| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) 19:21 - Oct 13 with 14296 views | SpruceMoose |
Never mind, just seen he's injured.
Good. Hope he stays that way. [Post edited 13 Oct 2017 19:24]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:07 - Oct 14 with 5446 views | ITFC_Aylesbury |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 05:47 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
For the record, I wasn't excusing him, just asking why the labeling given the innocent verdict. The having sex with a drunk 19 year old with a mate if consented? Fine, whatever, happens all the time, nothing to see here. Cheating on a pregnant girlfriend? Scumbag, agreed. |
Point of order, he was found "not guilty", not "innocent".
World of difference. |  | | |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:15 - Oct 14 with 5436 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:07 - Oct 14 by ITFC_Aylesbury |
Point of order, he was found "not guilty", not "innocent".
World of difference. |
On the charge of rape he was found not guilty which is the same as a presumed innocence, there's zero difference in a court of law. What the public and the media deem to be innocence is open for interpretation but not when it comes to the letter of the law. |  |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:18 - Oct 14 with 5429 views | Herbivore |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 20:54 - Oct 13 by MattinLondon |
His personality wasn't on trial simply his innocence or guilt were and we all know the verdict.
The world is full of scumbags -but he was still found not guilty. |
Technically it's 1-1, we need a decider. The new evidence was basically some bloke saying that she's a slag who had done similar with him, had he not been a footballer with a very well-paid lawyer I doubt he'd have got a retrial on that 'new evidence'. The behaviour of his cronies towards the victim was horrific and he's not shown any sense of feeling he did anything wrong, even if it wasn't strictly illegal it was certainly shady as fck. |  |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:23 - Oct 14 with 5420 views | No9 |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 20:36 - Oct 13 by LankHenners |
Cheating on your pregnant girlfriend with a girl who's just about aware enough to tell you to fck her after your mate has very literally just done the same is the behaviour of a scumbag.
Because he's a footballer he gets defended as a 'top lad' by people with warped morals. |
As far as I know 'cheating' on your GF isn't a criminal offence.
You wouldn't be able to find enoigh space to house all those who have cheated on the GF /BF
As far as the law is concerned he's a free man
Let those who are without sin has the first stone |  | | |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:23 - Oct 14 with 5419 views | Herbivore |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:15 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
On the charge of rape he was found not guilty which is the same as a presumed innocence, there's zero difference in a court of law. What the public and the media deem to be innocence is open for interpretation but not when it comes to the letter of the law. |
That's not correct at all. The courts don't find anyone innocent and nor do they operate on the basis that if you are found not guilty that you are innocent, there is simply not the evidence to prove that you have committed the crime you've been accused of. Not guilty is a purely legal finding and is not synonymous with being innocent. Based on the evidence the verdict could easily have gone the other way (as it did in the first trial) but the 'new evidence' cast reasonable doubt about whether or not it was consensual and that's all that is needed for him to not be convicted. The jury could all have been 90% sure that she wasn't able to consent but that 10% doubt means they have to return a not guilty verdict. That doesn't make Ched 'innocent'. [Post edited 14 Oct 2017 8:25]
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 10:00 - Oct 14 with 5365 views | Throbbe |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 21:14 - Oct 13 by SpruceMoose |
Oof.
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Not the thread for it, but I can't miss an opportunity to remind everyone of this.
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 10:04 - Oct 14 with 5353 views | crunchie1978 |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 20:36 - Oct 13 by LankHenners |
Cheating on your pregnant girlfriend with a girl who's just about aware enough to tell you to fck her after your mate has very literally just done the same is the behaviour of a scumbag.
