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Oh dear... 16:51 - Nov 14 with 1644 viewsStokieBlue

Not great fake news from the Russians this time:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/14/russia-us-isis-syria-video-game-st

SB

Nothing else needed

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Oh dear... on 16:53 - Nov 14 with 1141 viewshype313

This will be conveniently missed by someone...

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Oh dear... on 18:20 - Nov 14 with 1067 viewsBlueBadger

I'm sure that there's a youtube video that explains EVERYTHING here.

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Oh dear... on 19:36 - Nov 14 with 1030 viewsblue_oyster

So much propaganda, and so little evidence from all sides involved. Hopefully people will get wise to these pretexts for war, and stop voting for the governments who indulge in them.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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Oh dear... on 19:44 - Nov 14 with 1006 viewsSteve_M

Oh dear... on 19:36 - Nov 14 by blue_oyster

So much propaganda, and so little evidence from all sides involved. Hopefully people will get wise to these pretexts for war, and stop voting for the governments who indulge in them.


A bit tricky doing that in Russia next year really.

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Oh dear... on 20:18 - Nov 14 with 959 viewsblue_oyster

Oh dear... on 19:44 - Nov 14 by Steve_M

A bit tricky doing that in Russia next year really.


But no excuse here though.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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Oh dear... on 22:32 - Nov 14 with 898 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 18:20 - Nov 14 by BlueBadger

I'm sure that there's a youtube video that explains EVERYTHING here.


It looks like Putin has now infiltrated the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret

Exposing the real Fake News http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2014/white_paper.pdf
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Oh dear... on 22:37 - Nov 14 with 887 viewslowhouseblue

Oh dear... on 22:32 - Nov 14 by caught-in-limbo

It looks like Putin has now infiltrated the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret


i think you were really looking for this bbc article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41982569

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Oh dear... on 22:39 - Nov 14 with 879 viewsSwansea_Blue

Oops. Although in defence some people take video games very seriously. It literally is real life for many.

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Oh dear... on 22:46 - Nov 14 with 861 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 22:37 - Nov 14 by lowhouseblue

i think you were really looking for this bbc article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41982569


I'm not sure why the BBC has suddenly decided to show a bit of honesty concerning Syria in that report I posted.

Do you have any idea why?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret

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Oh dear... on 23:16 - Nov 14 with 831 viewsgiant_ullaa

Oh dear... on 22:46 - Nov 14 by caught-in-limbo

I'm not sure why the BBC has suddenly decided to show a bit of honesty concerning Syria in that report I posted.

Do you have any idea why?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret


Corporate media hey?

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Oh dear... on 23:17 - Nov 14 with 830 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 23:16 - Nov 14 by giant_ullaa

Corporate media hey?


State media actually, but never mind.

I can find provide you with plenty of other news sources which have been reporting the same thing for weeks, but not in the Guardian, Independent, Telegraph or Times.

What do you think of the article?

Fake news?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret
[Post edited 14 Nov 23:43]

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Oh dear... on 23:26 - Nov 14 with 826 viewscaught-in-limbo

This article is also far closer to what I've been saying about Syria since 2011 than anything that's been reported in the UK press.

It seems there was a secret CIA operation going on after all. Crikey. More fake news?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-tr

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Oh dear... on 23:41 - Nov 14 with 810 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 18:20 - Nov 14 by BlueBadger

I'm sure that there's a youtube video that explains EVERYTHING here.


You've not commented on my BBC link. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Please read it, there's some pretty startling revelations for people who didn't know about this over a month ago - before the BBC "uncovered" the story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret

Perhaps you're serious, and you do actually prefer your news in YouTube format for thickos.

Here's a short one:

[Post edited 14 Nov 23:44]

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Oh dear... on 23:53 - Nov 14 with 778 viewsgiant_ullaa

Oh dear... on 23:17 - Nov 14 by caught-in-limbo

State media actually, but never mind.

I can find provide you with plenty of other news sources which have been reporting the same thing for weeks, but not in the Guardian, Independent, Telegraph or Times.

What do you think of the article?

Fake news?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret
[Post edited 14 Nov 23:43]


I thought it was fascinating and seemed to be fair, not that I know much to be able to judge. The conflicting priorities of the Americans and Kurdish(?) was never something I'd have understood without reading it.

It was surprising to me that the kpg (forgive me if I'm wrong but this is from memory) got to choose whether to let Isis leave or fight on. Also that the US honored that choice by not bombing the convoy down the road a bit.

So what about you? Was it any good?

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Oh dear... on 23:59 - Nov 14 with 770 viewsStokieBlue

Oh dear... on 22:46 - Nov 14 by caught-in-limbo

I'm not sure why the BBC has suddenly decided to show a bit of honesty concerning Syria in that report I posted.

Do you have any idea why?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret


"The deal to let IS fighters escape from Raqqa – de facto capital of their self-declared caliphate – had been arranged by local officials. It came after four months of fighting that left the city obliterated and almost devoid of people. It would spare lives and bring fighting to an end. The lives of the Arab, Kurdish and other fighters opposing IS would be spared."

