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Raqqa has fallen 13:59 - Oct 17 with 9540 viewsGuthrum

According to Kurdish/Syrian forces the last pockets of resistance in the Islamic State's "capital" have been taken. That leaves only a few towns in the middle Euphrates valley under their control (which Assad's Syrian Army are rapidly advancing through).

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Raqqa has fallen on 14:03 - Oct 17 with 6840 viewshomer_123

Interesting though that IS fighters (albeit only local fighters, not those that have traveled from aborad) are being allowed to leave Raqqa and join other IS fighters elsewhere.

Part of a deal between the co-alition forces and the local Raqqa governement.

Also, worth noting, Raqqa has been pretty much levelled.

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Raqqa has fallen on 14:52 - Oct 17 with 6792 viewsGuthrum

Raqqa has fallen on 14:03 - Oct 17 by homer_123

Interesting though that IS fighters (albeit only local fighters, not those that have traveled from aborad) are being allowed to leave Raqqa and join other IS fighters elsewhere.

Part of a deal between the co-alition forces and the local Raqqa governement.

Also, worth noting, Raqqa has been pretty much levelled.


An uncompromising fight to the death would lead to more casualties on both sides and among the remaining civilians. And if it's just the rank-and-file, they're quite likely to simply go home.

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Raqqa has fallen on 14:54 - Oct 17 with 6771 viewsBackToRussia

Meantime Iraq is having a little to do with the Kurds.

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Raqqa has fallen on 15:12 - Oct 17 with 6735 viewsHARRY10

Raqqa has fallen on 14:54 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Meantime Iraq is having a little to do with the Kurds.


That was always going to be the case - given that whoever 'wins' gets control of a number of oilfields.

Which is really what ALL the fighting has been about. The diferent sects, tribes etc were nothing more than a means to divide folk so they fought on one or either of the sides.

This will only really end when the world has moved away from the use of oil.
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Raqqa has fallen on 15:20 - Oct 17 with 6728 viewshomer_123

Raqqa has fallen on 14:52 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

An uncompromising fight to the death would lead to more casualties on both sides and among the remaining civilians. And if it's just the rank-and-file, they're quite likely to simply go home.


There's been come coverage (trying to find links, certainly on R4) that suggest that this is far from ideal but you are right, if it allows less civilian deaths it is a good thing.

The main concern seems to be that by allowing said fighters to leave - its not that they will join other IS fighters to fight but look to re-establish IS again, ideologically.

The caliphate has ceased to exist....which is an excellent outcome.

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Raqqa has fallen on 16:12 - Oct 17 with 6668 viewsRadlett_blue

Raqqa has fallen on 15:20 - Oct 17 by homer_123

There's been come coverage (trying to find links, certainly on R4) that suggest that this is far from ideal but you are right, if it allows less civilian deaths it is a good thing.

The main concern seems to be that by allowing said fighters to leave - its not that they will join other IS fighters to fight but look to re-establish IS again, ideologically.

The caliphate has ceased to exist....which is an excellent outcome.


So - we now like Assad again, as his tyranny is preferable to IS.
Awkward place, the Middle East. Maybe some of the Western powers now realise that interfering & destabilising some countries is a huge error - see Iraq & Libya.

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Raqqa has fallen on 16:49 - Oct 17 with 6631 viewsBluesquid

Raqqa has fallen on 16:12 - Oct 17 by Radlett_blue

So - we now like Assad again, as his tyranny is preferable to IS.
Awkward place, the Middle East. Maybe some of the Western powers now realise that interfering & destabilising some countries is a huge error - see Iraq & Libya.


Well nearly half a million people have returned to their former lives under tyranny by returning to areas partly or wholly controlled by the Syrian goverment.

Only 7 % of Syrian refugees required 'tyrannical' Assad's removal from power in order for them to return.

Perhaps they know something that the Western media don't?
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Raqqa has fallen on 16:55 - Oct 17 with 6617 viewsGuthrum

Raqqa has fallen on 16:12 - Oct 17 by Radlett_blue

So - we now like Assad again, as his tyranny is preferable to IS.
Awkward place, the Middle East. Maybe some of the Western powers now realise that interfering & destabilising some countries is a huge error - see Iraq & Libya.