Because he's a footballer he gets defended as a 'top lad' by people with warped morals. |
Footballers in gangbang with drunk girl shocker! | | | |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 11:48 - Oct 14 with 5291 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 08:23 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
That's not correct at all. The courts don't find anyone innocent and nor do they operate on the basis that if you are found not guilty that you are innocent, there is simply not the evidence to prove that you have committed the crime you've been accused of. Not guilty is a purely legal finding and is not synonymous with being innocent. Based on the evidence the verdict could easily have gone the other way (as it did in the first trial) but the 'new evidence' cast reasonable doubt about whether or not it was consensual and that's all that is needed for him to not be convicted. The jury could all have been 90% sure that she wasn't able to consent but that 10% doubt means they have to return a not guilty verdict. That doesn't make Ched 'innocent'. [Post edited 14 Oct 2017 8:25]
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It is correct. If you're found not guilty you are presumed innocent. The word presumed is key. Not guilty doesn't prove your innocence but it is presumed if the verdict is not guilty. All charges are dropped so there's a presumption of innocence. | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 12:09 - Oct 14 with 5275 views | Herbivore |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 11:48 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
It is correct. If you're found not guilty you are presumed innocent. The word presumed is key. Not guilty doesn't prove your innocence but it is presumed if the verdict is not guilty. All charges are dropped so there's a presumption of innocence. |
No, you're misconstruing what the presumption of innocence actually is and how it functions in British law. The presumption of innocence essentially means that when you face trial you are presumed to be innocent of the crime and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove guilt, which differs from some other legal systems whereby guilt is presumed and the accused has to demonstrate their innocence. The law does not make any presumption of innocence post trial, it is entirely neutral on the innocence of the party. Our legal system means you are found guilty or not guilty with a guilty verdict needing to have been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt, which is a high threshold of proof. Being found not guilty is not synonymous with being found innocent. He hasn't proved his innocence, the prosecution couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty. [Post edited 14 Oct 2017 12:11]
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 13:04 - Oct 14 with 5230 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 12:09 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
No, you're misconstruing what the presumption of innocence actually is and how it functions in British law. The presumption of innocence essentially means that when you face trial you are presumed to be innocent of the crime and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove guilt, which differs from some other legal systems whereby guilt is presumed and the accused has to demonstrate their innocence. The law does not make any presumption of innocence post trial, it is entirely neutral on the innocence of the party. Our legal system means you are found guilty or not guilty with a guilty verdict needing to have been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt, which is a high threshold of proof. Being found not guilty is not synonymous with being found innocent. He hasn't proved his innocence, the prosecution couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty. [Post edited 14 Oct 2017 12:11]
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Indeed, similarly it always amuses me when people witter on about the Birmingham 6 being ‘innocent’. |  | | |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 13:32 - Oct 14 with 5199 views | Ryorry |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 06:52 - Oct 14 by peterleeblue |
Neither was I excusing him. He probably hates himself everyday. |
That's presuming a helluva lot, unless you were being ironic! But it does raise a crucial point - nobody really knows what the truth is and how those who were there (or involved because connected) feel, unless they were actually there, or connected. For some people, the worst punishment may well be having to live with themselves afterwards. |  |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 14:01 - Oct 14 with 5161 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 12:09 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
No, you're misconstruing what the presumption of innocence actually is and how it functions in British law. The presumption of innocence essentially means that when you face trial you are presumed to be innocent of the crime and the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove guilt, which differs from some other legal systems whereby guilt is presumed and the accused has to demonstrate their innocence. The law does not make any presumption of innocence post trial, it is entirely neutral on the innocence of the party. Our legal system means you are found guilty or not guilty with a guilty verdict needing to have been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt, which is a high threshold of proof. Being found not guilty is not synonymous with being found innocent. He hasn't proved his innocence, the prosecution couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty. [Post edited 14 Oct 2017 12:11]
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Just Google it, you're wrong.
"A jury cannot, and should not, prove that a defendant is innocent, they need only find that they are not guilty, and then they are assumed innocent in the eyes of the law as a matter of course (whether or not they are actually innocent or not is another matter entirely)" | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 14:13 - Oct 14 with 5142 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 14:01 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
Just Google it, you're wrong.
"A jury cannot, and should not, prove that a defendant is innocent, they need only find that they are not guilty, and then they are assumed innocent in the eyes of the law as a matter of course (whether or not they are actually innocent or not is another matter entirely)" |
Got a source for that? Because it sounds an awful lot like someone talking out of their blowhole. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 14:34 - Oct 14 with 5118 views | jpring89 |
Just a bit of harmless banter. Nothing to see here. | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:05 - Oct 14 with 5083 views | Herbivore |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 14:01 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
Just Google it, you're wrong.
"A jury cannot, and should not, prove that a defendant is innocent, they need only find that they are not guilty, and then they are assumed innocent in the eyes of the law as a matter of course (whether or not they are actually innocent or not is another matter entirely)" |
Ah if Google says so..... | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:12 - Oct 14 with 5075 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 14:13 - Oct 14 by SpruceMoose |
Got a source for that? Because it sounds an awful lot like someone talking out of their blowhole. |
Yep, Article 6 of the European Human Rights Convention - the right to a fair trial and the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. The same applies walking into court as it does leaving it. You walk in not guilty and if you leave not guilty, you're still presumed innocent...