This wasn't really secret was it? I seem to remember it being reported previously. They made a deal to try and stop the house to house fighting in a town which would have cost a lot more lives. What would have been your preference? Level the place and ensure every IS fighter as well as anyone else in the town was killed?

I suspect if they had flattened the place in door to door fighting and it resulted in loads or deaths including civilians you'd have had a good long moan about that as well.

SB
[Post edited 15 Nov 0:00]

Nothing else needed

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Oh dear... on 00:02 - Nov 15 with 764 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 23:53 - Nov 14 by giant_ullaa

I thought it was fascinating and seemed to be fair, not that I know much to be able to judge. The conflicting priorities of the Americans and Kurdish(?) was never something I'd have understood without reading it.

It was surprising to me that the kpg (forgive me if I'm wrong but this is from memory) got to choose whether to let Isis leave or fight on. Also that the US honored that choice by not bombing the convoy down the road a bit.

So what about you? Was it any good?


It was very good for the BBC and is a dramatic departure from the line they have been reporting on for the last 6 and a half years.

I laughed at the fact they state that they "uncovered" the story which was reported in other media outlets over a month ago.

I'm trying to work out the reasons for the change in stance. I suspect it will be a one off - this occasionally happens (like with the NYP article I linked earlier) - they print something honest so if/when the truth is ever finally outed, they can point back to where they first reported the facts, in order to save face.

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Oh dear... on 00:04 - Nov 15 with 759 viewsStokieBlue

Oh dear... on 00:02 - Nov 15 by caught-in-limbo

It was very good for the BBC and is a dramatic departure from the line they have been reporting on for the last 6 and a half years.

I laughed at the fact they state that they "uncovered" the story which was reported in other media outlets over a month ago.

I'm trying to work out the reasons for the change in stance. I suspect it will be a one off - this occasionally happens (like with the NYP article I linked earlier) - they print something honest so if/when the truth is ever finally outed, they can point back to where they first reported the facts, in order to save face.


Didn't mean to down-vote - apologies.

I don't agree with the last paragraph though, it's pointing to it all being a grand conspiracy.

SB

Nothing else needed

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Oh dear... on 00:13 - Nov 15 with 746 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 00:04 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue

Didn't mean to down-vote - apologies.

I don't agree with the last paragraph though, it's pointing to it all being a grand conspiracy.

SB


Well it pretty much is. Former French Foreign Minister Roland Dumas pretty much says it was here:



The war in Syria was never really what we have been told it was: "a peaceful protest by ordinary "Arab Spring" Syrians who were forced to take up arms following a brutal crackdown by their leader which lead to a civil war."

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Oh dear... on 00:44 - Nov 15 with 728 viewsBluesquid

Oh dear... on 23:59 - Nov 14 by StokieBlue

"The deal to let IS fighters escape from Raqqa – de facto capital of their self-declared caliphate – had been arranged by local officials. It came after four months of fighting that left the city obliterated and almost devoid of people. It would spare lives and bring fighting to an end. The lives of the Arab, Kurdish and other fighters opposing IS would be spared."

This wasn't really secret was it? I seem to remember it being reported previously. They made a deal to try and stop the house to house fighting in a town which would have cost a lot more lives. What would have been your preference? Level the place and ensure every IS fighter as well as anyone else in the town was killed?

I suspect if they had flattened the place in door to door fighting and it resulted in loads or deaths including civilians you'd have had a good long moan about that as well.

SB
[Post edited 15 Nov 0:00]


What if some of these psychos make their way via Turkey through Europe into the UK?

Doesn't that worry you?

Manchester Arena, London Bridge and Westminster, Barcelona, Stockholm, Brussels, Paris, Berlin.

There were other options available rather than flattening the place, best thing to have done would of been to cut the deal then stitch them up when they are about to leave or were on their way.

Cutting deals with ISIS and treating wounded jihadi extremists including those affiliated to Al-Qaida, who would of thought it, eh?

People really need to wake up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/priti-patel-israel-golan-heights-al-nusra-sy
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Oh dear... on 05:34 - Nov 15 with 678 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 00:44 - Nov 15 by Bluesquid

What if some of these psychos make their way via Turkey through Europe into the UK?

Doesn't that worry you?

Manchester Arena, London Bridge and Westminster, Barcelona, Stockholm, Brussels, Paris, Berlin.

There were other options available rather than flattening the place, best thing to have done would of been to cut the deal then stitch them up when they are about to leave or were on their way.

Cutting deals with ISIS and treating wounded jihadi extremists including those affiliated to Al-Qaida, who would of thought it, eh?

People really need to wake up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/priti-patel-israel-golan-heights-al-nusra-sy


There's a couple of paragraphs in the BBC article I linked which deal with exactly that point:

"Disillusioned, weary of the constant fighting and fearing for his life, Abu Basir decided to leave for the safety of Idlib. He now lives in the city.

