| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road 13:49 - Oct 15 with 27952 views | Swailsey |
I am.
*runs* |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
| |  |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:24 - Oct 15 with 5264 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:18 - Oct 15 by StNeotsBlue |
I don't wish to be rude but why should you be trying to educate anyone on here and by what rights are you in a position to educate, it implies your views, moral compass are on a different level to everyone else. |
The thread about a vegan fair and questions/points raised about veganism mostly.
If a load of office workers were debating aspects of building sites and a site manager showed up to the discussion, I'd assume it a reasonable time for them to provide their insight on the topic. |  |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:25 - Oct 15 with 5262 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:08 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
I've never claimed veganism is perfect, just that in relation to animal suffering and environmental impact it's factually better than a meat-inclusive diet. That's pretty black and white in my book, the grey areas sit within veganism itself rather than being between the two diets. |
I honestly think you'd be far more effective in your campaigning if (as J2 has said a few times I believe) you were less black & white, and a bit more laid back in your approach. People respond better to a few simple facts (eg re de-beaking) & being left to make up their own minds. |  |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:30 - Oct 15 with 5242 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:22 - Oct 15 by gordon |
It might not be black and white, but the environmental benefits of reduced meat consumption are well accepted and documented by the scientific literature on the subject. 90%+ (that's a conservative estimate) that's consumed in Europe is grown to feed animals. The cycle of rainforest destruction in South America is that when roads go through an area first subsistence farmers come in clearing small areas, then larger cattle ranchers are able to move in burning larger areas, and then years later the massive soy producers are able to get machinery in to farm intensively. |
Looks like they want to skip those first two stages nowadays:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/05/brazil-amazon-tapajos-hydrovia-sch
I already said in my post I acknowledge that most soy is used to feed animals, however that wasn't the point I was making was it.
The same level of soy production will still be required if everyone stops eating meat, it will just be consumed by humans. It will also still have to be shipped all over the world from the few(ish) places where it's grown.
SB [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:34]
|  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:34 - Oct 15 with 5234 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:22 - Oct 15 by gordon |
It might not be black and white, but the environmental benefits of reduced meat consumption are well accepted and documented by the scientific literature on the subject. 90%+ (that's a conservative estimate) that's consumed in Europe is grown to feed animals. The cycle of rainforest destruction in South America is that when roads go through an area first subsistence farmers come in clearing small areas, then larger cattle ranchers are able to move in burning larger areas, and then years later the massive soy producers are able to get machinery in to farm intensively. |
It's the water requirements which get me. I think it's something like half the world will face water shortages by 2025. I wish I could find the figures for the water it takes to product a single egg, pound of beef etc. It's insane. |  |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:37 - Oct 15 with 5230 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:34 - Oct 15 by J2BLUE |
It's the water requirements which get me. I think it's something like half the world will face water shortages by 2025. I wish I could find the figures for the water it takes to product a single egg, pound of beef etc. It's insane. |
The most water intensive food to produce on the planet is almonds (2126 gallons per pound of food). Luckily they are not one of the most eaten globally. Beef and walnuts follow behind but obviously beef is more eaten globally (I would think).
Interestingly soy is only 10 gallons behind chicken per pound of food:
http://www.ecology.com/2014/08/29/water-intensive-food-impact-california-drought
To answer your question, a pound of eggs takes 431 gallons.
SB [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:39]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:41 - Oct 15 with 5216 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:24 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
The thread about a vegan fair and questions/points raised about veganism mostly.
If a load of office workers were debating aspects of building sites and a site manager showed up to the discussion, I'd assume it a reasonable time for them to provide their insight on the topic. |
Not sure your analogy works, you are a vegan and good luck to you, but that doesn't put you in a position to educate me on anything. In the same way I wouldn't attempt to educate you on why it is great to eat meat, I'd just think the daft sod is missing out on some fantastic meals. |  | | |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:42 - Oct 15 with 5216 views | gordon |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:30 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue |
Looks like they want to skip those first two stages nowadays:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/05/brazil-amazon-tapajos-hydrovia-sch
I already said in my post I acknowledge that most soy is used to feed animals, however that wasn't the point I was making was it.
The same level of soy production will still be required if everyone stops eating meat, it will just be consumed by humans. It will also still have to be shipped all over the world from the few(ish) places where it's grown.