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-6-right-fair-tri
Then again, you can read a Sun article which contradicts this but given the rule of Law vs (to use your term) a scumbag newspaper, i'll go with the law. | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:25 - Oct 14 with 5062 views | Herbivore |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:12 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
Yep, Article 6 of the European Human Rights Convention - the right to a fair trial and the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. The same applies walking into court as it does leaving it. You walk in not guilty and if you leave not guilty, you're still presumed innocent...
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-6-right-fair-tri
Then again, you can read a Sun article which contradicts this but given the rule of Law vs (to use your term) a scumbag newspaper, i'll go with the law. |
Just read Article 6, where does it state what you claim it states? It states you're innocent until proven guilty, it doesn't say in Article 6 that the same thing applies post trial. I've explained what the purpose of the presumption of innocence is when you're accused of a crime, the same function isn't served afterwards. Bad look from you to be making stuff up, mate. | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:27 - Oct 14 with 5053 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:25 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
Just read Article 6, where does it state what you claim it states? It states you're innocent until proven guilty, it doesn't say in Article 6 that the same thing applies post trial. I've explained what the purpose of the presumption of innocence is when you're accused of a crime, the same function isn't served afterwards. Bad look from you to be making stuff up, mate. |
That's another paddling. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 16:47 - Oct 14 with 5009 views | ClausThomsen |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 20:56 - Oct 13 by SpruceMoose |
I never mentioned the trial. I just said I thought he was a scumbag. The post above sets out why. What exactly are you objecting to? |
Why start a thread about how you think a complete stranger is a scumbag? | | | |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 16:56 - Oct 14 with 4995 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 16:47 - Oct 14 by ClausThomsen |
Why start a thread about how you think a complete stranger is a scumbag? |
I'm sure he'd appreciate your support | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:03 - Oct 14 with 4984 views | ClausThomsen |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 16:56 - Oct 14 by SpruceMoose |
I'm sure he'd appreciate your support |
I don't know him, and neither do you. | | | |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:24 - Oct 14 with 4964 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:25 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
Just read Article 6, where does it state what you claim it states? It states you're innocent until proven guilty, it doesn't say in Article 6 that the same thing applies post trial. I've explained what the purpose of the presumption of innocence is when you're accused of a crime, the same function isn't served afterwards. Bad look from you to be making stuff up, mate. |
You have the right to:
be presumed innocent until you are proven guilty...
Therefore if you are proven not guilty, there is a presumption of innocence regardless of what preceded it. Its a basic human right although not in your draconian eyes obviously. Again, the word, presumption is key which you seem to keep skipping over. Its not a fact, its a presumption meaning if they couldn't find a charge, you are presumed innocent. Provide a counter source...
Thanks for the patronising, sanctimonious retort at the end which is grounded in zero substance, mate. | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:29 - Oct 14 with 4958 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 15:27 - Oct 14 by SpruceMoose |
That's another paddling. |
You ask for a source, i provide a source. Your mate provides no source and its 'a paddling'? As non-sensical as the argument that human's, once found not guilty should be treated by anything less than what the law and peerage decrees ie: no evidence to support a guilty verdict, therefore no crime has been committed, therefore innocence is presumed. | |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:41 - Oct 14 with 4947 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:29 - Oct 14 by Keaneish |
You ask for a source, i provide a source. Your mate provides no source and its 'a paddling'? As non-sensical as the argument that human's, once found not guilty should be treated by anything less than what the law and peerage decrees ie: no evidence to support a guilty verdict, therefore no crime has been committed, therefore innocence is presumed. |
Sometimes it's hard to take a'paddling | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:44 - Oct 14 with 4945 views | Keaneish |
| Is that scumbag Ched Evans likely to feature tomorrow? N/T (n/t) on 17:41 - Oct 14 by SpruceMoose |
Sometimes it's hard to take a'paddling |
Back atchya with those paddles if you can be ars*d to read it....
I'll drop the mic and go and make some dinner now. Thanks, it's been fun. Tremendous amounts of fun and winning, of course.
https://www.forbessolicitors.co.uk/blog/2016/06/human-rights-not-breached-disclo | |
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