Depends whether you prefer to see the population being slaughtered by unpleasant dictators or fanatical insurgents. The outcome for ordinary civilians is pretty much the same.

There are few, if any, right answers. But do you try to improve the situation or just let it carry on?

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Raqqa has fallen on 16:55 - Oct 17 with 6621 viewsBluesquid

Fantasic news indeed!
With ISIS nearly eradicated it's almost mission accomplished for the US.
Not long now and when the last ISIS figher is killed/captured the US can dismantle it's military bases in Syria and go home.
They will do that then won't they?
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Raqqa has fallen on 17:00 - Oct 17 with 6609 viewsBluesquid

Raqqa has fallen on 16:55 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Depends whether you prefer to see the population being slaughtered by unpleasant dictators or fanatical insurgents. The outcome for ordinary civilians is pretty much the same.

There are few, if any, right answers. But do you try to improve the situation or just let it carry on?


Nearly half a million return to be slaughtered?

Only 7 percent of Syrian refugees require 'the slaughterer' to be removed from power in order for them to return?

Keep peddling the BS.
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Raqqa has fallen on 17:02 - Oct 17 with 6601 viewsGuthrum

Raqqa has fallen on 16:55 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

Fantasic news indeed!
With ISIS nearly eradicated it's almost mission accomplished for the US.
Not long now and when the last ISIS figher is killed/captured the US can dismantle it's military bases in Syria and go home.
They will do that then won't they?


No, quite possibly they'll retain facilities (e.g. in the south) to continue supporting the rebel groups they were backing before IS appeared on the scene. Or they might pull out to save money. Or Trump might keep them as bases to attack Iran.

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Raqqa has fallen on 17:12 - Oct 17 with 6588 viewsGuthrum

Raqqa has fallen on 17:00 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

Nearly half a million return to be slaughtered?

Only 7 percent of Syrian refugees require 'the slaughterer' to be removed from power in order for them to return?

Keep peddling the BS.


Who are those half-million (not that large a proportion of the 6m internally displaced and 5m who have fled abroad) and to where are they returning? Maybe they think Assad will go back to just being authoritarian rather than actually shooting protestors or using poison gas?

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Raqqa has fallen on 17:23 - Oct 17 with 6561 viewsBluesquid

Raqqa has fallen on 17:12 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Who are those half-million (not that large a proportion of the 6m internally displaced and 5m who have fled abroad) and to where are they returning? Maybe they think Assad will go back to just being authoritarian rather than actually shooting protestors or using poison gas?


Syrian refugees that have returned to areas partially or wholly under Syrian goverment control.

"Maybe they think Assad will go back to just being authoritarian rather than actually shooting protestors or using poison gas? "

lol, now come on, that's quite a risk to be taking considering what the Western media have told us about the chemical weapon, cremitorium using, civilian slaughtering monster Assad isn't it?

Perhaps the Western media have been telling us porky pies and these refugees know the real story?

I mean, only 7 percent required the removal of Assad from power in order for them to return.

Doesn't really tally with the BS that has been peddled does it?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 17:31]
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Raqqa has fallen on 17:52 - Oct 17 with 6511 viewsRadlett_blue

Raqqa has fallen on 16:55 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Depends whether you prefer to see the population being slaughtered by unpleasant dictators or fanatical insurgents. The outcome for ordinary civilians is pretty much the same.

There are few, if any, right answers. But do you try to improve the situation or just let it carry on?


The West's interventions in the Middles East have nearly all been disastrous. How can you transform what has often been an artificially created "country", with huge tribal & religious divisions, into a unified state? These places have had no democracy for years, if at all & have no history of democracy or political institutions. No, I don't have an answer, but interfering has largely made life worse for most & led to lawless, failed states.

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Raqqa has fallen on 19:40 - Oct 17 with 6444 viewsGuthrum

Raqqa has fallen on 17:23 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

Syrian refugees that have returned to areas partially or wholly under Syrian goverment control.

