| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:00 - Oct 2 with 7994 views | SW6Tractor |
His final paragraph sums it up very neatly. Except maybe it's not a "nagging feeling" but that we know our real worth. It does speak volumes that even the journalists are bored of following us though. |  | |  |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:01 - Oct 2 with 7994 views | TheBlueBarca |
Last season weirdly has bought the club a "Get out of Jail Free Card" in some respects, because we could finish 13th and everyone will point to progress but the reality is, we're still stuck in this league with a budget for the league below and rapidly declining fan base.
If anything Mick could be considered a miracle worker for what he's achieved here under Evans. We're very much punching above our weight with the existing squad and people are genuinely shocked that we're not in the bottom 5 again because let's face it, on paper that's where we should be.
So define progress?
A bigger question is, what is the owner really trying to achieve here because another few seasons of this he will be down to gates of 10k, have to reduce the budget further to make it manageable within his plans and thus even less competitive. I think we'll drop if we do not change our tune, I don't expect us to be spending millions but this season we started well and he had the chance to invest in a couple of decent defenders. Instead, we chased after two loans, one of which fell through because it relied on someone else, which s classic Evans ITFC and the other was that lad from Everton that looks like he's never seen a ball before.
Opportunity wasted I would say. |  |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:14 - Oct 2 with 7912 views | marcus1642 |
Yep. Sums things up very well indeed. I can see a new manager before the end of the season.
McGoldrick despite his class, is too injury prone and I'll be surprised if he gets a contract extension. |  | | |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:21 - Oct 2 with 7858 views | marcus1642 |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:01 - Oct 2 by TheBlueBarca |
Last season weirdly has bought the club a "Get out of Jail Free Card" in some respects, because we could finish 13th and everyone will point to progress but the reality is, we're still stuck in this league with a budget for the league below and rapidly declining fan base.
If anything Mick could be considered a miracle worker for what he's achieved here under Evans. We're very much punching above our weight with the existing squad and people are genuinely shocked that we're not in the bottom 5 again because let's face it, on paper that's where we should be.
So define progress?
A bigger question is, what is the owner really trying to achieve here because another few seasons of this he will be down to gates of 10k, have to reduce the budget further to make it manageable within his plans and thus even less competitive. I think we'll drop if we do not change our tune, I don't expect us to be spending millions but this season we started well and he had the chance to invest in a couple of decent defenders. Instead, we chased after two loans, one of which fell through because it relied on someone else, which s classic Evans ITFC and the other was that lad from Everton that looks like he's never seen a ball before.
Opportunity wasted I would say. |
Unless there is some kind of further investment in January from Evans, we simply won't progress.
As for quoting FFP rules, we all know FFP is a joke. Anybody know about the QPR ruling at all? | | | |
| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 13:23 - Oct 2 with 7853 views | Bloots |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:01 - Oct 2 by TheBlueBarca |
Last season weirdly has bought the club a "Get out of Jail Free Card" in some respects, because we could finish 13th and everyone will point to progress but the reality is, we're still stuck in this league with a budget for the league below and rapidly declining fan base.
If anything Mick could be considered a miracle worker for what he's achieved here under Evans. We're very much punching above our weight with the existing squad and people are genuinely shocked that we're not in the bottom 5 again because let's face it, on paper that's where we should be.
So define progress?
A bigger question is, what is the owner really trying to achieve here because another few seasons of this he will be down to gates of 10k, have to reduce the budget further to make it manageable within his plans and thus even less competitive. I think we'll drop if we do not change our tune, I don't expect us to be spending millions but this season we started well and he had the chance to invest in a couple of decent defenders. Instead, we chased after two loans, one of which fell through because it relied on someone else, which s classic Evans ITFC and the other was that lad from Everton that looks like he's never seen a ball before.
Opportunity wasted I would say. |
....the lack of stick our owner gets.
When we win, it's because of the players. When we lose, it's because of the manager.
Neither of those statements are correct in their entirety.
But the constant lack of understanding around the influence our lack of investment has is remarkable at best.
Bonkers. |  |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:24 - Oct 2 with 7843 views | hype313 |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:14 - Oct 2 by marcus1642 |
Yep. Sums things up very well indeed. I can see a new manager before the end of the season.
