| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' 08:38 - Oct 16 with 28304 views | WeWereZombies |
Not a quote from me from the former head of the civil service Sir Bob Kerslake:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/lesley-riddoch-brexit-crisis-more-calamitou
Whether you are Remain or Leave there are some interesting points to chew over in the above article, the one I find most intriguing is the view that we are at the moment being ruled by a coalition and we will be whoever wins the next election.
'The Labour leadership, while notionally pro-Remain, really want to leave while the Tory leadership, who are pushing through Brexit, are on the whole in favour of remaining. The Labour leadership has to argue half-heartedly for Remain to hold its coalition together and the Conservative leadership has to argue unconvincingly about the benefits of leaving to hold its coalition together.'
And, oh, the cost -
'We need at least a four-year transition period and we are nowhere near starting proper talks about trading relationships because we need to sort the payment issue out. £50 billion looks like a lot of money but in the scheme of government spending, it isn’t.'
So if you are wondering why that £330m a week isn't being spent on the NHS, well that's three years worth of it right there - at least the transition period is down from the ten years mooted by Deloittes at the start of the year, no mention of the 30,000 extra civil servants they suggested though.
Still, at least we can flounce off and join the other five countries who exist without trade deals. |  |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 23:07 - Oct 16 with 3379 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 19:33 - Oct 16 by J2BLUE |
Yes, you posted a vague list of things and said things like the city of London needs to lose a lot or it won't really have been a hard brexit which is just odd to me. Even the strongest Brexiters want the city to remain the European financial centre. You've just created your own list of things tailored to your end goal of denying any meaningful Brexit ever happened.
If you said things like we won't leave the single market etc that would be fair enough but you haven't. |
"the city of London needs to lose a lot or it won't really have been a hard brexit"
That's a bit of a misquote.
If the status of the City, Ireland and Gibraltar don't change it's not really a Brexit. But of course the City is the big one.
Additionally, over 50,000 EU laws have been adopted in Britain since the referendum.
On top of that, there have been numerous defence deals made with other EU countries since the referendum which is setting Britain up for its role in PESCO (permanent structured co-operation in defence among EU member countries). Now I haven't heard the UK media talk about PESCO at all, but it's pretty significant as Britain - supposedly going out of Europe - will be a part of this EU member defence agreement. This is what has been going on with all of Britain's negotiations, but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals.
http://www.janes.com/article/74429/eu-nato-officials-propose-military-schengen
The truth is Britain has entangled itself deeper into Europe since the referendum - that's not Brexit at all.
What sort of Brexit can we actually have when we tie ourselves up in the EU defence structure and adopt thousands of EU laws?
Seriously, what are you expecting from these talks that suggests that Brexit is going to happen in any form? I hope you can answer that question, because no one in this thread seems to be offering any evidence that Britain is exiting the EU.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 1:07]
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 01:40 - Oct 17 with 3347 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 23:07 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
"the city of London needs to lose a lot or it won't really have been a hard brexit"
That's a bit of a misquote.
If the status of the City, Ireland and Gibraltar don't change it's not really a Brexit. But of course the City is the big one.
Additionally, over 50,000 EU laws have been adopted in Britain since the referendum.
On top of that, there have been numerous defence deals made with other EU countries since the referendum which is setting Britain up for its role in PESCO (permanent structured co-operation in defence among EU member countries). Now I haven't heard the UK media talk about PESCO at all, but it's pretty significant as Britain - supposedly going out of Europe - will be a part of this EU member defence agreement. This is what has been going on with all of Britain's negotiations, but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals.
http://www.janes.com/article/74429/eu-nato-officials-propose-military-schengen
The truth is Britain has entangled itself deeper into Europe since the referendum - that's not Brexit at all.
What sort of Brexit can we actually have when we tie ourselves up in the EU defence structure and adopt thousands of EU laws?
Seriously, what are you expecting from these talks that suggests that Brexit is going to happen in any form? I hope you can answer that question, because no one in this thread seems to be offering any evidence that Britain is exiting the EU.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 1:07]
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Ah, but we're taking control of those laws and they'll be our laws on the day we officially leave. 😉
Not sure what else we can do about defence as it's largely a multilateral issue these days be it with our closest neighbours or countries further afield.
Space is another one - we're not suddenly going to pull out of all ESA operations (presumably). Largest multilateral science projects (eg the LHC), etc.