SB [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:34]
|
But hopefully most people, whether they are vegetarians/vegans/eat-eaters, and whether they are eating plant-based or animal products are aware that the food they eat, whatever it is, has an environmental footprint, and will have been produced on what was once wild land. The idea is simply to reduce our environmental footprint as much as possible by making the best possible choices with the information available.
The idea that vegetarianism or veganism is confounded somehow by the fact that there are environmental consequences of producing vegetables is a bit simplistic. If you were making a different point, I apologise, but it sounds like that's what you were trying to say. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 00:56 - Oct 16 with 5152 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:37 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue |
The most water intensive food to produce on the planet is almonds (2126 gallons per pound of food). Luckily they are not one of the most eaten globally. Beef and walnuts follow behind but obviously beef is more eaten globally (I would think).
Interestingly soy is only 10 gallons behind chicken per pound of food:
http://www.ecology.com/2014/08/29/water-intensive-food-impact-california-drought
To answer your question, a pound of eggs takes 431 gallons.
SB [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:39]
|
That's a misleading quote in that article. According to the original sources quoted, almonds need 8-16k m3 of water per ton of product, against beef 10-21k m3 per ton. Grass fed beef is more water intensive (21k per ton) and all types of beef production produces *much* higher CO2 emissions.
It's also a tad unfair comparison as a serving size of almonds is normally much smaller than beef and they have more than twice the calorific value of beef per unit weight. So they're not quite as bad as they are portrayed (although they are high water users).
Sorry, that's a bit of a dull post! |  |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 01:17 - Oct 16 with 5139 views | NewcyBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:59 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Every time I've tried educating on here I've been met with resistance. But then I had a DM from Newcy saying he was gonna give it a go. As I said, I think you're even open to the idea or you're not no matter how the point is made. I myself struggle to sugarcoat my side of the debate because in reality it's a gruesome topic. |
To be fair I said I was going to give it a shot purely for health reasons.
I wouldn't be able to say it is a change because of animal welfare. That would be a lie.
Certainly I am going over to more vegetable based and less meat based. But still having meat (just not every single meal like I used to). In fact I can go a few days without meat without noticing.
The Tyne Chease (eireblue?) suggested was actually quite nice on the Vegan Pizza, I reckon I could beat you in a Vegan cooking competition Callis!
MrsNewcy is a big meat eater (lucky me!), so mostly my Veg days are when she is at work or we go out.
I don't specifically select vegan or vegetarian but go with a healthier option. Usually I do end up with something off of the vegetarian menu.
I am definitely more aware of what I am putting into my body, and more importantly how my body reacts and how to manage it. Like I said, you deserve credit because you knew you wanted to be vegan, had a couple of wobbles, and still managed it.
I still believe you can have stuff in moderation. My guts are certainly healthier!
Always happy to have a Vegan cook off though Callis if you want to taste something delicious! |  |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 05:23 - Oct 16 with 5106 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 00:56 - Oct 16 by Swansea_Blue |
That's a misleading quote in that article. According to the original sources quoted, almonds need 8-16k m3 of water per ton of product, against beef 10-21k m3 per ton. Grass fed beef is more water intensive (21k per ton) and all types of beef production produces *much* higher CO2 emissions.
It's also a tad unfair comparison as a serving size of almonds is normally much smaller than beef and they have more than twice the calorific value of beef per unit weight. So they're not quite as bad as they are portrayed (although they are high water users).
Sorry, that's a bit of a dull post! |
Possibly dull but a fair post. I certainly hadn't the time to independently verify all the numbers in the chart, was just finding a source for J2.
How does portion size matter when the water is per pound (Imperial) of meat? That is water for a defined portion size. I also said beef was far more widely eaten.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 07:50 - Oct 16 with 5081 views | gordon |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 00:56 - Oct 16 by Swansea_Blue |
That's a misleading quote in that article. According to the original sources quoted, almonds need 8-16k m3 of water per ton of product, against beef 10-21k m3 per ton. Grass fed beef is more water intensive (21k per ton) and all types of beef production produces *much* higher CO2 emissions.
It's also a tad unfair comparison as a serving size of almonds is normally much smaller than beef and they have more than twice the calorific value of beef per unit weight. So they're not quite as bad as they are portrayed (although they are high water users).
Sorry, that's a bit of a dull post! |
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4372775/
There's a good paper of the different GHG emissions associated with different levels of meat eating, with decent sample sizes. | | | |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 08:44 - Oct 16 with 5062 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:24 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
The thread about a vegan fair and questions/points raised about veganism mostly.
