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Police confirm they have given up 07:39 - Oct 17 with 26151 viewsblue_oyster

We will now be left to fight the evils of everyday crime on our own, as the police have finally confirmed what they have been doing for years -- ignoring the millions of crimes committed on our streets, leaving the old and vulnerable even more exposed and ensuring that our once civil society is over. Now they can justify even more their reasons for standing around with machine guns to 'protect us from terrorism'. What has gone wrong?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/16/low-level-crimes-to-go-uninvesti

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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Police confirm they have given up on 07:46 - Oct 17 with 11075 viewsTractorWood

I read it as they aren't going to substantively investigate trivial crimes. To be honest I'm a bit shocked this isn't already their approach if they're really stretched? Common sense isn't it?

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Police confirm they have given up on 07:52 - Oct 17 with 11050 viewsBackToRussia

Police confirm they have given up on 07:46 - Oct 17 by TractorWood

I read it as they aren't going to substantively investigate trivial crimes. To be honest I'm a bit shocked this isn't already their approach if they're really stretched? Common sense isn't it?


It's probably realistically been their approach but now they're being open about it.

Honestly I agree with them, most crimes are impossible to solve. Is there any point in being seen to be doing something when all you're actually doing is keeping up appearances.

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Police confirm they have given up on 09:15 - Oct 17 with 10901 viewsStokieBlue

Police confirm they have given up on 07:52 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

It's probably realistically been their approach but now they're being open about it.

Honestly I agree with them, most crimes are impossible to solve. Is there any point in being seen to be doing something when all you're actually doing is keeping up appearances.


It might be the reality but it's incredibly depressing.

SB

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Police confirm they have given up on 09:17 - Oct 17 with 10898 viewsblue_oyster

Police confirm they have given up on 07:46 - Oct 17 by TractorWood

I read it as they aren't going to substantively investigate trivial crimes. To be honest I'm a bit shocked this isn't already their approach if they're really stretched? Common sense isn't it?


It's only trivial if you are strong enough to protect yourself from this crime. Many are not, and the innocent are now prey to all sorts of unpleasant damage and violence, particularly in larger towns and cities. Police used to enforce law far more effectively with smaller numbers.

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Police confirm they have given up on 09:30 - Oct 17 with 10863 viewsNo9

As I posted some time ago we have no effective police force
It has been ongoing for sometime just getting worse
In 1987 our local police station was closed down, our reporting police station was nearly 30 miles away.
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Police confirm they have given up on 09:32 - Oct 17 with 10852 viewsPinewoodblue

Police confirm they have given up on 09:17 - Oct 17 by blue_oyster

It's only trivial if you are strong enough to protect yourself from this crime. Many are not, and the innocent are now prey to all sorts of unpleasant damage and violence, particularly in larger towns and cities. Police used to enforce law far more effectively with smaller numbers.


Think you have the "smaller numbers" bit wrong.

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Police confirm they have given up on 09:33 - Oct 17 with 10850 viewsTractorWood

Police confirm they have given up on 09:17 - Oct 17 by blue_oyster

It's only trivial if you are strong enough to protect yourself from this crime. Many are not, and the innocent are now prey to all sorts of unpleasant damage and violence, particularly in larger towns and cities. Police used to enforce law far more effectively with smaller numbers.


As SB says, it's incredibly depressing but it's just reality. What can reasonably expect the police to do that's a proportionate use of their time and resources for these types of crime?

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Police confirm they have given up on 09:41 - Oct 17 with 10833 viewsAxeldalai_lama

What's gone "wrong"?
There are now more areas of crime, and more reported crimes. More evidence needs to be collected in more advanced ways.
As always you seem to be acting as if things were better in the good old days when in reality they were just different. There were none of the myriad of cyber crimes we now have to deal with, terrorism, like it or not is a drain on resources, and most would say rightly so.
There are physically more of us.
So loads of reasons that things are stretched, oh and austerity clearly hasn't helped. Both directly and, for example, when cut in other areas like mental health the police are having to deal with things they didn't used to.

What do you think has gone "wrong"?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 9:43]
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Police confirm they have given up on 10:02 - Oct 17 with 10760 viewsBackToRussia

Police confirm they have given up on 09:17 - Oct 17 by blue_oyster

It's only trivial if you are strong enough to protect yourself from this crime. Many are not, and the innocent are now prey to all sorts of unpleasant damage and violence, particularly in larger towns and cities. Police used to enforce law far more effectively with smaller numbers.