Brexit means Brexit means migration controls (unless we need them or they have money we want). That's what this will all be judged on by the electorate. |  |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 07:05 - Oct 17 with 3320 views | gordon |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 23:07 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
"the city of London needs to lose a lot or it won't really have been a hard brexit"
That's a bit of a misquote.
If the status of the City, Ireland and Gibraltar don't change it's not really a Brexit. But of course the City is the big one.
Additionally, over 50,000 EU laws have been adopted in Britain since the referendum.
On top of that, there have been numerous defence deals made with other EU countries since the referendum which is setting Britain up for its role in PESCO (permanent structured co-operation in defence among EU member countries). Now I haven't heard the UK media talk about PESCO at all, but it's pretty significant as Britain - supposedly going out of Europe - will be a part of this EU member defence agreement. This is what has been going on with all of Britain's negotiations, but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals.
http://www.janes.com/article/74429/eu-nato-officials-propose-military-schengen
The truth is Britain has entangled itself deeper into Europe since the referendum - that's not Brexit at all.
What sort of Brexit can we actually have when we tie ourselves up in the EU defence structure and adopt thousands of EU laws?
Seriously, what are you expecting from these talks that suggests that Brexit is going to happen in any form? I hope you can answer that question, because no one in this thread seems to be offering any evidence that Britain is exiting the EU.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 1:07]
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You probably want to quickly fact check that 50,000 new EU laws since the referendum figure! |  | | |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 08:03 - Oct 17 with 3302 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 23:07 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
"the city of London needs to lose a lot or it won't really have been a hard brexit"
That's a bit of a misquote.
If the status of the City, Ireland and Gibraltar don't change it's not really a Brexit. But of course the City is the big one.
Additionally, over 50,000 EU laws have been adopted in Britain since the referendum.
On top of that, there have been numerous defence deals made with other EU countries since the referendum which is setting Britain up for its role in PESCO (permanent structured co-operation in defence among EU member countries). Now I haven't heard the UK media talk about PESCO at all, but it's pretty significant as Britain - supposedly going out of Europe - will be a part of this EU member defence agreement. This is what has been going on with all of Britain's negotiations, but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals.
http://www.janes.com/article/74429/eu-nato-officials-propose-military-schengen
The truth is Britain has entangled itself deeper into Europe since the referendum - that's not Brexit at all.
What sort of Brexit can we actually have when we tie ourselves up in the EU defence structure and adopt thousands of EU laws?
Seriously, what are you expecting from these talks that suggests that Brexit is going to happen in any form? I hope you can answer that question, because no one in this thread seems to be offering any evidence that Britain is exiting the EU.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 1:07]
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“but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals”
You do realise that talks on trade deals haven’t even started yet and won’t do so until the divorce bill has been agreed? |  |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:33 - Oct 17 with 3268 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 08:03 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue |
“but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals”
You do realise that talks on trade deals haven’t even started yet and won’t do so until the divorce bill has been agreed? |
I apologise I should have said:
“but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock over Northern Ireland, money to pay and the movement of EU citizens in the UK and vice versa. ”
I thought there were trade discussions going on too. Thanks for the correction.
Anyway, all we are hearing about are the deadlocks - but Fallon and Boris' very fruitful PESCO discussions are not getting an airing in the UK at all as far as I can tell. I wonder why? | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:43 - Oct 17 with 3261 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 07:05 - Oct 17 by gordon |
You probably want to quickly fact check that 50,000 new EU laws since the referendum figure! |
OK, perhaps not since the referendum - but they're scheduled to happen should the Great Repeal Bill (GRB) get passed.
Anyway, with May's GRB at the centre of her Brexit plans, I don't really understand how we're leaving EU when before doing so we adopt 50,000 EU laws. Any Brexit that might happen looks set to be a Brexit in name only - we're just entangling ourselves more deeply within Europe rather than leaving it.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3200657/more-than-50000-eu-laws-will-be-brought-on | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:45 - Oct 17 with 3259 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 01:40 - Oct 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Ah, but we're taking control of those laws and they'll be our laws on the day we officially leave. 😉
Not sure what else we can do about defence as it's largely a multilateral issue these days be it with our closest neighbours or countries further afield.
Space is another one - we're not suddenly going to pull out of all ESA operations (presumably). Largest multilateral science projects (eg the LHC), etc.