If a load of office workers were debating aspects of building sites and a site manager showed up to the discussion, I'd assume it a reasonable time for them to provide their insight on the topic. |
I can't wait for the day that you decide you can't be bothered to keep up with these views and start eating meat again.
You've done more to promote meat eating than most of this board. #tacoboy |  |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 08:50 - Oct 16 with 5053 views | yorkshireblue |
Hijacking the thread just to say I ate at the wonderful Bundobust last week. An award winning vegetarian restaurant last week.And would highly recommend anyone who is in Leeds or Manchester to give it a try https://bundobust.com/leeds/ - Great beer, great food.
I'm a meat eater, and some friends have recently just started 'Meat Free Monday' and seem to be enjoying, and is something I can see myself getting on-board with. |  | | |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:24 - Oct 16 with 5023 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:42 - Oct 15 by gordon |
But hopefully most people, whether they are vegetarians/vegans/eat-eaters, and whether they are eating plant-based or animal products are aware that the food they eat, whatever it is, has an environmental footprint, and will have been produced on what was once wild land. The idea is simply to reduce our environmental footprint as much as possible by making the best possible choices with the information available.
The idea that vegetarianism or veganism is confounded somehow by the fact that there are environmental consequences of producing vegetables is a bit simplistic. If you were making a different point, I apologise, but it sounds like that's what you were trying to say. |
Those are fair points but it wasn't the point I was making. I wasn't even making an environmental point at that stage.
I was pointing out that animals were killed to make way for the soy crops he used (he discussed his soy bacon even today) and that things weren't black and white in all cases. He said he was against killing animals in all cases but clearly in this case it's just one of those things hence shades of grey do exist. We have been trying to tell him this for months.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2017 9:31]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:25 - Oct 16 with 5021 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 08:50 - Oct 16 by yorkshireblue |
Hijacking the thread just to say I ate at the wonderful Bundobust last week. An award winning vegetarian restaurant last week.And would highly recommend anyone who is in Leeds or Manchester to give it a try https://bundobust.com/leeds/ - Great beer, great food.
I'm a meat eater, and some friends have recently just started 'Meat Free Monday' and seem to be enjoying, and is something I can see myself getting on-board with. |
This is certainly the way forward for many I think - having a few meat free days a week certainly can't hurt.
Won't be enough for some people though unfortunately.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:26 - Oct 16 with 5015 views | StokieBlue |
That's interesting but a slightly different point to water consumption. All very valid though.
Do you have any articles/papers on what the effect on GHG emissions will be if everyone became vegetarian and we had to increase the production of veggies for everyone? There would certainly be an effect but would be interesting to see that versus current emissions from the farming industry. Would also be interesting to see the same for water consumption.
Obviously not your job to find all that information so if you don't have it to hand then don't worry and don't go searching for it - spend your time more wisely :).
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:45 - Oct 16 with 4989 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 08:44 - Oct 16 by RoyKeanesDog |
I can't wait for the day that you decide you can't be bothered to keep up with these views and start eating meat again.
You've done more to promote meat eating than most of this board. #tacoboy |
Nothing I can say or do will change your mind though, as I said earlier, you're either receptive to the concept or you are not. I'd rather people just say (like Texters) I don't care than use defence mechanisms to project their own problems onto others and shift blame. | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:49 - Oct 16 with 4984 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:41 - Oct 15 by StNeotsBlue |
Not sure your analogy works, you are a vegan and good luck to you, but that doesn't put you in a position to educate me on anything. In the same way I wouldn't attempt to educate you on why it is great to eat meat, I'd just think the daft sod is missing out on some fantastic meals. |
I'm not forcing anyone to listen or agree with me. Like any debate, I'm just stating my opinion with evidence.
It's strange how people react when discussing veganism vs other topics. In almost any other scenario you'd consider the person practicing it a half decent authority and respect their right to an opinion, as well as consider it insightful. Make the discussion about meat consumption and suddenly people don't want to know or want to know what gives you the right to talk about it. | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:50 - Oct 16 with 4981 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 01:17 - Oct 16 by NewcyBlue |
To be fair I said I was going to give it a shot purely for health reasons.
I wouldn't be able to say it is a change because of animal welfare. That would be a lie.
Certainly I am going over to more vegetable based and less meat based. But still having meat (just not every single meal like I used to). In fact I can go a few days without meat without noticing.