Apparently murder solve rates have gone down about 20% over the last few decades even while we have more technology to help. it's put down to the breakdown in relations between police and community. The main way crimes were solved back in the day was essentially informants but obviously just people in the area who knew what was happening and who would tell the police.

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:08 - Oct 17 with 10741 viewsAxeldalai_lama

Police confirm they have given up on 10:02 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Apparently murder solve rates have gone down about 20% over the last few decades even while we have more technology to help. it's put down to the breakdown in relations between police and community. The main way crimes were solved back in the day was essentially informants but obviously just people in the area who knew what was happening and who would tell the police.


It does now seem the norm to dislike the police now for many people. Which I don't get at all. I can understand it from certain sections, who have maybe had run ins or from those targetted or wrongly accused, but many just have it as default setting for no reason.
My in laws are pretty "normal" middle class types but the way they go on about the police, you'd think they had run ins with them on a daily basis. I doubt they've needed the police or had much contact with them at all in the last 2 or 3 decades.
As you say this disconnect probably leads to people knowing things, or at least seeing things and not reporting out of some ridiculous dislike of the police.
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Police confirm they have given up on 10:14 - Oct 17 with 10735 viewsBlueBadger

Surely this is the sort of low-regulation, small-state reduction in nannying that was need on go-ahead Brexit Britain?

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:17 - Oct 17 with 10714 viewsAxeldalai_lama

Police confirm they have given up on 10:14 - Oct 17 by BlueBadger

Surely this is the sort of low-regulation, small-state reduction in nannying that was need on go-ahead Brexit Britain?


Depends if the crimes are reported by honest to goodness hard working English pensioners, or by leftie socialist snowflakes, surely?
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Police confirm they have given up on 10:20 - Oct 17 with 10699 viewsBackToRussia

Police confirm they have given up on 10:08 - Oct 17 by Axeldalai_lama

It does now seem the norm to dislike the police now for many people. Which I don't get at all. I can understand it from certain sections, who have maybe had run ins or from those targetted or wrongly accused, but many just have it as default setting for no reason.
My in laws are pretty "normal" middle class types but the way they go on about the police, you'd think they had run ins with them on a daily basis. I doubt they've needed the police or had much contact with them at all in the last 2 or 3 decades.
As you say this disconnect probably leads to people knowing things, or at least seeing things and not reporting out of some ridiculous dislike of the police.


Well to be honest I think people have reasons to be wary. The police forces of the 60s-80s probably did solve a lot but its also been shown that many forces were corrupt, racist etc

But its probably a symptom of a larger disconnect in civil society. The institutions which we once relied on people do not trust or believe in.

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:23 - Oct 17 with 10682 viewschicoazul

Police confirm they have given up on 07:46 - Oct 17 by TractorWood

I read it as they aren't going to substantively investigate trivial crimes. To be honest I'm a bit shocked this isn't already their approach if they're really stretched? Common sense isn't it?


Having your car nicked is not a trivial crime.

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:26 - Oct 17 with 10677 viewsBackToRussia

Police confirm they have given up on 10:23 - Oct 17 by chicoazul

Having your car nicked is not a trivial crime.


Sort of is


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Police confirm they have given up on 10:27 - Oct 17 with 10667 viewschicoazul

Police confirm they have given up on 10:26 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Sort of is



Well that's just, like, your opinion man

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:30 - Oct 17 with 10660 viewsTractorWood

Police confirm they have given up on 10:23 - Oct 17 by chicoazul

Having your car nicked is not a trivial crime.


I imagine car theft would probably be a caveat do their car crime rule. I assume they mean petty damage etc. Unless your car is worth under £50, of course.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 10:42]

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:37 - Oct 17 with 10629 viewschicoazul

Police confirm they have given up on 10:30 - Oct 17 by TractorWood

I imagine car theft would probably be a caveat do their car crime rule. I assume they mean petty damage etc. Unless your car is worth under £50, of course.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 10:42]


I'd hope so too but they may think well cars are insured so ultimately someone will be able to get a replacement.

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Police confirm they have given up on 10:40 - Oct 17 with 10628 viewsDarth_Koont

Police confirm they have given up on 10:20 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Well to be honest I think people have reasons to be wary. The police forces of the 60s-80s probably did solve a lot but its also been shown that many forces were corrupt, racist etc

But its probably a symptom of a larger disconnect in civil society. The institutions which we once relied on people do not trust or believe in.


Indeed. For example, far too many people dislike and distrust healthcare professionals and teachers - despite us members of the public knowing next to nothing about what's best for healthcare or education.

That's put added and unnecessary demands on these services at the same time as justifying some pretty barmy policy decisions. And all against the backdrop of austerity.