Brexit means Brexit means migration controls (unless we need them or they have money we want). That's what this will all be judged on by the electorate. |
In other words, Brexit schmexit. | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:45 - Oct 17 with 3266 views | blueislander |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:33 - Oct 17 by caught-in-limbo |
I apologise I should have said:
“but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock over Northern Ireland, money to pay and the movement of EU citizens in the UK and vice versa. ”
I thought there were trade discussions going on too. Thanks for the correction.
Anyway, all we are hearing about are the deadlocks - but Fallon and Boris' very fruitful PESCO discussions are not getting an airing in the UK at all as far as I can tell. I wonder why? |
I haven't heard too much about dreadlocks to be honest. Who is negotiating for the rastafarians? |  | | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:54 - Oct 17 with 3251 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:45 - Oct 17 by blueislander |
I haven't heard too much about dreadlocks to be honest. Who is negotiating for the rastafarians? |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:59 - Oct 17 with 3242 views | StokieBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:43 - Oct 17 by caught-in-limbo |
OK, perhaps not since the referendum - but they're scheduled to happen should the Great Repeal Bill (GRB) get passed.
Anyway, with May's GRB at the centre of her Brexit plans, I don't really understand how we're leaving EU when before doing so we adopt 50,000 EU laws. Any Brexit that might happen looks set to be a Brexit in name only - we're just entangling ourselves more deeply within Europe rather than leaving it.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3200657/more-than-50000-eu-laws-will-be-brought-on |
Surely this is a sensible approach?
We are already subject to those laws so moving them over to UK law maintains consistency. Whether they diverge over time is a completely different matter and one for the UK to decide.
I'm not really sure what you expected to happen? Should we just have left without rules governing certain things (where the current laws are EU laws).
It's also interesting that you have linked to a media outlet as your source - I thought the media weren't reporting relevant points about brexit to the populace yet you seem to think this is a very important and relevant point?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:01 - Oct 17 with 3239 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:45 - Oct 17 by blueislander |
I haven't heard too much about dreadlocks to be honest. Who is negotiating for the rastafarians? |
Theresa May. No Woman No Cry.
Davis, Boris and Hammond. Three Little Birds.
Labour and Corbyn having an agreed psotion on Brexit. Waiting in Vain.
Jean Claude Junker. Stir it Up.
The day we leave. One Love/People Get Ready. | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:08 - Oct 17 with 3229 views | No9 |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 11:29 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
Of course it has something to do with Labour, they are the opposition, it's their job to hold the government to account on things like brexit, not bury their heads in the sand and pretend it will go away so they can't get blamed for anything.
All the union was consulted during the general election and the referendum. How should they be consulted?
I am completely confused what your point/position is.
SB |
The governemnt has cut other parties out of the negotiations and is not informing parliament about its intentions. It cannot say what it's objectives really are because the party is split badly - listen to Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve eat al V Brexiteers + Redwood, Bone, Cash et al.
While the EU publish minutes of meeting etc, so we can see what is going on the UK government tell us nothing which raises a number of questions -
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-withdrawal-bill-debate-delayed-
Admit it- if we had any other colour party in governemtn we would not be goign through this very costly stupidity -
& do you really think the tories are going to keep quite whichever way it goes?
Ken Clarke claims there are only a handful of RW tory MP's creating this so why is the PM so weak that dealing with it means the whole country has to be held to randsome? | | | |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:10 - Oct 17 with 3222 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 09:59 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
Surely this is a sensible approach?
We are already subject to those laws so moving them over to UK law maintains consistency. Whether they diverge over time is a completely different matter and one for the UK to decide.
I'm not really sure what you expected to happen? Should we just have left without rules governing certain things (where the current laws are EU laws).
It's also interesting that you have linked to a media outlet as your source - I thought the media weren't reporting relevant points about brexit to the populace yet you seem to think this is a very important and relevant point?
SB |
No, my complaint as always is the fact that there is little to no investigative journalism going on. Some things are just going unreported by the mainstream press. Only what the government wants us to know is being reported. I've illustrated this point in this thread with PESCO.
Had you ever heard of PESCO before?
Oh, and while we're conversing, perhaps an answer to my question from yesterday, please:
How do you see the Brexit being resolved? | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:12 - Oct 17 with 3219 views | StokieBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:08 - Oct 17 by No9 |
The governemnt has cut other parties out of the negotiations and is not informing parliament about its intentions. It cannot say what it's objectives really are because the party is split badly - listen to Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve eat al V Brexiteers + Redwood, Bone, Cash et al.