McGoldrick despite his class, is too injury prone and I'll be surprised if he gets a contract extension. |
I can't, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see Mick's contract getting extended, the only way I see him leaving is if he got offered a PL gig.
However I don't think a change in manager right now is the best option, think we will do OK this season, but probably finish between 10th and 15th, if that means Mick feels he's taken us as far as possible that's anyone's guess. |  |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:33 - Oct 2 with 7781 views | marcus1642 |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:24 - Oct 2 by hype313 |
I can't, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see Mick's contract getting extended, the only way I see him leaving is if he got offered a PL gig.
However I don't think a change in manager right now is the best option, think we will do OK this season, but probably finish between 10th and 15th, if that means Mick feels he's taken us as far as possible that's anyone's guess. |
The question has to be will Micky boy want a contract extension? will he be fed up with the lack of investment?.
I'm sure he could retire now, and be financially secure for the rest of his days. [Post edited 2 Oct 2017 13:34]
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| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 13:40 - Oct 2 with 7738 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 13:23 - Oct 2 by Bloots |
....the lack of stick our owner gets.
When we win, it's because of the players. When we lose, it's because of the manager.
Neither of those statements are correct in their entirety.
But the constant lack of understanding around the influence our lack of investment has is remarkable at best.
Bonkers. |
But there is then a fine line from understanding the lack of investment to those demanding the moon on a stick.
Yes we lack the spending power which a growing number of clubs in this league now have, and yes it hampers us. This needs to be acknowledged, absolutley. But many "fans" seem to conclude that we should automatically be spending tens of millions as some kind of right. As well as bringing on day yoof, cheaper tickets etc etc etc.
The club can't really win whatever it does now, in this ridiculously skewed league. Pump in a bit more money and we'll still be far behind many, pump in loads or sell to someone who will and it becomes a billionaires plaything that is further away from "the Ipswich way" than anything we moan about now.
Anyway I digress! Correct, lack of investment means we are hampered considerabley which should be factored in. Doesn't mean we have any divine right to investment or will ever get it at the level necessary. |  | | |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:40 - Oct 2 with 7731 views | textbackup |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:33 - Oct 2 by marcus1642 |
The question has to be will Micky boy want a contract extension? will he be fed up with the lack of investment?.
I'm sure he could retire now, and be financially secure for the rest of his days. [Post edited 2 Oct 2017 13:34]
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I'm sure he could, but if offered on a plate would you turn down £600k + a year for a couple of years to basically ensure a team didn't go down and that be your only goal? He doesn't even face a tough time from fans, because every time he gets questioned you have a bunch of people that have accepted mediocre football come out and support him.
Easiest job in football here at ITFC |  |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:46 - Oct 2 with 7716 views | chicoazul |
It's all just so pointless.
Go to the games, enjoy yourselves, have fun with your mates. That's it. |  |
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| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 13:49 - Oct 2 with 7692 views | Bloots |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:40 - Oct 2 by textbackup |
I'm sure he could, but if offered on a plate would you turn down £600k + a year for a couple of years to basically ensure a team didn't go down and that be your only goal? He doesn't even face a tough time from fans, because every time he gets questioned you have a bunch of people that have accepted mediocre football come out and support him.
Easiest job in football here at ITFC |
....we will only ever have mediocre players (and therefore mediocre football) because of the lack of investment?
As my old Nan used to say, "you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's bellend" (or something like that).
#evansout | |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:57 - Oct 2 with 7673 views | monty_radio |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:01 - Oct 2 by TheBlueBarca |
Last season weirdly has bought the club a "Get out of Jail Free Card" in some respects, because we could finish 13th and everyone will point to progress but the reality is, we're still stuck in this league with a budget for the league below and rapidly declining fan base.
If anything Mick could be considered a miracle worker for what he's achieved here under Evans. We're very much punching above our weight with the existing squad and people are genuinely shocked that we're not in the bottom 5 again because let's face it, on paper that's where we should be.
So define progress?
A bigger question is, what is the owner really trying to achieve here because another few seasons of this he will be down to gates of 10k, have to reduce the budget further to make it manageable within his plans and thus even less competitive. I think we'll drop if we do not change our tune, I don't expect us to be spending millions but this season we started well and he had the chance to invest in a couple of decent defenders. Instead, we chased after two loans, one of which fell through because it relied on someone else, which s classic Evans ITFC and the other was that lad from Everton that looks like he's never seen a ball before.