He was part of an almost exclusively French group within IS, and before he left some of his fellow fighters were given a new mission.

There are some French brothers from our group who left for France to carry out attacks in what would be called a ‘day of reckoning.’”"


As for your point about Al Nusra fighters receiving treatment from Israeli medical staff in the Golan:

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounde



But things like this simply don't fit with the endlessly repeated official line and causes too much cognitive dissonance so it's better forgotten or dismissed as fake news - depending on the source.

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Oh dear... on 08:23 - Nov 15 with 617 viewsbluewein

Oh dear... on 00:13 - Nov 15 by caught-in-limbo

Well it pretty much is. Former French Foreign Minister Roland Dumas pretty much says it was here:



The war in Syria was never really what we have been told it was: "a peaceful protest by ordinary "Arab Spring" Syrians who were forced to take up arms following a brutal crackdown by their leader which lead to a civil war."


Heh.

What a Dumas...

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Oh dear... on 08:44 - Nov 15 with 582 viewsWeWereZombies

Oh dear... on 05:34 - Nov 15 by caught-in-limbo

There's a couple of paragraphs in the BBC article I linked which deal with exactly that point:

"Disillusioned, weary of the constant fighting and fearing for his life, Abu Basir decided to leave for the safety of Idlib. He now lives in the city.

He was part of an almost exclusively French group within IS, and before he left some of his fellow fighters were given a new mission.

There are some French brothers from our group who left for France to carry out attacks in what would be called a ‘day of reckoning.’”"


As for your point about Al Nusra fighters receiving treatment from Israeli medical staff in the Golan:

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounde



But things like this simply don't fit with the endlessly repeated official line and causes too much cognitive dissonance so it's better forgotten or dismissed as fake news - depending on the source.


A picture paints a thousand words, eh? Netanyahu comes across a lot better in that one than another premier in another photo:


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Oh dear... on 09:20 - Nov 15 with 554 viewsStokieBlue

Oh dear... on 00:44 - Nov 15 by Bluesquid

What if some of these psychos make their way via Turkey through Europe into the UK?

Doesn't that worry you?

Manchester Arena, London Bridge and Westminster, Barcelona, Stockholm, Brussels, Paris, Berlin.

There were other options available rather than flattening the place, best thing to have done would of been to cut the deal then stitch them up when they are about to leave or were on their way.

Cutting deals with ISIS and treating wounded jihadi extremists including those affiliated to Al-Qaida, who would of thought it, eh?

People really need to wake up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/priti-patel-israel-golan-heights-al-nusra-sy


"There were other options available rather than flattening the place, best thing to have done would of been to cut the deal then stitch them up when they are about to leave or were on their way. "

You think that's the way the west should go about things?

I agree, there are concerns with letting them go but it was clearly a judgement call on what type of causalities would have occurred fighting them to the death in the town. I haven't said I agree with it, I don't really know my position, not given it enough thought. I do however see why they thought it was a good possible option.

SB

Nothing else needed

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Oh dear... on 09:39 - Nov 15 with 527 viewscaught-in-limbo

Oh dear... on 08:44 - Nov 15 by WeWereZombies

A picture paints a thousand words, eh? Netanyahu comes across a lot better in that one than another premier in another photo:



Ah, Mr Bouazizi, the man whose act of self-immolation kick started the "Arab Spring".

Who has benefited most from that?

#sceptical
[Post edited 15 Nov 9:49]

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Oh dear... on 09:53 - Nov 15 with 510 viewsJ2BLUE

Oh dear... on 23:59 - Nov 14 by StokieBlue

"The deal to let IS fighters escape from Raqqa – de facto capital of their self-declared caliphate – had been arranged by local officials. It came after four months of fighting that left the city obliterated and almost devoid of people. It would spare lives and bring fighting to an end. The lives of the Arab, Kurdish and other fighters opposing IS would be spared."

This wasn't really secret was it? I seem to remember it being reported previously. They made a deal to try and stop the house to house fighting in a town which would have cost a lot more lives. What would have been your preference? Level the place and ensure every IS fighter as well as anyone else in the town was killed?

I suspect if they had flattened the place in door to door fighting and it resulted in loads or deaths including civilians you'd have had a good long moan about that as well.

SB
[Post edited 15 Nov 0:00]


Agreed, it was reported ages ago. I seem to remember Guthrum giving a decent explanation of why it happened.

Like you, i'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand I wonder why the convoy wasn't bombed as the Americans surely aren't shy about breaking a promise to ISIS. On the other hand it might have been a deliberate move to show other ISIS fighters there was a way out. Who knows how many deaths this prevented in Raqqa and elsewhere where other fighters could have caused all sorts of problems down the line by doing maximum damage before certain death. This might have been one where the uncomfortable choice was the right one.

I think it's all too easy for some on here to say the city should have been flattened. It would have had to have been the Kurdish and other forces fighting ISIS for us to have taken the fall and lost lots of lives. We owe them a lot.

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