While the EU publish minutes of meeting etc, so we can see what is going on the UK government tell us nothing which raises a number of questions -
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-withdrawal-bill-debate-delayed-
Admit it- if we had any other colour party in governemtn we would not be goign through this very costly stupidity -
& do you really think the tories are going to keep quite whichever way it goes?
Ken Clarke claims there are only a handful of RW tory MP's creating this so why is the PM so weak that dealing with it means the whole country has to be held to randsome? |
You've missed the entire point of my post because you are Tory obsessed.
Not many governments would include the opposition in any negotiations, can you find an instance of such a thing happened? They are in government thus they make the decisions (good or bad). It's Labour job to hold them to account and they are not doing that. It's also their job to offer an alternative if things aren't going well or the public wants it and they aren't doing that on brexit either.
The Tories are making a mess of it but to absolve other parties of blame is ridiculous. They haven't offered alternatives, they haven't offered another vote and they haven't held the government to account.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:12 - Oct 17 with 3222 views | WeWereZombies |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 07:05 - Oct 17 by gordon |
You probably want to quickly fact check that 50,000 new EU laws since the referendum figure! |
Fact check? I want her to list them... | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:17 - Oct 17 with 3209 views | StokieBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:10 - Oct 17 by caught-in-limbo |
No, my complaint as always is the fact that there is little to no investigative journalism going on. Some things are just going unreported by the mainstream press. Only what the government wants us to know is being reported. I've illustrated this point in this thread with PESCO.
Had you ever heard of PESCO before?
Oh, and while we're conversing, perhaps an answer to my question from yesterday, please:
How do you see the Brexit being resolved? |
I haven't entered the discussion with regards to my view on Brexit, I was pulling you up on your clearly nonsense point which you still refuse to acknowledge.
That doesn't give you the right to demand answers for any questions you want in order to deflect the debate away from points relevant to your post that you don't want to answer.
Why do you think it gives you the right to do that?
PESCO is part of the Lisbon treaty, it should be discussed as military co-operation is something that will be required post-brexit. Maybe they will report more when something has actually been agreed or would you prefer they report speculation?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:30 - Oct 17 with 3193 views | No9 |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:12 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
You've missed the entire point of my post because you are Tory obsessed.
Not many governments would include the opposition in any negotiations, can you find an instance of such a thing happened? They are in government thus they make the decisions (good or bad). It's Labour job to hold them to account and they are not doing that. It's also their job to offer an alternative if things aren't going well or the public wants it and they aren't doing that on brexit either.
The Tories are making a mess of it but to absolve other parties of blame is ridiculous. They haven't offered alternatives, they haven't offered another vote and they haven't held the government to account.
SB |
It is you who are are tory obsessed you cannot see what is goin g on or don't want to?
The tories were defeat, in the referendum on their cornerstone economic and foreign policies - the PM resigned the party didn't & has, ever since been trying to usurp parliament using what have been described as Henry the 8th tactic, tactic also employed by the nazis - you seem to think that is OK when in fact it is designed to NOT allow opponents to speak up.
Do you really agree with all the laws imported from EU legislation being subjected to becoming S.I.'s with no parliamentary scrutiny - & labour = other have objected to this.
Handing circa £1.5 bn to bribe the DUP - to give them a majority isn't real democracy is it? Or only giving private briefings to the DM & Murdoch isn't democracy is it?
Labur are holding the governemtn to account on Brexit - you should watch Kier Starmer. Labour are holding the government to account on womens pensions to the exten tthe DUOP will vote with labour against the government.
BUT you refuse to acknowledge that despite everything the tories have been warring over the EU ever since we joined. | | | |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:31 - Oct 17 with 3190 views | No9 |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 23:07 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
"the city of London needs to lose a lot or it won't really have been a hard brexit"
That's a bit of a misquote.
If the status of the City, Ireland and Gibraltar don't change it's not really a Brexit. But of course the City is the big one.
Additionally, over 50,000 EU laws have been adopted in Britain since the referendum.