Opportunity wasted I would say. |
I find it strange that a considered piece like this should be allowed by the guardians, and indeed receive uppies after this defeat, but was inadmissable after the Fulham game when any such reflection would have been lumped with "the moaners".
Football is about support and enthusiasm so I understand why three or four wins dares anyone to say different, but the underlying trend has never gone away. We punch above our weight often, but also demonstrate that old trope that a good big'un (read skilled for big) will always beat a good littl'un.
Adeyemi and Huws together would make us a good deal better, yet, following on a second viewing of Saturday's highlights, the long-standing dearth of a competitive midfield is apparent in so many of the parts of the clip where you see 6 Town players in our own box and Bristol lining up on the D to take potshots.
We've spent our little allowance on forwards, whose supply dries up when the midfield meets the better sides. Bottom six victories cheer the heart, but they don't change the facts of under-investment. If the owner really decided to buck that trend, then sides like Bristol would appear decent, but no more than that. |  |
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| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 13:58 - Oct 2 with 7656 views | JimmyJazz |
| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 13:49 - Oct 2 by Bloots |
....we will only ever have mediocre players (and therefore mediocre football) because of the lack of investment?
As my old Nan used to say, "you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's bellend" (or something like that).
#evansout |
She probably just said 'purse out of a cow's bellend' leaving the start of a sentence to be found elsewhere as all your posts do. |  |
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| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 14:07 - Oct 2 with 7625 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 13:49 - Oct 2 by Bloots |
....we will only ever have mediocre players (and therefore mediocre football) because of the lack of investment?
As my old Nan used to say, "you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's bellend" (or something like that).
#evansout |
The trouble is, what's the alternative?
Genuinely? What are we realistically hoping for?
At the moment, we have middle of the road, mediocre football, some good, some bad, a "good" season every 5 or 6 a genuinely bad season, never(?). Some youth trickling through, some decent players seen. Mostly average. A lot of this due to the canny uninspired dealings of MM.
New owner, new manager, a bit more money. We could creep up towards the play offs, we could drop down and be worse off. Would probably play better football. Would that be enough to feel better about Ipswich, or would we still be mediocre mid table town, just with a slightly better style?
Are people genuinely demanding a far east billionaire take over with all the potential sh1t that goes with it? Again we could be great, promised land, we could be an absolute state with loads of big wage fancy dans on the books to moan about. Again would we be happier as fans? More than likely having the heart ripped out of the club, the fans meaning even less than they do now, the price of a season ticket paying for a hubcap on the reserve keepers bentley.
Basically football's screwed. Not sure I care which route we take, they all seem equally rubbish in there own way. Way too simple just to say sack the owner. | | | |
| Bristol spent about £12m on 3 players this summer.... on 14:09 - Oct 2 with 7612 views | Bloots |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:57 - Oct 2 by monty_radio |
I find it strange that a considered piece like this should be allowed by the guardians, and indeed receive uppies after this defeat, but was inadmissable after the Fulham game when any such reflection would have been lumped with "the moaners".
Football is about support and enthusiasm so I understand why three or four wins dares anyone to say different, but the underlying trend has never gone away. We punch above our weight often, but also demonstrate that old trope that a good big'un (read skilled for big) will always beat a good littl'un.
Adeyemi and Huws together would make us a good deal better, yet, following on a second viewing of Saturday's highlights, the long-standing dearth of a competitive midfield is apparent in so many of the parts of the clip where you see 6 Town players in our own box and Bristol lining up on the D to take potshots.
We've spent our little allowance on forwards, whose supply dries up when the midfield meets the better sides. Bottom six victories cheer the heart, but they don't change the facts of under-investment. If the owner really decided to buck that trend, then sides like Bristol would appear decent, but no more than that. |
....and whilst they were indeed better than us, they didn't play us off the park.
On this basis, To make up just the relative small difference in performance could take £10m or more in investment.
