the keeper ....
Bolton defenders were clearly nervous every time Celina got onto the ball near or in their half. No Town player can dribble at speed like Celina.
If Celina was used for the full 90 then he would be less inclined to try something special every time he got on the ball.
Frankly don't care about Man City .... we need to get the best/most out of him this season. The more game time he has the better he will be.
If Palace had restricted a similarly talented 21-year old called Wilfried Zaha to the role of cameo sub back in 2013 they would not have got promoted. |
I don't care about Man City either. But I care about him delivering for us through the rest of the season. He'll do it, he just needs a bit of time.
I don't agree that the more he's on the pitch, the more he will learn. There is such a thing as man management and that clearly where (like him or not) Mick is very skilled / experienced and can help a player (as Lawrence, Fraser and Williams have all said he did). | |
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| Celina on 16:05 - Sep 18 with 4771 views | PhilTWTD |
| Celina on 15:39 - Sep 18 by Wickets |
All very true but my point was that Bolton felt the need to mark him with at least 2 and felt the need to foul him several times., as someone else has pointed out. |
As Mick said after the match, Bolton struggled to adapt to the change of system immediately and that in part played a role in the goal or rather Town being on the front foot in the opening minutes of the half.
His pace on the break is always going to draw cynical fouls and yellow cards. Very useful if we can get back to being as clinical from set pieces as we were a couple of years ago. | | | |
| Celina on 16:10 - Sep 18 with 4746 views | PhilTWTD |
| Celina on 15:26 - Sep 18 by Luk38644 |
Think that's being slightly harsh on him. Although he didn't create anything in terms of goals/assist, his intent on driving forward when he had the ball was refreshing and constantly put us on the front foot.
We were playing so deep in the first half, mainly due to the system, but we had no one who could take the ball and drive forward with pace and drag us up the pitch. We used to have it with Fraser and Lawrence, and now Celina hopefully. The point when he ran 40 yards and then fell over is a good example - No end product of note but it dragged our defence and midfield up the pitch and got us on the front foot. That's vital at home.
Another thing he did was allow McGoldrick to have a slightly freer role because he wasn't the only talented option that Bolton had to worry about. The amount of times Celina pulled two Bolton players out to the left side and left gaps for others to run into was immense.
Someone in Celina's mould is vital if we're going to get on the front foot against teams. A team of sloggers gets you to a point but without that sheer and constant attacking intent, you'll struggle. We did in the first half and he changed it as did the system change. I don't think we should encourage him to stop trying flamboyant things either - It may not work 100% of the time but look at Ward, he never tries anything flamboyant and I wish he did. All it takes is 1 attempt out of 5 from Celina and it could get us a goal. [Post edited 18 Sep 2017 15:27]
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I take the point re the 40-yard run, but I don't think he would (often) get the space to make that sort of run at 0-0 in a first half at home. I think the early goal in the second half meant he was more effective than he might have been, breaking from deep.
I don't think we played further up the pitch as such in the second half, not in terms of keeping the ball, more that we were in a position to counter more often and more effectively once ahead and with him on the field. | | | |
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