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We like to think of ourselves as a progressive and open-minded society, whilst the reality is anything but. Libero has pointed out the example of Facebook, which continually reinforces the opinions, beliefs, political ideologies and values that you already hold. That's far from open-mindedness. In fact, we have a society that promotes open-mindedness but creates close-mindedness.
These "hard held" views seem to be (in my subjective opinion) creating a society that is more divided, not together. I've come across strongly-held views in the last two years that have shocked me to the core. Obviously, I am also inherently bias. But I feel views that promote importance of family name over incest/abuse etc abhorrent. Yet many, many people hold these fixed views and are hardly likely to get free of them.
I don't know how many of you here have seen that awful (yet somewhat likeable) movie called "Idiocracy". I don't remember the whole plot, but in a nutshell a guy gets frozen or something in time and wakes up 100/200 years later to find that the human species has devolved. Wouldn't shock me to find that this is actually happening in reality. We become more reliant on technology to answer questions for us...even that new machine that can make you speak a foreign language without needing to learn it. I see a future with a few very intelligent people at the top, monitoring and maintaining computer technology...whilst the average Jo needs to do very little (including learning). As far as I remember, in the movie technology starts to break down and nobody knows how to fix it. I know it's pessimistic, but I think this is the beginning of that future.
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 07:12 - Oct 18 with 6036 views
I can see the value of some of those things if (key phrase here) applied 'correctly' - victims of sexual assault for example often suffer from PTSD and and an appropriate 'heads up' prior to potentially difficult sessions seems only fair but the far extreme of the 'just bantz' argument is pure lunacy as far as I can see. Much as I loathe the phrase 'common sense'(mainly because the people claiming to be in possession of it almost inevitably don't have any) is the way to go here.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2017 7:12]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 07:12 - Oct 18 by BlueBadger
I can see the value of some of those things if (key phrase here) applied 'correctly' - victims of sexual assault for example often suffer from PTSD and and an appropriate 'heads up' prior to potentially difficult sessions seems only fair but the far extreme of the 'just bantz' argument is pure lunacy as far as I can see. Much as I loathe the phrase 'common sense'(mainly because the people claiming to be in possession of it almost inevitably don't have any) is the way to go here.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2017 7:12]
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 08:25 - Oct 18 with 5949 views
I didn't watch it, but there was a good Seriously podcast on it a few months ago but can't find it - Safe Standing, No Platforming etc.
The head of the NUS, or President can't remember, came across as the sort of person who no-one would ever speak to for risk of offending her with anything they said - think she'd just 'No Platformed' Germaine Greer and had a bit of publicity.
Academic institutions are supposed to be about free speech and learning - not just replicating social media echo chambers. These sort of people are never going to contribute meaningfully to wider society because no-one will employ them because they are just pains in the arris who will never understand the natural order of things*
*That when they start work, or anything, they won't be the boss, no-one will care about their opinion and respect will have to be earned as they progress and climb the greasy pole. They'll never get themselves in a position to make a difference when real life starts
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 08:25 - Oct 18 by itfcjoe
I didn't watch it, but there was a good Seriously podcast on it a few months ago but can't find it - Safe Standing, No Platforming etc.
The head of the NUS, or President can't remember, came across as the sort of person who no-one would ever speak to for risk of offending her with anything they said - think she'd just 'No Platformed' Germaine Greer and had a bit of publicity.
Academic institutions are supposed to be about free speech and learning - not just replicating social media echo chambers. These sort of people are never going to contribute meaningfully to wider society because no-one will employ them because they are just pains in the arris who will never understand the natural order of things*
*That when they start work, or anything, they won't be the boss, no-one will care about their opinion and respect will have to be earned as they progress and climb the greasy pole. They'll never get themselves in a position to make a difference when real life starts
[Post edited 18 Oct 2017 8:26]
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 08:46 - Oct 18 with 5913 views
Some people might be interested in this short speech about safe spaces, made at Oxford University. The John Milton quote should be taught in all schools today, but I rather sadly suspect that it is not.
They don't seem to see it that way though. They don't think they are at university to have their views challenged but to learn things they agree with in a comfortable and non-challenging setting.
This is total nonsense and will result in them being "kidults" with no grasp of reality or the real world. Outside their institutions they will be challenged by people everyday who will refuse to sanitise things because it may hurt their sensibilities.
One of the most telling points was the woman who said she paid 10k a year to study and thus they should basically do as she asks with regards to safe spaces etc. A thoroughly bizarre viewpoint given she is actually paying 10k to be taught stuff she doesn't already know and to be challenged on her own viewpoints.
If you want to see one possible logical extension to this then check this out - it's total madness:
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 09:06 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue
They don't seem to see it that way though. They don't think they are at university to have their views challenged but to learn things they agree with in a comfortable and non-challenging setting.
This is total nonsense and will result in them being "kidults" with no grasp of reality or the real world. Outside their institutions they will be challenged by people everyday who will refuse to sanitise things because it may hurt their sensibilities.
One of the most telling points was the woman who said she paid 10k a year to study and thus they should basically do as she asks with regards to safe spaces etc. A thoroughly bizarre viewpoint given she is actually paying 10k to be taught stuff she doesn't already know and to be challenged on her own viewpoints.
If you want to see one possible logical extension to this then check this out - it's total madness:
I've just watched the video I linked to again and it actually makes my brain hurt.
I've rarely seen such stupidity.