With the current level of investment, the only way we'll get out of this league is when McCarthy leaves. | |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 14:10 - Oct 2 with 7604 views | christiand |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:33 - Oct 2 by marcus1642 |
The question has to be will Micky boy want a contract extension? will he be fed up with the lack of investment?.
I'm sure he could retire now, and be financially secure for the rest of his days. [Post edited 2 Oct 2017 13:34]
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I agree with your sentiments Marcus. ME might offer MM a new contract, but I just wonder if he thinks I have had enough of this scrapping around in the bargain basement and not really getting much help from upstairs. 'Thanks, but no thanks Marcus - time to move on!' [Post edited 2 Oct 2017 14:41]
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| I expect Evans will do everything..... on 14:13 - Oct 2 with 7589 views | Bloots |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 14:10 - Oct 2 by christiand |
I agree with your sentiments Marcus. ME might offer MM a new contract, but I just wonder if he thinks I have had enough of this scrapping around in the bargain basement and not really getting much help from upstairs. 'Thanks, but no thanks Marcus - time to move on!' [Post edited 2 Oct 2017 14:41]
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....he can to convince him to stay.
McCarthy is taking it right up the "Gary" for Evans every single season.
When McCarthy goes Evans is screwed. | |
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| Bristol spent about £12m on 3 players this summer.... on 14:19 - Oct 2 with 7545 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Bristol spent about £12m on 3 players this summer.... on 14:09 - Oct 2 by Bloots |
....and whilst they were indeed better than us, they didn't play us off the park.
On this basis, To make up just the relative small difference in performance could take £10m or more in investment.
With the current level of investment, the only way we'll get out of this league is when McCarthy leaves. |
Exactly right about the money.
Conversely you could argue Mick has been the only one keeping us in this league and "competetive" given the budget.
So tens of millions later we could be a bit better off, or not. | | | |
| That was actually my argument..... on 14:29 - Oct 2 with 7496 views | Bloots |
| Bristol spent about £12m on 3 players this summer.... on 14:19 - Oct 2 by Axeldalai_lama |
Exactly right about the money.
Conversely you could argue Mick has been the only one keeping us in this league and "competetive" given the budget.
So tens of millions later we could be a bit better off, or not. |
...I was being a smartarse. (failing as usual)
The main point though, is that even a huge investment (by our standards) can often only have a marginal effect for teams. | |
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| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 14:35 - Oct 2 with 7474 views | PhilTWTD |
| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 13:23 - Oct 2 by Bloots |
....the lack of stick our owner gets.
When we win, it's because of the players. When we lose, it's because of the manager.
Neither of those statements are correct in their entirety.
But the constant lack of understanding around the influence our lack of investment has is remarkable at best.
Bonkers. |
But by lack of investment we're still talking about very significant investment every season, of course. Having a £17m+ wage bill for second tier football is, to coin the same phrase, bonkers and the spending at this level is utterly unsustainable.
The idea Town have a 'League One budget' as is suggested elsewhere in this thread is ridiculous. Our current budget would dwarf everyone barring maybe Blackburn or one or two others who recently spent time in the Championship. |  | | |
| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 14:41 - Oct 2 with 7437 views | nshearman1 |
| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 14:07 - Oct 2 by Axeldalai_lama |
The trouble is, what's the alternative?
Genuinely? What are we realistically hoping for?
At the moment, we have middle of the road, mediocre football, some good, some bad, a "good" season every 5 or 6 a genuinely bad season, never(?). Some youth trickling through, some decent players seen. Mostly average. A lot of this due to the canny uninspired dealings of MM.
New owner, new manager, a bit more money. We could creep up towards the play offs, we could drop down and be worse off. Would probably play better football. Would that be enough to feel better about Ipswich, or would we still be mediocre mid table town, just with a slightly better style?
Are people genuinely demanding a far east billionaire take over with all the potential sh1t that goes with it? Again we could be great, promised land, we could be an absolute state with loads of big wage fancy dans on the books to moan about. Again would we be happier as fans? More than likely having the heart ripped out of the club, the fans meaning even less than they do now, the price of a season ticket paying for a hubcap on the reserve keepers bentley.
Basically football's screwed. Not sure I care which route we take, they all seem equally rubbish in there own way. Way too simple just to say sack the owner. |
You're right, football is screwed, it's a money-madhouse, I hate it but somehow can't let go...