The Tyne Chease (eireblue?) suggested was actually quite nice on the Vegan Pizza, I reckon I could beat you in a Vegan cooking competition Callis!
MrsNewcy is a big meat eater (lucky me!), so mostly my Veg days are when she is at work or we go out.
I don't specifically select vegan or vegetarian but go with a healthier option. Usually I do end up with something off of the vegetarian menu.
I am definitely more aware of what I am putting into my body, and more importantly how my body reacts and how to manage it. Like I said, you deserve credit because you knew you wanted to be vegan, had a couple of wobbles, and still managed it.
I still believe you can have stuff in moderation. My guts are certainly healthier!
Always happy to have a Vegan cook off though Callis if you want to taste something delicious! |
Challenge accepted. My pizza is GOD. | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:53 - Oct 16 with 4978 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:45 - Oct 16 by monytowbray |
Nothing I can say or do will change your mind though, as I said earlier, you're either receptive to the concept or you are not. I'd rather people just say (like Texters) I don't care than use defence mechanisms to project their own problems onto others and shift blame. |
Yes, I echo what Texters says- I haven't tried to pretend otherwise. | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 11:11 - Oct 16 with 4942 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 09:45 - Oct 16 by monytowbray |
Nothing I can say or do will change your mind though, as I said earlier, you're either receptive to the concept or you are not. I'd rather people just say (like Texters) I don't care than use defence mechanisms to project their own problems onto others and shift blame. |
"use defence mechanisms to project their own problems onto others and shift blame. "
And that kind of tone and language are exactly how you alienate people who might otherwise be at least half-sympathetic/interested in the argument for veganism, and are actually counter-productive to the cause you espouse. | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 12:04 - Oct 16 with 4907 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 05:23 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
Possibly dull but a fair post. I certainly hadn't the time to independently verify all the numbers in the chart, was just finding a source for J2.
How does portion size matter when the water is per pound (Imperial) of meat? That is water for a defined portion size. I also said beef was far more widely eaten.
SB |
Cheers. I probably look a bit daft saying I couldn't find the numbers when I could just google them but I was looking for a specific graph on a very balanced and fair site I go on regularly called Precision Nutrition. Their approach is excellent IMO. They reject labels like vegan/vegetarian etc and instead encourage a plant based diet. They say plant based can mean anything from trying to eat more plants to being 100% plant based. A different name takes away the absolutes of being vegan for example. On a plant based diet if a vegan has a moment of weakness and eats a cheeseburger it's not a disastrous end to their vegan diet but simply a part of their plant based diet. Same with meat eaters. The name gives 'permission' for people to make the effort of eating more plant based meals while allowing the flexibility to have a meat meal with the family or when they're at a restaurant etc.
When you think about it something like this makes so much sense. It's such a little thing but changing the language of the debate breaks down so many walls and meat eaters don't have to 'back down' to the vegan argument to make more of an effort. | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 12:27 - Oct 16 with 4876 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:37 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue |
The most water intensive food to produce on the planet is almonds (2126 gallons per pound of food). Luckily they are not one of the most eaten globally. Beef and walnuts follow behind but obviously beef is more eaten globally (I would think).
Interestingly soy is only 10 gallons behind chicken per pound of food:
http://www.ecology.com/2014/08/29/water-intensive-food-impact-california-drought
To answer your question, a pound of eggs takes 431 gallons.
SB [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:39]
|
I think the almonds/water consumption problem is mainly applicable to California, not Spain, and personally I try to source my almonds/almond drinks from Spain.
Anyway, at least the water used for growing almonds can be returned to the water cycle untreated, unlike the far worse problem of the billions of gallons required for fracking, which becomes toxic in the process -
http://mashable.com/2016/10/06/fracking-water-use/#3tRFkgPOVOqQ | |
| |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 13:28 - Oct 16 with 4838 views | north_stand77 |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 08:50 - Oct 16 by yorkshireblue |
Hijacking the thread just to say I ate at the wonderful Bundobust last week. An award winning vegetarian restaurant last week.And would highly recommend anyone who is in Leeds or Manchester to give it a try https://bundobust.com/leeds/ - Great beer, great food.
I'm a meat eater, and some friends have recently just started 'Meat Free Monday' and seem to be enjoying, and is something I can see myself getting on-board with. |
If you are in sunny Suffolk at all, try The Walnut Tree at Scole on the A140 or The Red Lion at Gt Bricett. We regularly go with a mix of veggie and meat-eating friends and we all love the tasty clean food that's served. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