On top of that, there have been numerous defence deals made with other EU countries since the referendum which is setting Britain up for its role in PESCO (permanent structured co-operation in defence among EU member countries). Now I haven't heard the UK media talk about PESCO at all, but it's pretty significant as Britain - supposedly going out of Europe - will be a part of this EU member defence agreement. This is what has been going on with all of Britain's negotiations, but all that is being reported is a supposed deadlock on trade deals.
http://www.janes.com/article/74429/eu-nato-officials-propose-military-schengen
The truth is Britain has entangled itself deeper into Europe since the referendum - that's not Brexit at all.
What sort of Brexit can we actually have when we tie ourselves up in the EU defence structure and adopt thousands of EU laws?
Seriously, what are you expecting from these talks that suggests that Brexit is going to happen in any form? I hope you can answer that question, because no one in this thread seems to be offering any evidence that Britain is exiting the EU.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 1:07]
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& one of the main brexiteers has handed out large Euro value contracts to EU contractors | | | |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:35 - Oct 17 with 3190 views | WeWereZombies |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:01 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Theresa May. No Woman No Cry.
Davis, Boris and Hammond. Three Little Birds.
Labour and Corbyn having an agreed psotion on Brexit. Waiting in Vain.
Jean Claude Junker. Stir it Up.
The day we leave. One Love/People Get Ready. |
You see, despite your earlier post I knew you were Burnin' to join in.
Whosoever diggeth the pit
Shall fall in it (fall in it) | |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:36 - Oct 17 with 3188 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:17 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
I haven't entered the discussion with regards to my view on Brexit, I was pulling you up on your clearly nonsense point which you still refuse to acknowledge.
That doesn't give you the right to demand answers for any questions you want in order to deflect the debate away from points relevant to your post that you don't want to answer.
Why do you think it gives you the right to do that?
PESCO is part of the Lisbon treaty, it should be discussed as military co-operation is something that will be required post-brexit. Maybe they will report more when something has actually been agreed or would you prefer they report speculation?
SB |
Am I not allowed to ask you for your views on Brexit?
It seems a perfectly reasonable thing to ask in a thread about the topic.
I'm not demanding answers from you, I'm asking what your views on Brexit are.
You seem to have reacted very strongly to the simple question with your very flouncy "Why do you think it gives you the right to do that? "
Why all the mystery and subsequent over-reaction?
EDIT: And I have answered your question, twice. You just don't like my answer for some reason. [Post edited 17 Oct 2017 10:38]
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:46 - Oct 17 with 3178 views | StokieBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:30 - Oct 17 by No9 |
It is you who are are tory obsessed you cannot see what is goin g on or don't want to?
The tories were defeat, in the referendum on their cornerstone economic and foreign policies - the PM resigned the party didn't & has, ever since been trying to usurp parliament using what have been described as Henry the 8th tactic, tactic also employed by the nazis - you seem to think that is OK when in fact it is designed to NOT allow opponents to speak up.
Do you really agree with all the laws imported from EU legislation being subjected to becoming S.I.'s with no parliamentary scrutiny - & labour = other have objected to this.
Handing circa £1.5 bn to bribe the DUP - to give them a majority isn't real democracy is it? Or only giving private briefings to the DM & Murdoch isn't democracy is it?
Labur are holding the governemtn to account on Brexit - you should watch Kier Starmer. Labour are holding the government to account on womens pensions to the exten tthe DUOP will vote with labour against the government.
BUT you refuse to acknowledge that despite everything the tories have been warring over the EU ever since we joined. |
I've said multiple times the Tories are making a pigs ear of it, it's not the point I am making.
"Labur are holding the governemtn to account on Brexit - you should watch Kier Starmer."
This is simple untrue, they aren't holding the government to account as they don't have a policy themselves. Can you explain why discussion of Brexit was banned at the Labour conference if they are in any way trying to hold the government to account?
Most of your other points are separate issues which have nothing to do with this thread.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:50 - Oct 17 with 3170 views | StokieBlue |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:36 - Oct 17 by caught-in-limbo |
Am I not allowed to ask you for your views on Brexit?
It seems a perfectly reasonable thing to ask in a thread about the topic.
I'm not demanding answers from you, I'm asking what your views on Brexit are.
You seem to have reacted very strongly to the simple question with your very flouncy "Why do you think it gives you the right to do that? "
Why all the mystery and subsequent over-reaction?
EDIT: And I have answered your question, twice. You just don't like my answer for some reason. [Post edited 17 Oct 2017 10:38]
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Well I guess you've answered the question by actually using a media source to support one of your subsequent arguments thus showing that your original point on the media not reporting on brexit was nonsense.