My feeling is that if we really want to progress we need to look at teams like Huddersfield, say thanks and goodbye to Mick for doing a great job in keeping us up and working on next to no money, and find a really talented young international manager who has an imaginative approach to tactics and coaching, and knows the international market from which he can bring in a bargain or two. Not at all easy to find, I know! Then ME or another owner (hopefully not one of those crooks from the far east) has to put in a minimum (and I'm going to stick my neck out here and be specific) of £15m in transfer fees alone. Those of us who are demanding more money is spent should not be constantly attacked and defined as wanting the Keane/Jewell levels of spending - we don't and we don't want the s***e they bought in either - but we have to spend this realistic amount (actually not much compared to some) to get out of this League. Our progress currently can be measured in inches, not feet.
Alternatively, we accept the status quo in the way Lama suggests. But that, to me, is merely managing decline of this once great club of ours. | | | |
| Whilst obviously wages have to be considered..... on 14:43 - Oct 2 with 7421 views | Bloots |
| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 14:35 - Oct 2 by PhilTWTD |
But by lack of investment we're still talking about very significant investment every season, of course. Having a £17m+ wage bill for second tier football is, to coin the same phrase, bonkers and the spending at this level is utterly unsustainable.
The idea Town have a 'League One budget' as is suggested elsewhere in this thread is ridiculous. Our current budget would dwarf everyone barring maybe Blackburn or one or two others who recently spent time in the Championship. |
....as an investment, they only really constitute squad "maintenance" though surely?
I appreciate that new players may be on big contracts (eg Huws) but they are a rarity.
The fact that can name the players that we assume are on a decent wage, shows the level we are at now.
Personally I think some of that "Investment" would be better spent on new players, rather than improving the contracts of the existing players.
......of course my original point was really about where the blame for our continued stagnancy should lie.
Here's to the next 700. | |
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| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 14:51 - Oct 2 with 7391 views | Archer4721 |
| Stuart Watson spot on in this piece for me on 13:46 - Oct 2 by chicoazul |
It's all just so pointless.
Go to the games, enjoy yourselves, have fun with your mates. That's it. |
This 100%.
If people can't do that then supporting a team like ITFC isn't really for them. |  | | |
| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 14:56 - Oct 2 with 7368 views | Illinoisblue |
| Agreed, I'm always amazed by..... on 14:35 - Oct 2 by PhilTWTD |
But by lack of investment we're still talking about very significant investment every season, of course. Having a £17m+ wage bill for second tier football is, to coin the same phrase, bonkers and the spending at this level is utterly unsustainable.
The idea Town have a 'League One budget' as is suggested elsewhere in this thread is ridiculous. Our current budget would dwarf everyone barring maybe Blackburn or one or two others who recently spent time in the Championship. |
yes it's bonkers but is it really unsustainable? All the rich and moderately rich owners seem happy to keep on pumping in millions. |  |
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| This is probably right, but..... on 15:00 - Oct 2 with 7346 views | Bloots |
| Or are they a bunch of people that accept..... on 14:41 - Oct 2 by nshearman1 |
You're right, football is screwed, it's a money-madhouse, I hate it but somehow can't let go...
My feeling is that if we really want to progress we need to look at teams like Huddersfield, say thanks and goodbye to Mick for doing a great job in keeping us up and working on next to no money, and find a really talented young international manager who has an imaginative approach to tactics and coaching, and knows the international market from which he can bring in a bargain or two. Not at all easy to find, I know! Then ME or another owner (hopefully not one of those crooks from the far east) has to put in a minimum (and I'm going to stick my neck out here and be specific) of £15m in transfer fees alone. Those of us who are demanding more money is spent should not be constantly attacked and defined as wanting the Keane/Jewell levels of spending - we don't and we don't want the s***e they bought in either - but we have to spend this realistic amount (actually not much compared to some) to get out of this League. Our progress currently can be measured in inches, not feet.
Alternatively, we accept the status quo in the way Lama suggests. But that, to me, is merely managing decline of this once great club of ours. |
....you don't take into account the risk of it all just going tits up.
For every David Wagner, there's an Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Or Remi Garde.
Or Rene Meulensteen | |
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