By saying that "it's not true that people can send lightning at people" he was asked to apologise for breaking the rules of the safe-space. He was forced to apologise or be thrown out even though in the same sentence she said it was a progressive space where people can voice their opinions.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 09:23 - Oct 18 with 5822 views
"It plays into the right wing attitude of 'snowflakes' and that 'millenials' are all entitled leftist bellends that don't really understand what they're campaigning or complaining about."
In all fairness, the video that was in Stokies link gives a pretty strong arguement for that kind of thinking...
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 09:19 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue
I've just watched the video I linked to again and it actually makes my brain hurt.
I've rarely seen such stupidity.
By saying that "it's not true that people can send lightning at people" he was asked to apologise for breaking the rules of the safe-space. He was forced to apologise or be thrown out even though in the same sentence she said it was a progressive space where people can voice their opinions.
SB
I watched the video and it seems pretty straight forward. The guy broke the already agreed-upon rules of the discussion. It was not so much about people shouting him down because he said people can't shoot lightning out of their fingers as it was about him breaking the rules of engagement. Entirely fair enough. And having watched the discussion after the Newsnight piece I thought everyone made pretty good points. I don't disagree the Paris Lees is a trenchant dickhead who made a stupid point about ticket sales but she also made a good point about asking for examples of changes to teaching in Unis due to imposition of the new goodthink. If the end result of this new cultural position is that people are kinder and more understanding to one another that will be a good thing, if the end result is people communicate badly with each other because they are afraid of saying what they actually think that will be a bad thing. But the larger point about how Unis should be the place where people are challenged and have to confront views they disagree with is absolutely correct.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 12:12 - Oct 18 with 5630 views
That's a good article with some good sense talked by Jones.
However this is the problem and shows the worrying trend:
"they proposed setting up a censorship committee to vet speakers in order to make sure that “disempowered groups” would be protected from ideas and speech they find offensive and harmful."
Censorship committee! What on earth is happening to the world.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 12:41 - Oct 18 with 5572 views
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 12:12 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue
That's a good article with some good sense talked by Jones.
However this is the problem and shows the worrying trend:
"they proposed setting up a censorship committee to vet speakers in order to make sure that “disempowered groups” would be protected from ideas and speech they find offensive and harmful."
Censorship committee! What on earth is happening to the world.
SB
My views on this have been well expressed already in this thread.
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 00:32 - Oct 18 by TonyHumesIpswich
We like to think of ourselves as a progressive and open-minded society, whilst the reality is anything but. Libero has pointed out the example of Facebook, which continually reinforces the opinions, beliefs, political ideologies and values that you already hold. That's far from open-mindedness. In fact, we have a society that promotes open-mindedness but creates close-mindedness.
These "hard held" views seem to be (in my subjective opinion) creating a society that is more divided, not together. I've come across strongly-held views in the last two years that have shocked me to the core. Obviously, I am also inherently bias. But I feel views that promote importance of family name over incest/abuse etc abhorrent. Yet many, many people hold these fixed views and are hardly likely to get free of them.
I don't know how many of you here have seen that awful (yet somewhat likeable) movie called "Idiocracy". I don't remember the whole plot, but in a nutshell a guy gets frozen or something in time and wakes up 100/200 years later to find that the human species has devolved. Wouldn't shock me to find that this is actually happening in reality. We become more reliant on technology to answer questions for us...even that new machine that can make you speak a foreign language without needing to learn it. I see a future with a few very intelligent people at the top, monitoring and maintaining computer technology...whilst the average Jo needs to do very little (including learning). As far as I remember, in the movie technology starts to break down and nobody knows how to fix it. I know it's pessimistic, but I think this is the beginning of that future.
I've seen Idiocracy, thought the premise was quite clever and also relevant. Their crops were failing because they were being irrigated with gatorade (or some fictional equiv) rather than water!
The initial set up is based on the fact that well educated, civilised people are no longer reproducing in any significant number, unlike the white trash who breed like rabbits. Which is scarily accurate.
Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 10:27 - Oct 18 by chicoazul
I watched the video and it seems pretty straight forward. The guy broke the already agreed-upon rules of the discussion. It was not so much about people shouting him down because he said people can't shoot lightning out of their fingers as it was about him breaking the rules of engagement. Entirely fair enough. And having watched the discussion after the Newsnight piece I thought everyone made pretty good points. I don't disagree the Paris Lees is a trenchant dickhead who made a stupid point about ticket sales but she also made a good point about asking for examples of changes to teaching in Unis due to imposition of the new goodthink. If the end result of this new cultural position is that people are kinder and more understanding to one another that will be a good thing, if the end result is people communicate badly with each other because they are afraid of saying what they actually think that will be a bad thing. But the larger point about how Unis should be the place where people are challenged and have to confront views they disagree with is absolutely correct.
I've not watched the video but pretty much agree with that. I totally see the need for safe spaces for people and groups that need them, but don't for a second (and suspect most people supportive of them as a principle are the same) think that means that society itself could or should be a safe space at all times.
On a similar and partly-related topic, a really good discussion on this mornings R4 Today programme (last half hour if people want to listen back) on gender. I consider myself a wooly liberal in general, but struggle a bit with the topic, largely through a lack of experience and understanding, and felt that I learnt a lot.
TWTD Cycling Herbert
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Watching tonight's Newsnight, the opening story about 'safe spaces' has me SMH on 13:24 - Oct 18 with 5475 views
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