It's not mystery, I just don't have time for a long well constructed post on brexit right now. You'll want sources, footnotes, quotes, all treble-checked and signed off by an independent observer. I am not entirely sure what will happen with brexit, I suspect we will leave, likely with no fixed deal but things will eventually look pretty much like they did before we left.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:57 - Oct 17 with 3166 views | No9 |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:46 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
I've said multiple times the Tories are making a pigs ear of it, it's not the point I am making.
"Labur are holding the governemtn to account on Brexit - you should watch Kier Starmer."
This is simple untrue, they aren't holding the government to account as they don't have a policy themselves. Can you explain why discussion of Brexit was banned at the Labour conference if they are in any way trying to hold the government to account?
Most of your other points are separate issues which have nothing to do with this thread.
SB |
You still don't acknowledge this is a tory war that has been going on ever since Ted Heath signed up to the EU?
You still don'y acknowledge the tories are trying, daily, to usurp the HoP?
You would never accept they are game playing by allowing a useless brexiteer MP to lead wjile allowing the PM to interject occassionally just to show who's in charge ?
The difficulty for any opposition party in this mess is that Mr Cameron called a referendum on an in/ out basis and all the opposiiton parties thought it would be a walk over ignoring what was really going on and what the real intent was.
That is when the opposition parties failed had there been a number of caveats in the referendum or had the defeated party have resigned as they should have we might have has a completely different scenario now but we have what we have and it is what was deliberately set up.
I have no idea why labour banned discussing brexit at their party conference althiugh I take the view that none of the party conferences are anything more than a bunch of stage managed pranks & a PR exercise.
As an aside have you watched Keir Starmer in the HoP taking on the tories? | | | |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 11:05 - Oct 17 with 3156 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 10:50 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
Well I guess you've answered the question by actually using a media source to support one of your subsequent arguments thus showing that your original point on the media not reporting on brexit was nonsense.
It's not mystery, I just don't have time for a long well constructed post on brexit right now. You'll want sources, footnotes, quotes, all treble-checked and signed off by an independent observer. I am not entirely sure what will happen with brexit, I suspect we will leave, likely with no fixed deal but things will eventually look pretty much like they did before we left.
SB |
"Well I guess you've answered the question by actually using a media source to support one of your subsequent arguments thus showing that your original point on the media not reporting on brexit was nonsense.
You've changed the wording again. Yesterday you were using the word "expose" as I did. Now you've switched it to "report". This was your problem all along. I was saying that the press were not exposing stuff - you've spent lots of time getting in a flap about me thinking they're not reporting stuff. That's why I made a point of explaining what I meant be expose. You're having a bit of difficulty with simple words in this thread.
Thanks for your comments all the same about Brexit. You're saying it'll probably happen but nothing will really change. I suppose that has to be a soft brexit at a push, but in reality a brexit in name only.
Your view seems to be exactly as I described as "putty brexit" in one of my posts 3 or 4 months ago. [Post edited 17 Oct 2017 11:10]
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| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 11:26 - Oct 17 with 3142 views | WeWereZombies |
| 'Every time you think [Brexit] can’t get any worse, it does.' on 11:05 - Oct 17 by caught-in-limbo |
"Well I guess you've answered the question by actually using a media source to support one of your subsequent arguments thus showing that your original point on the media not reporting on brexit was nonsense.
You've changed the wording again. Yesterday you were using the word "expose" as I did. Now you've switched it to "report". This was your problem all along. I was saying that the press were not exposing stuff - you've spent lots of time getting in a flap about me thinking they're not reporting stuff. That's why I made a point of explaining what I meant be expose. You're having a bit of difficulty with simple words in this thread.
Thanks for your comments all the same about Brexit. You're saying it'll probably happen but nothing will really change. I suppose that has to be a soft brexit at a push, but in reality a brexit in name only.
Your view seems to be exactly as I described as "putty brexit" in one of my posts 3 or 4 months ago. [Post edited 17 Oct 2017 11:10]
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When is reporting not exposing? When the reader does not see a wrong in the situation being reported on?
When is exposing not reporting? When a situation is mis-reported?
When do these semantics matter? At the moment they do not matter a jot to me because not one of the pertinent questions I brought up in my original post has been tackled by the respondents. Please try and be less useless in future. [Post edited 17 Oct 2017 11:55]
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