I read somewhere recently that teachers spend around 45%* of their week having to demonstrate that they are teaching through lesson planning, marking work and writing all manner of reports rather than actually teaching our kids. That's a shocking use of resources. When you add in that they also have to deal with kids' social situations more then the amount of actual teaching that goes on must be pretty minimal compared to what it once was.

*It was quoted as almost half their time which is what stuck in my mind but if anyone's got the accurate numbers then please share. Obviously there needs to be some planning, marking and reporting but there has to be a better balance if they're to perform their ultimate job.

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Police confirm they have given up on 11:00 - Oct 17 with 10578 viewsAxeldalai_lama

Police confirm they have given up on 10:40 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont

Indeed. For example, far too many people dislike and distrust healthcare professionals and teachers - despite us members of the public knowing next to nothing about what's best for healthcare or education.

That's put added and unnecessary demands on these services at the same time as justifying some pretty barmy policy decisions. And all against the backdrop of austerity.

I read somewhere recently that teachers spend around 45%* of their week having to demonstrate that they are teaching through lesson planning, marking work and writing all manner of reports rather than actually teaching our kids. That's a shocking use of resources. When you add in that they also have to deal with kids' social situations more then the amount of actual teaching that goes on must be pretty minimal compared to what it once was.

*It was quoted as almost half their time which is what stuck in my mind but if anyone's got the accurate numbers then please share. Obviously there needs to be some planning, marking and reporting but there has to be a better balance if they're to perform their ultimate job.


Exactly, it's a strange distinction that "joe public" seem to make a lot of the time. Teachers, healthcare professionals, police, and others are deemed worthy of dislike, distrust and are generally judged, whereas the armed forces and the fire brigade, for example, seem to be beyond reproach and pillars of society.
Seems an overall distrust of anyone with authority by many. I think it may be due to people skimming in and out of news reports, social media second hand accounts and exposees and not really giving much thought to the bigger picture and what the average health care professional/police/ teacher goes through. Along with not really having first hand experience of those professions.
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Police confirm they have given up on 11:01 - Oct 17 with 10576 viewsWeWereZombies

Police confirm they have given up on 10:02 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Apparently murder solve rates have gone down about 20% over the last few decades even while we have more technology to help. it's put down to the breakdown in relations between police and community. The main way crimes were solved back in the day was essentially informants but obviously just people in the area who knew what was happening and who would tell the police.


I'll take that with a pinch of salt, I would need to know how wrongful convictions rates had improved or deteriorated as well .

To try and find out I started here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Murder_rates_by_country

We should also ask if there are improved detection rates that could account for an allegation of lower solution (and therefore, hopefully, of conviction) rates. Anyway, this was interesting:

https://www.ft.com/content/76156310-fcc6-11dc-961e-000077b07658?mhq5j=e7

And have more concerted legal efforts thwarted an improvement in conviction rates (this assumes that a conviction is a solution, and I would contend that it is not if you bang up the wrong guy):

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/f

I would argue that, over time, if murder rates fall and police and legal efforts improve to prevent 'fitting up' or just mistaken convictions then you reach a point at which the crime rate, and I will not use the word acceptable, is close to as low as can be reasonably expected. The murders that do occur are probably going to be better planned and part of the intractable incidence of organised crime and human malevolence and are thus going to prove harder to solve.

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Police confirm they have given up on 11:05 - Oct 17 with 10559 viewsSuperfrans

Chronic under-funding.

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Police confirm they have given up on 11:13 - Oct 17 with 10536 viewsTractorWood

Police confirm they have given up on 11:05 - Oct 17 by Superfrans

Chronic under-funding.


Agreed. I want no expense spared in the investigation into my stolen plant pots.

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Police confirm they have given up on 11:27 - Oct 17 with 10512 viewsblue_oyster

Police confirm they have given up on 09:33 - Oct 17 by TractorWood

As SB says, it's incredibly depressing but it's just reality. What can reasonably expect the police to do that's a proportionate use of their time and resources for these types of crime?


Try and prevent crime by patrols. Very effective, and they've deliberately stopped doing this.

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Police confirm they have given up on 11:29 - Oct 17 with 10504 viewsblue_oyster

Police confirm they have given up on 10:02 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Apparently murder solve rates have gone down about 20% over the last few decades even while we have more technology to help. it's put down to the breakdown in relations between police and community. The main way crimes were solved back in the day was essentially informants but obviously just people in the area who knew what was happening and who would tell the police.


Very true. Police have lost touch with communities by withdrawing from the streets to sitting behind desks filling in forms.

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