"Maybe they think Assad will go back to just being authoritarian rather than actually shooting protestors or using poison gas? "

lol, now come on, that's quite a risk to be taking considering what the Western media have told us about the chemical weapon, cremitorium using, civilian slaughtering monster Assad isn't it?

Perhaps the Western media have been telling us porky pies and these refugees know the real story?

I mean, only 7 percent required the removal of Assad from power in order for them to return.

Doesn't really tally with the BS that has been peddled does it?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 17:31]


Some of the refugees will have been pro-Assad (e.g. Alawite Shia) and fleeing the rebels - who are often pretty fond of massacres and atrocities themselves - or the violently anti-Shia Islamic State.

Where does this 7% figure come from? How has anyone done a balanced, reliable survey of a refugee population spread over many countries?

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Raqqa has fallen on 19:49 - Oct 17 with 6442 viewsGuthrum

Raqqa has fallen on 17:52 - Oct 17 by Radlett_blue

The West's interventions in the Middles East have nearly all been disastrous. How can you transform what has often been an artificially created "country", with huge tribal & religious divisions, into a unified state? These places have had no democracy for years, if at all & have no history of democracy or political institutions. No, I don't have an answer, but interfering has largely made life worse for most & led to lawless, failed states.


That encapsulates a lot of the problems involved in these situations - and why rulers strong enough to survive (often having come to power through coups and murder) end up resorting to violently repressive actions to keep themselves and their faction at the top of the pile.

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Raqqa has fallen on 20:09 - Oct 17 with 6415 viewsBluesquid

Raqqa has fallen on 19:40 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Some of the refugees will have been pro-Assad (e.g. Alawite Shia) and fleeing the rebels - who are often pretty fond of massacres and atrocities themselves - or the violently anti-Shia Islamic State.

Where does this 7% figure come from? How has anyone done a balanced, reliable survey of a refugee population spread over many countries?


That 7% figure comes from an article from Russia Today.
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Raqqa has fallen on 20:14 - Oct 17 with 6406 viewsGlasgowBlue

Raqqa has fallen on 20:09 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

That 7% figure comes from an article from Russia Today.



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Raqqa has fallen on 20:18 - Oct 17 with 6398 viewsSpruceMoose

Raqqa has fallen on 20:14 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue



This is a good Gif. I shall bookmark it. Thank you.

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Raqqa has fallen on 20:34 - Oct 17 with 6381 viewsBluesquid

Raqqa has fallen on 20:14 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue



Oh....ok.....what a shame.
You won't accept it from Russia Today then?

Where would you accept it from then?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 20:34]
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Raqqa has fallen on 20:37 - Oct 17 with 6372 viewsSpruceMoose

Raqqa has fallen on 20:34 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

Oh....ok.....what a shame.
You won't accept it from Russia Today then?

Where would you accept it from then?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 20:34]


I reckon he'd accept the Telegraph.

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Raqqa has fallen on 22:48 - Oct 17 with 6315 viewsGlasgowBlue

Raqqa has fallen on 20:34 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

Oh....ok.....what a shame.
You won't accept it from Russia Today then?

Where would you accept it from then?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 20:34]


UNHCR , Amnesty International.

Certainly not Putin's propaganda chanel.

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Raqqa has fallen on 22:48 - Oct 17 with 6313 viewsGlasgowBlue

Raqqa has fallen on 20:37 - Oct 17 by SpruceMoose

I reckon he'd accept the Telegraph.


Guido.

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Raqqa has fallen on 23:43 - Oct 17 with 6279 viewsjeera

Raqqa has fallen on 20:34 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

Oh....ok.....what a shame.
You won't accept it from Russia Today then?

Where would you accept it from then?
[Post edited 17 Oct 2017 20:34]


Pazelle?

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Raqqa has fallen on 23:47 - Oct 17 with 6277 viewsjeera

Raqqa has fallen on 19:40 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Some of the refugees will have been pro-Assad (e.g. Alawite Shia) and fleeing the rebels - who are often pretty fond of massacres and atrocities themselves - or the violently anti-Shia Islamic State.

Where does this 7% figure come from? How has anyone done a balanced, reliable survey of a refugee population spread over many countries?


Where does this 7% figure come from?

Exit poll?

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